2 Different FVS 20 DC Builds: Wisdom vs. Charisma

[Hjarki]

This is actually a good thought. It gives you exactly 40 PRR vs non-proficiency which I verified by taking it off. I am assuming mythic and reaper bonuses apply regardless of proficiency. This reduces my DR from 62.12 to 55.36. Definitely worth considering.

Medium Armor should give 1.5x while Heavy gives 2.0x. So you'd get +0.5x BAB in PRR. At level 30, this will be 20 BAB (30 with Divine Power) or +10/15 PRR.

If you're going to wear Heavy Armor without the proficiency, you might as well just wear robes to grab the Ravenloft caster set bonus. The 2 additional Wisdom you lose (vs. crafted) from not using the Scales of the Exile is almost certainly less impactful than the Beacon of Magic bonuses.

You might also consider going more heavily into Falconry to take advantage of the low-end Falconry attacks. I'm not a huge fan of them as a primary focus, but maximizing your Assassinate DC isn't all that hard (given there are so few options for doing so) and the combination of helpless effects (that work sometimes) and +30% helpless damage is likely to pay off as a more offensively effective approach.

This would likely mean using bows. You do get an implement bonus, but you'd effectively lose two slots (caster-centric bows are not common). It would open up twists like Pin/Otto's Whistler as well.

Since you wouldn't be depending on bows for damage (just as a carrier for effects), you wouldn't need to support them with gear/feats/etc. At most, you could probably justify replacing Spell Penetration and other somewhat weak feats with PBS/PS/IPS to launch those effects AE.

[slarden]

Medium Armor should give 1.5x while Heavy gives 2.0x. So you'd get +0.5x BAB in PRR. At level 30, this will be 20 BAB (30 with Divine Power) or +10/15 PRR.

If you're going to wear Heavy Armor without the proficiency, you might as well just wear robes to grab the Ravenloft caster set bonus. The 2 additional Wisdom you lose (vs. crafted) from not using the Scales of the Exile is almost certainly less impactful than the Beacon of Magic bonuses.

You might also consider going more heavily into Falconry to take advantage of the low-end Falconry attacks. I'm not a huge fan of them as a primary focus, but maximizing your Assassinate DC isn't all that hard (given there are so few options for doing so) and the combination of helpless effects (that work sometimes) and +30% helpless damage is likely to pay off as a more offensively effective approach.

This would likely mean using bows. You do get an implement bonus, but you'd effectively lose two slots (caster-centric bows are not common). It would open up twists like Pin/Otto's Whistler as well.

Since you wouldn't be depending on bows for damage (just as a carrier for effects), you wouldn't need to support them with gear/feats/etc. At most, you could probably justify replacing Spell Penetration and other somewhat weak feats with PBS/PS/IPS to launch those effects AE.

The primary reason for the heavy armor is the wisdom +9 and const +9 which is otherwise hard to slot. The con isn't as big of a deal with all the other hp boosters I have, but that gear fits so perfectly and gives me 2 slots for lgs which I wasn't striving for but works out well for me. The caster set is awesome - I use that on a different character. The DC from the 3 piece caster dc doesn't stack with the slavers 5 piece set plus I have to fit in the belt and gloves. I am glad you mentioned it because it's a an option for people that don't want to farm slavers its a great option and are looking for a little more dps. The dps benefits aren't as significant as you go up skulls which is why I like my setup.

I haven't looked at the bird for dps and support. I am glad you mention it - at some point I am going to try and understand those capabilities better, but probably on a build that invests more ap into the tree. It's a great thought- thank you for mentioning it.

There are fear immunity augments. Also, greater heroism gives fear immunity.

If you have access to them, completionist and past life wizard are better feats than greater/epic spell focus. Regular spell focus gives access to spell focus twists from magister and draconic. More spell pen feats or enlarge might be other useful feats.

Don't forget slay living and destruction for single target instakills.

