The Shadow Assassin -- A Reaper Rogue

[Shadow_Jumper]

What may not be apparent from this thread is how much more DPS Shadow's build may be getting than someone running in SD, even if they took Scion of the Ethereal Plane and didn't otherwise sacrifice DPS with their feat and enhancement choices. The figures in that recent thread about top DPS builds suggest the difference might be as wide as 21k vs 13k.

All the rogue assassin DPS numbers from that thread were this build. However the SD versus LD tests were done with a more defensive gear setup, and the comparable LD DPS for that 13k SD was 17.7k

With DPS optimized gear layout (the gear listed in thread) this build tops out at around 20-22k DPS. Red named kobold beatdown times were roughly 21-27 seconds for 500k hp boss kobold.

The Falconry tree seems like it will give a little DC boost for 4AP for those who can find the spare points. But there are definitely choices to be made already with deciding whether or not to take KTA, going into acrobat further for the dodge and dex bonus, and using vistani for the extra boss DPS it offers if you go through to Tier 4.

Thanks.

Falconry may be a good easy DC boost for those that need it if they loose too much from dropping SD in that aspect. Otherwise, I recommend staying away from the tree. The only APs I would consider spendable are those in TA, however unless you absolutely need the 3 DC, the threat reduction from TA will give much more survivability increases than what is available in Falconer.

[blerkington]

All the rogue assassin DPS numbers from that thread were this build. However the SD versus LD tests were done with a more defensive gear setup, and the comparable LD DPS for that 13k SD was 17.7k

With DPS optimized gear layout (the gear listed in thread) this build tops out at around 20-22k DPS. Red named kobold beatdown times were roughly 21-27 seconds for 500k hp boss kobold.

Falconry may be a good easy DC boost for those that need it if they loose too much from dropping SD in that aspect. Otherwise, I recommend staying away from the tree. The only APs I would consider spendable are those in TA, however unless you absolutely need the 3 DC, the threat reduction from TA will give much more survivability increases than what is available in Falconer.

That's good to know about the DPS potential of rogues running in SD. It's not as far apart as I thought.

When I was looking at the Falconry tree again just now, it seems like the bonus to assassination is in Tier 2, not Tier 1, so it will be more expensive than I thought. I don't plan on spending any points in the tree; the opportunity costs seems too high. Plus I don't want a goofy animal companion.

Threat reduction is definitely a real issue for melee rogues now. There's not as much of it on the better gear we might wear at cap, and our DPS went up a lot from vistani. It's made me pay more attention to group composition before I decide to join because of the chance of suddenly and involuntarily becoming the group's tank.

Thanks.

[Maelodic]

Plus I don't want a goofy animal companion.

It's a toggle - you don't have to have it summoned.

[redoubt]

All the rogue assassin DPS numbers from that thread were this build. However the SD versus LD tests were done with a more defensive gear setup, and the comparable LD DPS for that 13k SD was 17.7k

LD = Legendary Dreadnaught. (so blitzing)
SD = Shadow Dancer.

Am I reading this right that your tests are putting Shadow Dancer above Legendary Dreadnaught in DPS?

[Shadow_Jumper]

LD = Legendary Dreadnaught. (so blitzing)
SD = Shadow Dancer.

Am I reading this right that your tests are putting Shadow Dancer above Legendary Dreadnaught in DPS?

No.
Comparable dps times (using same gear setup) for Ld v SD loooked like:
SD: 14k
LD: 17.7k

[redoubt]

No.
Comparable dps times (using same gear setup) for Ld v SD loooked like:
SD: 14k
LD: 17.7k

Thanks!

[Tlorrd]

No.
Comparable dps times (using same gear setup) for Ld v SD loooked like:
SD: 14k
LD: 17.7k

Thanks!

Comparable thematic fun

SD: 100
LD: 5

[Shadow_Jumper]

Comparable thematic fun

SD: 100
LD: 5

Depends on the player I guess.

For me, I enjoy playing my character to the maximum efficiency possible. There is literally 0 reason to be in SD right now. The way I play wouldn’t change at all, the only thing that would change is having less survivability and significantly less dps.

I’m perfectly fine if my character isn’t thematically fun to some players who prefer some of SD’s abilities. I prefer to be simple, but lethal. And most of SD’s abilities are, imo, subpar at best, and downright insultingly bad at worse.

Examples of insultingly bad:

Core 6 capstone that gives evasion to rogues
Faster sneaking clickie when SSG refuses to remove reaper auto-spot

./shrug

I prefer not to be insulted by poor ED and gameplay design

[FuryFlash]

Depends on the player I guess.

For me, I enjoy playing my character to the maximum efficiency possible. There is literally 0 reason to be in SD right now. The way I play wouldn’t change at all, the only thing that would change is having less survivability and significantly less dps.

I’m perfectly fine if my character isn’t thematically fun to some players who prefer some of SD’s abilities. I prefer to be simple, but lethal. And most of SD’s abilities are, imo, subpar at best, and downright insultingly bad at worse.

Examples of insultingly bad:

Core 6 capstone that gives evasion to rogues
Faster sneaking clickie when SSG refuses to remove reaper auto-spot

./shrug

I prefer not to be insulted by poor ED and gameplay design

Reasons I run SD on my Tempest in everything except raids:
> High defenses: 25% incorp (15% better than gear), +6 MDB, Meld without using twist
> Highest passive DPS destiny (beaten by Blitz which isn't maintainable in all scenarios)
> Utility: DDoor for free, Shadow Walk for free, Stealth speed clicky, improved invis
> +Dex instead of +Str/Con
> Long-range dominate/insta-kill (works around corners, doesn't reveal your location, doesn't take you out of stealth, etc)
> Chance to remove SA immunity

I use LD in raids when only DPS matters and I know I can maintain Blitz.

[FuryFlash]

I see why you use it, but with my playstyle, LD fits better simply for the raw power.

Since all you really care about is DPS, it makes sense for you to run LD. I am PUGing the majority of the time, so the non-DPS benefits SD offers exceed the loss of DPS for me (In a group, I might be the tank, the healer, the DPS, etc). Really I just disagree with this statement:

There is literally 0 reason to be in SD right now.

I also want to mention that stealth is one of the strongest aspects of my character (in high Reaper). The fact that you are pretty much completely disregarding it does not surprise me, given the difference in playstyles and that you always have a good group, but while Reaper auto-detect is a speedbump to stealth play, one can get around it 90% of the time.