DC based FvS?

[Ragnarnessaja]

Hi folks.

I am coming back from a long break and have several new things to learn about, such as Reaper.

I'm told that DC casters are potent in this difficulty and would like to know if anyone has seen any DC focused FVS characters doing well. I would prefer FvS over Cleric, though to be honest I wouldn't be too upset if I was told Cleric was better. I understand that there's a FvS pass currently being worked on for Update 39 and wondered if anyone knew how that was going and if that would effect things as far as my goals.

My goals are: Turn my old modified Yeela FvS (17 FvS/2 rog/1 Wiz) into a 18 FvS/2 Rog offensive DC Caster/healer/trapper. be successful in current end game content regarding Epic dungeons, raids and Reaper difficulty. Going Cleric is an option also if that is simply more viable.

I understand it's a lot to shoot for, but hey, I achieved that (minus the Reaper part cause it didn't exist) back in the past. I had a Reflex of like 90, able to solo heal raids, carry the party through EE Haunted Halls, roll through the traps and take zero damage AND disarm them without a problem as well as doing stupid Shiradi DPS with the Wizard splash for Magic Missile and Wizard Missile SLA. It was an amazing character. Strongest I've ever felt in the game.

What are your thoughts on my goal in regards to the current game, Reaper difficulty, update 39 content and the FvS pass?

[Hjarki]

Hi folks.

I am coming back from a long break and have several new things to learn about, such as Reaper.

I'm told that DC casters are potent in this difficulty and would like to know if anyone has seen any DC focused FVS characters doing well. I would prefer FvS over Cleric, though to be honest I wouldn't be too upset if I was told Cleric was better. I understand that there's a FvS pass currently being worked on for Update 39 and wondered if anyone knew how that was going and if that would effect things as far as my goals.

It's hard to say, but my guess is that Cleric will be able to obtain higher DCs (at least school-specific ones).

My goals are: Turn my old modified Yeela FvS (17 FvS/2 rog/1 Wiz) into a 18 FvS/2 Rog offensive DC Caster/healer/trapper. be successful in current end game content regarding Epic dungeons, raids and Reaper difficulty. Going Cleric is an option also if that is simply more viable.

Divine/Rogue is a tough road to walk because there's no real synergy between the two concepts. Intelligence is the core focus of a trapper; it's frequently a dump stat for Divines. Divines also get very few skill points. The one truly strong combat style for Rogues - crossbow - isn't compatible with Deities. Almost nothing from Rogue will help you function as a Cleric; almost nothing from Cleric will help you function as a Rogue.

The value of the of Divine capstone might well also be too valuable to pass up in favor of trapping. This remains to be seen.

[Ragnarnessaja]

It's hard to say, but my guess is that Cleric will be able to obtain higher DCs (at least school-specific ones).



Divine/Rogue is a tough road to walk because there's no real synergy between the two concepts. Intelligence is the core focus of a trapper; it's frequently a dump stat for Divines. Divines also get very few skill points. The one truly strong combat style for Rogues - crossbow - isn't compatible with Deities. Almost nothing from Rogue will help you function as a Cleric; almost nothing from Cleric will help you function as a Rogue.

The value of the of Divine capstone might well also be too valuable to pass up in favor of trapping. This remains to be seen.

I agree that Trapping and Divines is a very unconventional mix and the fact the Yeela build I modified allowed me to succeed so well at it remains remarkable to me.

Very valid point on the Capstone. I don't know what it is so I'll have to wait and see I guess.


REgarding Crossbow - when I left ranged wasn't very strong. The only real successful archer type build was the Monkcher which I now believe to be thoroughly dead. How have things changed?

[slarden]

Here is the latest post on the tree:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6114034

There is also a new fvs tree - great for splashing with hamp and other benefits:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6114031

I posted a fairly simple wisdom based fvs dc build here:

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6108531

The new capstone is tough to give up as it's + 4 to main stat and it was supposed to be an additional + 2 DC to all schools- although that isn't showing up currently. A dragonborn charisma dc caster will end up with a higher evocation DC than a wisdom caster due to the 3 evocation DC available in the dragonborn tree. If you are going to give up 2 DC with the capstone that might be worth considering. My charisma warlock is able to find all secret doors in the game with 11 pts to search, an int/ins int /festive int / good luck slotted hat and search/ins search trinket to swap. You CAN get the skill needed for traps with swap gear, gh scrolls, possibly skill tomes, good luck, etc., but max investment will be needed to make up for the lack of int. The reflex save to take advantage of evasion will be tougher.

Fvs have solid DC and spell pen so you can be effective with the splash, but I think I would focus on trap survival rather than trap disabling. From 1-30 there are only a few traps that will kill me without trapping and I usually avoid those quests. The xp bonus is nice, but offset by the extra time to disable the traps.

