U39 Ranger 2.0?

[Fenix93]

And one thing that I was thinking about a lot, this new tree seems really perfect for a class ranger and even more for an iconic Aasimar (but I would like to discuss this in a separate discussion).

One of the things that I have never liked in DDO and that there was not a class tree that allows you to control pet animals as happens in the PNP, this new universal tree seems to solve the problem, the fact is that to use this copper on a ranger I think you will have to make choices, give up some points in Deepwood stalker or not invest in abortion, but seeing the bonuses, it seems to me a good choice, especially for the core bonuses that are not horrible indeed MRR and PRR they are always very useful, but I do not know ... I think that as always this tree will go more in favor of monks or warriors ... although in my opinion this tree on a Ranger would be perfect but as already said he will have to choose whether to give up of points in Deepwood stalker or not.

[droid327]

I don't really see this affecting rangers all that much because they have very little to stack wis for...they have like one CC spell that isn't specific to animals. I only really see it being useful for an AA to boost the CC arrow DC and get wis to damage.

[unbongwah]

If we're talking pure rangers, the main issue is AP cost. Your average build will put 60+ APs into the ranger trees alone: e.g., 42 Tempest / 24 DWS is usually my baseline AP spread for a melee build, which leaves 14 APs, just enough for tier-3 in a different tree - be it AA, Harper, or Falconry. That's enough to get you WIS-to-damage and Strike for the Eyes; but not enough to make it to tier-4 (Deadly Instinct et al). You could shift APs from DWS to Falconry, of course; but that means giving up +1 crit range and Killer, which seems like it would be at best a wash in terms of DPS. Although maybe No Mercy makes up the difference vs trash mobs at least?

I have the same issue with melee druids. I'd really like to put together a WIS-based bear melee / caster hybrid; I'm just not sure I have enough APs (or feats) to pull it off.

Still, I look forward to what people come up with and hope someone proves me wrong.

[PsychoBlonde]

I have the same issue with melee druids. I'd really like to put together a WIS-based bear melee / caster hybrid; I'm just not sure I have enough APs (or feats) to pull it off.

I don't see wis bear being very good, because most of the bear abilities boost your strength. But I think a wis-based wolf melee/caster hybrid is doable and you have room in your points spread to get Falconry.

[Ultinoob]

The favored enemy animals could be very useful to rangers. You get +2 damage to all you other favored enemies and an extra 14? to animals.

Come to think of it. Undead from vistani and animals from falconry for 4? ap. thats pretty good. If you go full ranger you get 5 from ranger and then 2 from forementioned and maybe 1 from epic destinies (or twist). With the possibility to get +1 from deepwood and +1 from harper. Thats a lot of favored enemies. Add racial ap and take gnome favored enemy. thats a total of 10 favored enemies.

[Fenix93]

If we're talking pure rangers, the main issue is AP cost.

On this I give you reason, the falconer works better on a pure Ranger rather than a hybrid in my opinion too.

Your average build will put 60+ APs into the ranger trees alone: e.g., 42 Tempest / 24 DWS is usually my baseline AP spread for a melee build, which leaves 14 APs, just enough for tier-3 in a different tree - be it AA, Harper, or Falconry.That's enough to get you WIS-to-damage and Strike for the Eyes; but not enough to make it to tier-4 (Deadly Instinct et al). You could shift APs from DWS to Falconry, of course; but that means giving up +1 crit range and Killer, which seems like it would be at best a wash in terms of DPS.

In fact and as I said, here you have to make a choice, give up the AP in DWS and put them in the new tree or do not invest in the new tree and leave those AP in the DWS.

Whether it's melee or Ranger build anyway, for me the use of the falcon works better on a pure Ranger if you want to use the new tree, but to understand if the choice is right or not you have to test on lammania .. .something ... I know nobody has done.

The favored enemy animals could be very useful to rangers. You get +2 damage to all you other favored enemies and an extra 14? to animals.

Come to think of it. Undead from vistani and animals from falconry for 4? ap. thats pretty good. If you go full ranger you get 5 from ranger and then 2 from forementioned and maybe 1 from epic destinies (or twist). With the possibility to get +1 from deepwood and +1 from harper. Thats a lot of favored enemies. Add racial ap and take gnome favored enemy. thats a total of 10 favored enemies.

the favorite enemy undead you can have it base if you use the iconic Aasimar, so that you save yourself the trouble of spending points in Arper tree, as in another post of which I spoke if you use the iconic Aasimar in pure form (therefore without multi-classing only by yielding the basic Ranger class) you can get to 10 favorite enemies in more than normal if you count the various feats you take from the branches and while levels and from the Twist of Fate.

[unbongwah]

I don't see wis bear being very good, because most of the bear abilities boost your strength. But I think a wis-based wolf melee/caster hybrid is doable and you have room in your points spread to get Falconry.