Master of light gives +10 max caster levels to Sun Bolt, Searing Light, and Divine Punishment, not dc. And it doesn't do much for you. With the capstone, full zealous/intense faith and a divine destiny, you have 25 divine caster levels with +3 cl and mcl for fire/force/light/physical and +6 cl and +12 mcl for Nimbus of Light, Searing Light, Sun Bolt, Cometfall, Divine Punishment, Flame Strike, and Fire Storm. So without master of light, you cast Sun bolt at cl 34, mcl 30; searing light at cl 34, mcl 25; and divine punishment at cl 34, mcl 35. So it does nothing for dp, and not much for sun bolt. Searing light does get a boost, but it doesn't scale very well.

I agree on fear immunity augment. There are some quests like temple of vole where you get feared constantly and they dispel your gh so I always recommend the augment. As someone that solos I still find force of personality beneficial on a char build to protect me from stuns and dances. I find without it I am more likely to die when soloing, but of course mileage varies by person so I understand some people won't want to take it.

[Hjarki]

The primary reason for the heavy armor is the wisdom +9 and const +9 which is otherwise hard to slot.

I'm more defending the notion of taking Heavy Armor Proficiency. Medium and Light Armors aren't generally an option for casters, so if you're not going to take the feat you might as well just wear cloth and figure out some slot where you can craft an item for +7 Insightful Wisdom. On the other hand, taking the feat with your intended gear loadout means you get +40 PRR (+60 with Divine Power). That's such a massive amount of PRR that it's really hard to justify giving it up. Especially when you're taking feats like Spell Penetration on a build with massive caster levels where the bulk of spells you cast aren't subject to Spell Resistance in the first place (and Spell Resistance itself tends to get trivialized by past lives/Reaper xp anyway).

The DC from the 3 piece caster dc doesn't stack with the slavers 5 piece set plus I have to fit in the belt and gloves.

I think there's a good chance you'd equip the belt anyway for Fire spellpower since most of your AE comes from Fire.

[mr420247]

I'm at a 94-100 will save with jst the chieftan wis ring and maj twist on a cha build

Only time i think it matters maybe is the raid traps n berez boss fight usually

Compared sum stuff with a monk i no and i can probably get working frog dcs with that wis armor on too

If thats all you care about in medium armor coat of the traveller n the slavers orb on at 170 prr not even close to max yet

If i dropped the arcane blast feats n maximize for the heavy armor prof w shield mastery's i think you could hit 240-250 ish w dc boots too

It would also need a tier 8 spark for asf if your arcane w asf aug

[slarden]

I'm more defending the notion of taking Heavy Armor Proficiency. Medium and Light Armors aren't generally an option for casters, so if you're not going to take the feat you might as well just wear cloth and figure out some slot where you can craft an item for +7 Insightful Wisdom. On the other hand, taking the feat with your intended gear loadout means you get +40 PRR (+60 with Divine Power). That's such a massive amount of PRR that it's really hard to justify giving it up. Especially when you're taking feats like Spell Penetration on a build with massive caster levels where the bulk of spells you cast aren't subject to Spell Resistance in the first place (and Spell Resistance itself tends to get trivialized by past lives/Reaper xp anyway).

I think there's a good chance you'd equip the belt anyway for Fire spellpower since most of your AE comes from Fire.

Yes very reasonable.

I'm at a 94-100 will save with jst the chieftan wis ring and maj twist on a cha build

Only time i think it matters maybe is the raid traps n berez boss fight usually

Compared sum stuff with a monk i no and i can probably get working frog dcs with that wis armor on too

If thats all you care about in medium armor coat of the traveller n the slavers orb on at 170 prr not even close to max yet

If i dropped the arcane blast feats n maximize for the heavy armor prof w shield mastery's i think you could hit 240-250 ish w dc boots too

It would also need a tier 8 spark for asf if your arcane w asf aug

good points.

[PedDuxXing]

Currently playing the Charisma build, so far so good. Should the stat increases from Angel of Vengeance be corrected to reflect Charisma instead of Wisdom for the Charisma build, or is there some reasoning behind Wisdom increases for the Charisma build?

[slarden]

Currently playing the Charisma build, so far so good. Should the stat increases from Angel of Vengeance be corrected to reflect Charisma instead of Wisdom for the Charisma build, or is there some reasoning behind Wisdom increases for the Charisma build?

Fixed, and thank you for the catch. Some sloppy copying and pasting was involved.

[oldschooldragon]

Can you suggest a gear set for the wisdom build without the lgs.

