Axes Axes Axes

[Hjarki]

This would be good to know.

Virtually all of the dps benefit from what can be reached in Kensai comes from Opportunity Attack and One With the Blade. Opportunity Attack is ~15 Melee Power, so you'll probably get ~16% more damage from Melee Power. Deadly Strike will add ~2%. So it's awfully close between Kensai/FB. Probably the single biggest boost from one ability is Exploit Weaknesses, so you could probably go with 5 - 6 levels of Bard and get comparable damage over time by using the Swashbuckler T5. However, the Vanguard T5 isn't horrible if your main concern is getting the Shield Bash 'stuns' (AE trip in this case) and are willing to take a bit of a damage hit for it.

So I think the FB approach can be matched with just Bard/Fighter abilities for continuous damage (although the additional +1 multiplier is fantastic for burst abilities).

More damage definitely makes sense but i think the stuns are the other great thing about shields as a weapon as well as AC and other goodies.

AC isn't going to be particularly meaningful on a Swashbuckler because there aren't enough ways to get those massive bonuses you get with Heavy Armor/Tower Shield builds.

In terms of Stuns, once you start including Bard in the mix, Frozen Fury is far better than anything Vanguard brings to the table in terms of stuns. A Vanguard can (with luck) keep Undead and Constructs locked down semi-permanently. A Bard can do it reliably. However, that's a different path than what we're talking about.

Mostly for AA clerics for paralyzing arrows i believe.

My note on Falconry was more related to how unusual it is for abilities such as these to apply to shields. As far as I can tell, the T5 Barbarian critical modifiers are the only such modifiers that apply to shields without explicitly mentioning shields. Likewise, the Falconry Wisdom for attack/damage are the only ways to use another stat with Shields (other than Different Tack for damage). For example, you could do something like a 14 Cleric/6 Fighter build with T5 Vanguard that could Dire Charge (15 sec cooldown), tumble backwards, Shield Charge (12 sec cooldown), tumble backwards, Feral Charge (15 second cooldown), tumble backwards, Shield Rush (25 sec cooldown). While only one of those is a helpless effect and one of them doesn't stun/trip at all, it's still an amusing way to Cleave.

And that brings about this question: What is the effectiveness of stunning with this build compared to fighter VG?

In terms of actual stunning (helpless effect), almost certainly worse. I see it being more an issue of the supplemental CC being tossed around. The Bard approach brings Guardbreaking, Overbalance and potentially Elegant Footwork to the table, so you can keep enemies around you Dazed and Tripped. This won't help you kill them any faster, but it will certainly prevent them from killing you (although these effects only function against conventional targets - a room full of Wraiths will scoff at your puny efforts).

As I think about it more, I'm veering towards the opinion that the ideal endpoint of this sort of build would shift over to being a Bard build rather than a Fighter build. You'd lose damage on the shield bash, but you'd gain from the standpoint of stunning. If you're looking to play a Vanguard, the restrictions imposed by Swashbuckling just to pick up Skirmisher are pretty severe.

[Coffey]

My note on Falconry was more related to how unusual it is for abilities such as these to apply to shields. As far as I can tell, the T5 Barbarian critical modifiers are the only such modifiers that apply to shields without explicitly mentioning shields. Likewise, the Falconry Wisdom for attack/damage are the only ways to use another stat with Shields (other than Different Tack for damage).

Makes me wonder how an Aasimar SB Fighter Falconry build would do then?
Edit: Not good but and Aasimar SB Fighter would work with LOH self healing.
Edit: Arcane Archer Elf Fighter Falconry should be great for higher paralyzing arrows DC with wisdom to hit damage.
Lower top end damage at 30 because damage from strength stacks higher.

Edit:

For example, you could do something like a 14 Cleric/6 Fighter build with T5 Vanguard that could Dire Charge (15 sec cooldown), tumble backwards, Shield Charge (12 sec cooldown), tumble backwards, Feral Charge (15 second cooldown), tumble backwards, Shield Rush (25 sec cooldown). While only one of those is a helpless effect and one of them doesn't stun/trip at all, it's still an amusing way to Cleave.

This would be hilarious with 6 characters like this haha!

As I think about it more, I'm veering towards the opinion that the ideal endpoint of this sort of build would shift over to being a Bard build rather than a Fighter build. You'd lose damage on the shield bash, but you'd gain from the standpoint of stunning. If you're looking to play a Vanguard, the restrictions imposed by Swashbuckling just to pick up Skirmisher are pretty severe.

Im thinking for now i will stay with fighter or paladin vanguard builds for a while. And maybe a 14 cleric/6 Fighter too eventually