TBH all I want is a bear build with a viable Earthquake DC. But pure bears get +6 STR from Rage of the Beast, +2 from NP capstone, +4 from Animal Growth, and +5 from Primal Scream. So realistically you're not going to close that gap going WIS-based unless you deliberately gimp your base STR which seems ill-advised. WIS primary STR secondary is probably the more sensible approach, presuming there's anything "sensible" about my goal.

[Vish]

I see pure ranger aa being the bomb
41 bird man
24 aa
Wis and con, dex for reflex
Max paralyzer

[droid327]

If we're talking pure rangers, the main issue is AP cost. Your average build will put 60+ APs into the ranger trees alone: e.g., 42 Tempest / 24 DWS is usually my baseline AP spread for a melee build, which leaves 14 APs, just enough for tier-3 in a different tree - be it AA, Harper, or Falconry. That's enough to get you WIS-to-damage and Strike for the Eyes; but not enough to make it to tier-4 (Deadly Instinct et al). You could shift APs from DWS to Falconry, of course; but that means giving up +1 crit range and Killer, which seems like it would be at best a wash in terms of DPS. Although maybe No Mercy makes up the difference vs trash mobs at least?

I have the same issue with melee druids. I'd really like to put together a WIS-based bear melee / caster hybrid; I'm just not sure I have enough APs (or feats) to pull it off.

Still, I look forward to what people come up with and hope someone proves me wrong.

Plus I don't see what the point is for a pure ranger tempest to want to stack wis anyway. They get practically nothing for it. Makes more sense to stack int and go harper - at least then you get more skill points. But going dex the "normal" way gets you AC and reflex saves, seems like that's still the best approach anyway.

Now if you're talking tempest splashes...big difference in U39. 14 clr war domain 6 rgr tempest has a lot baked in - crit from holy sword, khopesh prof, and now wis to dmg and wis kta plus decent dc casting from the cleric spell book. Or /6 rgr AA, same argument, plus war priest updates with silver flame

[unbongwah]

Now if you're talking tempest splashes...big difference in U39. 14 clr war domain 6 rgr tempest has a lot baked in - crit from holy sword, khopesh prof, and now wis to dmg and wis kta plus decent dc casting from the cleric spell book.

That had occurred to me as well: something like 40 Tempest / 31 Falconry perhaps. Or 40 Tempest / 11 DWS / 28 Falconry / 1 human? I wish Warpriest was less weaksauce, but I guess the silver lining is there's no need to waste APs in its tree for this concept.

[Haphazarduk]

That had occurred to me as well: something like 40 Tempest / 31 Falconry perhaps. Or 40 Tempest / 11 DWS / 28 Falconry / 1 human? I wish Warpriest was less weaksauce, but I guess the silver lining is there's no need to waste APs in its tree for this concept.

40 Tempest/23 Falconry/17 Scourge with extra in Falconry if you have racial AP?

Hap

[unbongwah]

40 Tempest/23 Falconry/17 Scourge with extra in Falconry if you have racial AP?

Destroyer of the Dead only works with four subpar weapon types, so unless you have specific named weapons in mind, it's not worth it. Tilomere's build used Forgotten Light because it natively supported WIS-to-dmg, but with an universal WIS to dmg option in Falconry, you're better off sticking with khopeshes which are 16-20/x4 weapons w/IC:Slash + Holy Sword. If you really had a ton of racial APs, I think I'd prefer regular Aasimar w/Fallen bond using khopeshes.

[Haphazarduk]

Destroyer of the Dead only works with four subpar weapon types, so unless you have specific named weapons in mind, it's not worth it. Tilomere's build used Forgotten Light because it natively supported WIS-to-dmg, but with an universal WIS to dmg option in Falconry, you're better off sticking with khopeshes which are 16-20/x4 weapons w/IC:Slash + Holy Sword. If you really had a ton of racial APs, I think I'd prefer regular Aasimar w/Fallen bond using khopeshes.

Yup, I had named weapons in mind. Fun to have x5 crits with Skullsmasher...

Of course whats really fun is swashbuckling with them but that's another build.

Hap

[Fenix93]

40 Tempest/23 Falconry/17 Scourge with extra in Falconry if you have racial AP?

Hap

Yes, with full racial AP because if you can not get enough points in the Falconer tree, if most of the non-racial APs spend them in the iconic Asamar tree or any heroic race the build will not work so you'll have to get the Race completionist to get the Full AP racial to run the build for me.

I see pure ranger aa being the bomb
41 bird man
24 aa
Wis and con, dex for reflex
Max paralyzer

So you're going to give up Core 5° of AA for Falconer's core 5° on a pure Ranger build? I do not know if it is convenient even if the last skill of the 5° core of the Falconer intrigues me a lot...

Personally I was thinking now... I wonder if this could work on Rogue mechanic... it could work, an INT-DEX + Falconer tree build, you're not going to focus on the tree feats that use the WIS modifier but go on all the rest, Practiced Accuracy and Watch the Center are however feat that can help a Rogue that exploits Assassinate + Seank attak to do more damage with the damage of the bird could do more damage.