[mr420247]

Lets see think he had it posted main items you will want

Wis rage armor ins con, wis 9, mines ring wis, qual wis, festive wis aug, epic litany or rso gloves for profanity

Then 5 slavers set, fill in blanks with ravenloft gear

[slarden]

Can you suggest a gear set for the wisdom build without the lgs.

I am not sure if you are open to heroic greensteel, but this event is coming up and if you buy some raid bypass timers you will likely be able to make 1-2 pairs of smoke boots (permanent blur + displacement clickies)

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...alooza-Returns!

These items give you ghostly in boot/googles slot:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Mentau%27s_Goggles
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legenda...tsole_Slippers
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Treads_...dow_(Level_25)

Besides LGS these items give you blur or lesser displacement:
http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Azure_Guard

If you don't already have the azure guard boots (another raid item) I would try to participate in Shroudpalooza to make the heroic GS smoke item and pair it with a ghostly item.

[DarthCaedus]

Is the gear up to date? Is there a anything I should get from night revels.

[aumerle]

Hey all -

Looking at making a raid level healer/DC build and really like the look of your wisdom build here.

Quick question - could you give me a quick list of preferred spells to take by level? I don't usually play a divine caster so not terribly familiar with the ins and outs of all of the spells and my understanding is that FvS uses the replace a spell per 3 days at the trainer mechanic, so I'd like to start from a solid set of spell selection rather than making a bunch of mistakes and having to take a lot of time to change out spells later.

Thanks!

[slarden]

Hey all -

Looking at making a raid level healer/DC build and really like the look of your wisdom build here.

Quick question - could you give me a quick list of preferred spells to take by level? I don't usually play a divine caster so not terribly familiar with the ins and outs of all of the spells and my understanding is that FvS uses the replace a spell per 3 days at the trainer mechanic, so I'd like to start from a solid set of spell selection rather than making a bunch of mistakes and having to take a lot of time to change out spells later.

Thanks!

Here is what I take for spells. The main thing I swap out is blade barrier which is great for herioc leveling and not so good once you get to mid-epics.

Level 1: Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Command, Cause Fear
Level 2: Soul Burst, Hold Person, Resist Energy
Level 3: Blindness, Searing Light, Magic Circle Against Evil, Cure Serious Wounds
Level 4: Freedom of Movement, Death Ward, Cure Critical Wounds
Level 5: Greater command, Slay Living, Divine Punishment, Break Enchantment
Level 6: Heal, Undeath to Death, Cometfall or symbol of Persuasion (Blade Barrier for heroic leveling)
Level 7: Greater Restoration, Resurrection , Destruction
Level 8: Symbol of Death, Death Ward Mass, Death Pact
Level 9: Implosion, Energy Drain, True Resurrection

[Dread131313]

I’m confused why are you saying that you are building for higher reaper then you take all the feats for more spell dps and feats like arcane pulse? If you were truly going for high reaper there are better feats to take.
Also why heavy armor prof? That PRR will not save you in high reaper.
I’d also suggest dropping the hp bonus from lgs and getting sp instead because all your small %hp buffs again won’t do anything in reaper. I play fvs and can take multiple hits on r10. You will take the same hits and be fine but will be down a lot of dcs and healing power compared to a max dc build with the gear to keep itself up in reaper.

Also I don’t understand all the swap items and stuff for stupid little bonuses like extra leap of faith. You are better off grabbing something like more sp from exalted

One final comment is your dcs and wisdom. You are adding in too many bonuses that you can’t keep up forever which throws out unrealistic numbers.

On paper these builds may work but in practice I think it’s just impossible to play this and succeed in the difficulty you say you want to run.

Thats the problem im having with a lot of these builds. It seems like they are more 'paper math' than anything else.
I've tried playing builds and even though they sound great in the build post, in application its MUCH different!

Also many of these builds focus on veterans who know the game like the back of their hand and have been playing for 10+ years and have a slew of past lives.
For first lifers like me, who are still learning this game and want a good strong build that will play well to 30 it feels like a waste of time to find a decent build that isnt just 'paper math'.

On to your comment, with the changes you have suggested - would you be willing to take this build and make the changes you've suggested and post it?
If I am going to dedicate my time to a build id like to make sure its the right one, or at least that time is well spent.