[Unsinful]

Any ranged that uses a vorpal repeater tends to tear through heroics on R1 but loses its oomph in epics. So rogue and a divine trapping also means that you are just playing a caster that is gimped by 2 levels. You get spells later than usual, you get less sp, and you lose caster levels that give spell pen and DC’s.
DC Casting Fvs is very viable and with the new tree will hit the same number if not higher that a cleric. The Domains give a nice boost but Fvs gets tons more sp and with the new capstone a lot of more DC than before. Currently a maxed out Domain gives 5 DC
You get +4 from capstone in Fvs plus another 1 from the 18 Core with the new tree.

I play DC casting fvs at endgame and it brings so much utility to the table that trapping would never cross my mind. For heroics its nice but like others pointed out you have to weigh that time vs XP vs being a better caster or giving up capstone. My Fvs now get its wisdom up to 108 in reaper and gets 115 standing Evo DC which is plenty for endgame. The other thing a lot of people don’t realize about Fvs and Cleric is how many of their spells are underrated but are very useful.
Holy smite for blind
Orders Wrath for Stuns on Chaotics
Greater Command for Knockdown
Those are some that come to mind that most people glance over, but in endgame especially, bring some nice CC to the table on top of the instakills that Divines get.


As for monkchers: they have kind of died off a little bit with people changing over to being thrower monks but they do exist. I would never recommend a ranged for heroics unless its vorpal repeater and even then I’m iffy on it.

[Fivetigers33]

Going Cleric is an option also if that is simply more viable.

As pointed out above, DC Favored Soul can work.

But just to put it in perspective, a death domain cleric with 0 past lives will have the same necromancy dc as a favored soul with every past life. Cleric pulls even further ahead if you don't have a class capstone. This is assuming you want to use necro spells like Destruction, Slay Living, and Undeath to Death.



Edit: Looking over the FvS update thread, they will get an additional +2 DCs in the capstone. So it's not as far behind cleric as I originally thought. Cleric still has higher potential though. Whether or not you need the extra DCs will depend on your gear/build/past lives/reaper points. If you are dead set on multiclassing, cleric is probably your best bet. Their capstone is only +1 DC, where the new FvS capstone is +4 DCs.

[Jetrule]

The value of certain abilities have changed due to reaper and the latest content. Your trapper soul build remains a versatile, strong soloing concept and great for most pugging. For reaper play there is usually more emphasis on physical resistance rating and magical resistance rating than evasion but evasion with strong saves and decent prr and/or avoidance is viable. There is in general less emphasis on bluebar dps and more on dc's. Though blue bar dps and shiradi is still strong and viable through low reapers. There is more emphasis on party healing and keeping someone in a tank roll alive in mid and very high reapers. Traps over all are less significant than they were around the time of haunted halls, but the best most popular endgame raid, The Curse of Strahd requires a good trapper for one part. So Trappers are still relevant.

Good ways of dealing with things like constructs, undead, plants, wisps and new to you champion mobs who can have a variety of resistances is important. There are new feats, a level 29 destiny feat offers a very popular mass kill for death magic immune beasties, Mass frog. For divine casters this variety of very common imunities also adds value to spells like greater command, symbol of persuasion and commetfall. There is currently very good gear for universal spell dc's so having a variety of effective spells for different opponents from different schools can be much easier.

A new gear grind awaits you to reach the multiple school dc's needed for the higher difficulties. The good news is your build is likely good enough to jump right in on elite and reaper 1 groups and contribute if not lead the way. Play skill still matters.

[Ragnarnessaja]

The value of certain abilities have changed due to reaper and the latest content. Your trapper soul build remains a versatile, strong soloing concept and great for most pugging. For reaper play there is usually more emphasis on physical resistance rating and magical resistance rating than evasion but evasion with strong saves and decent prr and/or avoidance is viable. There is in general less emphasis on bluebar dps and more on dc's. Though blue bar dps and shiradi is still strong and viable through low reapers. There is more emphasis on party healing and keeping someone in a tank roll alive in mid and very high reapers. Traps over all are less significant than they were around the time of haunted halls, but the best most popular endgame raid, The Curse of Strahd requires a good trapper for one part. So Trappers are still relevant.

Good ways of dealing with things like constructs, undead, plants, wisps and new to you champion mobs who can have a variety of resistances is important. There are new feats, a level 29 destiny feat offers a very popular mass kill for death magic immune beasties, Mass frog. For divine casters this variety of very common imunities also adds value to spells like greater command, symbol of persuasion and commetfall. There is currently very good gear for universal spell dc's so having a variety of effective spells for different opponents from different schools can be much easier.

A new gear grind awaits you to reach the multiple school dc's needed for the higher difficulties. The good news is your build is likely good enough to jump right in on elite and reaper 1 groups and contribute if not lead the way. Play skill still matters.

This post was amazingly well written. I envy your wordsmith ability. Secondly, the content was extremely helpful. Thank you very much.

@Fivetigers33 and multipro, thank you. I read your posts and absorbed them. Thanks also to @slarden for the post links.


All information is valuable and I have much to learn (and some stuff to relearn!), but I'm very excited to do so.