[Dread131313]

... /snip...

What skills did you use? Starting INT 8 = 4 skill points!
But you dont even outline which skills to spend these in!

I am thinking heal, UMD, spellcraft, and conc???

[Dread131313]

I just created the WIS version of this build on a new level 7 first lifer Aasimar.
The build feels a little weak as a fresh level 7. I am a bit puzzled as to why to choose the quarterstaff deity, which removes the ability to use shields...
I mean, I understand the premise of using Qstaff and Soundburst to stun mobs and smack on them, which is cool and all. But what about mobs who save?
This new level 7 has no AoE at all. I went into Kobolds New Brotherhood, which is where I test all new builds. Went in on R1.

The build held up on its own, but toward the end with misplaced or dodged ray SLA's that AoV gets some mobs got to me and were able to hit me.
I think I would feel much better in this case blocking with a tower shield and then casting sound burst and then an AoE on them after they are stunned.
Heals werent that bad on R1, with the -60% penalty I had to use some SP for close wounds (empowered so I am not having to button mash for 5 minutes on R1).
The druid build and the warlock ES builds felt stronger. This build might be stronger, as it goes along later on with more feats and enhancement points and better AA, but as a low level first lifer it felt a little weak.

Also, the low starting strength (8) was pretty low and a first lifer fresh toon will get encumbered quick with the **** they give you as a level 7, I dont think any of it had STR on any of it. I am going to re-make him with bond of the fallen (+1 str, better than nothing) and go with a faith where I can at least use a shield. Later on needing a shield might not matter, but leveling without a shield as a caster sucks.

[Tlorrd]

I just created the WIS version of this build on a new level 7 first lifer Aasimar.
The build feels a little weak as a fresh level 7. I am a bit puzzled as to why to choose the quarterstaff deity, which removes the ability to use shields...
I mean, I understand the premise of using Qstaff and Soundburst to stun mobs and smack on them, which is cool and all. But what about mobs who save?
This new level 7 has no AoE at all. I went into Kobolds New Brotherhood, which is where I test all new builds. Went in on R1.

The build held up on its own, but toward the end with misplaced or dodged ray SLA's that AoV gets some mobs got to me and were able to hit me.
I think I would feel much better in this case blocking with a tower shield and then casting sound burst and then an AoE on them after they are stunned.
Heals werent that bad on R1, with the -60% penalty I had to use some SP for close wounds (empowered so I am not having to button mash for 5 minutes on R1).
The druid build and the warlock ES builds felt stronger. This build might be stronger, as it goes along later on with more feats and enhancement points and better AA, but as a low level first lifer it felt a little weak.

Also, the low starting strength (8) was pretty low and a first lifer fresh toon will get encumbered quick with the **** they give you as a level 7, I dont think any of it had STR on any of it. I am going to re-make him with bond of the fallen (+1 str, better than nothing) and go with a faith where I can at least use a shield. Later on needing a shield might not matter, but leveling without a shield as a caster sucks.

You're expectations running reaper as a first life character and new to the game probably need to be adjusted.

[Dread131313]

You're expectations running reaper as a first life character and new to the game probably need to be adjusted.

You didnt read my post.

I said I use that quest on R1 as a litmus test for all first lifer level 7 builds.

I am aware that higher level dungeons with traps etc and other types of mobs on R1 on first life will tear up several builds.

[Tlorrd]

You didnt read my post.

I said I use that quest on R1 as a litmus test for all first lifer level 7 builds.

I am aware that higher level dungeons with traps etc and other types of mobs on R1 on first life will tear up several builds.

So I built a FVS 1st lifer level 7 ... Feats are Max, Emp, Emp Heal. Basically spammed Sun bolt SLA, Nimbus SLA, and occasional sound burst. No radiance items. Used close wounds SLA occasional. Seems pretty boss to me ... even with my meager skills.

[slarden]

Thats the problem im having with a lot of these builds. It seems like they are more 'paper math' than anything else.
I've tried playing builds and even though they sound great in the build post, in application its MUCH different!


Also many of these builds focus on veterans who know the game like the back of their hand and have been playing for 10+ years and have a slew of past lives.
For first lifers like me, who are still learning this game and want a good strong build that will play well to 30 it feels like a waste of time to find a decent build that isnt just 'paper math'.

The math part is really for end game so if people have a gap on DC/Wisdom/Hamp, etc. they can identify it. This isn't a paper build, I spent significant time playing it, but I never played it on a first life character so I can't comment on that. The person you are referring to was specifically questioning why I didn't max out DC so it had nothing to do with those decisions not working as well on a first lifer. Quite the opposite he felt my character should have been optimized for end game higher reaper. While I do join high reaper quests it represents a small portion of my play which is why I prioritized spellpower and survivability over a few DC and spell points that I seemingly don't even need. The build worked fine in high reaper, but is more optimized for mid reaper.

There is nothing wrong with his opinion for himself, but in my case I don't agree with his assessment for my character for reasons I previously listed. I did clearly state in my post the options for a higher DC build. Its' really just about a few feat differences.

I would say my choices such as more hp vs. spell points and more spell power from maximize/empower are more first-life friendly although that was not my intent. I felt those worked better for myself and my playstyle also.

What skills did you use? Starting INT 8 = 4 skill points!
But you dont even outline which skills to spend these in!


I am thinking heal, UMD, spellcraft, and conc???

My build starts with 12 int and I took Spellcraft, Heal and UMD at level 1. I then added concentration and with a tome you can easily max out all 4 and put points to other skills like perform.

I just created the WIS version of this build on a new level 7 first lifer Aasimar.
The build feels a little weak as a fresh level 7. I am a bit puzzled as to why to choose the quarterstaff deity, which removes the ability to use shields...
I mean, I understand the premise of using Qstaff and Soundburst to stun mobs and smack on them, which is cool and all. But what about mobs who save?

The bold part is entirely wrong. This isn't the premise of the build it's a DC Casting build as indicated in the title. There is no judgement here, but you will have better results as a spellcaster taking advantage of the caster level bonuses and nice things at level 7. You can also use command, hold person and even blindness to deal with mobs that make their save, but you might be surprised how good the dps is on some of those fully meta'd slas rather than single-target cc.

I didn't choose Aureon for the quarterstaff damage. I chose it specifically for the Aureon's Instruction clicky you get at level 12 which supports a spellcasting build.

https://ddowiki.com/page/Aureon%27s_Instruction

I only use quarterstaff up until spellcasting is effective which is fast for favored soul. Remember that with maximize and empower you are getting a 225 spell power boost for free with all slas.

So at level 7 you have the following spells for dps:

Fully meta'd nimbus of light sla (with +3 effective caster level and +6 max caster level from font of power on top of +3 caster level from intense faith)
Unmeta'd nimbus of light spell (with +3 effective caster level and +6 max caster level from font of power on top of +3 caster level from intense faith)
Fully meta'd sunbolt sla (with +3 effective caster level and +6 max caster level from font of power on top of +3 caster level from intense faith)
Unmeta'd searing light spell (with +3 effective caster level and +6 max caster level from font of power on top of +3 caster level from intense faith)

On top of that you are a getting a 50% damage bonus from enemies cc'd with soundburst. Spellpower, Caster level bonus and Crits are top tier at level 7 as far as casters go. You even have blindness available. You are even getting a bonus 70 hit points to work with. You also get spell point regen with just reward - not as good as it is at higher levels, but it's something.

This new level 7 has no AoE at all.

Also, the low starting strength (8) was pretty low and a first lifer fresh toon will get encumbered quick with the **** they give you as a level 7, I dont think any of it had STR on any of it. I am going to re-make him with bond of the fallen (+1 str, better than nothing) and go with a faith where I can at least use a shield. Later on needing a shield might not matter, but leveling without a shield as a caster sucks.

The proper way to play the build is to turn off maximize and empower from soundburst so you can spam it and use your other low cost dps spells for damage which benefit from the caster level bonuses. It's good to learn how to play the game without aoe even though you will have more aoe at higher levels.

At low levels keeping smaller stacks of consumables is key to avoiding encumbrance issues. Remove dragonshards from your ingredient bag regularly. Keep 10-20 stacks of potions instead of 100. I do have encumbrance issues from time to time at low levels, but I can manage it ok if I practice good inventory hygeine.