Bastard Sword Not Acknowledged As A Bastard Sword By The Deity Helm?

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

So, I read that Star Of Day was a bastard sword in its own description so I bought it only to find out that it does not count as my deity's favored weapon...........

If you are going to proclaim it a bastard sword then please do let it actually count as a bastard sword?

[Selvera]

There's an interesting subset of weapons called "Sunblades" which are described as bastard swords but considered by the game to be shortswords due to how "light and easy they are to wield". Meanwhile they typically have the b-sword's 1d10 damage die. While I haven't tested out their ability to proc glancing blows too thoroughly yet; I can confirm that you can swashbuckle them; which is pretty cool. (However; swashbuckling the Celestia bugs out it's DR bypass properties unfortunately, as does a whole host of other things).

Read more about them in the description of Celestia on the wiki; and also check out the thread linked there.

[Fivetigers33]

So, I read that Star Of Day was a bastard sword in its own description so I bought it only to find out that it does not count as my deity's favored weapon...........

If you are going to proclaim it a bastard sword then please do let it actually count as a bastard sword?

You would be better off with a Morninglord bastard sword for killing undead or an Epic Spinal Tap for raw DPS. So while it is an inconsistency in the game, bastard sword users aren't missing out on too much. Alternatively you can Cannith Craft a bastard sword of the same minimum level of any of the sun blades and they should also do more dps. The only sun blade really worth mentioning when thinking in terms of bastard swords would be Celestia, but pretty much everything kills its DR breaking, so once again you aren't missing much.


Edit: If you are specifically looking for a level 20 weapon, the Epic Templar's Retribution is basically a better version of the Star of Day.

[glmfw1]

So, I read that Star Of Day was a bastard sword in its own description so I bought it only to find out that it does not count as my deity's favored weapon...........

If you are going to proclaim it a bastard sword then please do let it actually count as a bastard sword?

It's a badly executed concept - a bastard sword (slashing) that is so light weight that it can be considered as a short sword (piercing). In theory anyone with Short Sword, Long Sword or Bastard Sword proficiency (3 straight blades of increasing size) should be able to wield the weapons and gain any relevant benefits that their trees/feats would grant them if they are wielding any one of the 3 blade types.

[unbongwah]

It's one of those ideas which is easy to execute in PnP - since people aren't computers - but harder to pull off in a videogame. DDO clearly doesn't support weapons having more than one category, so we get weird platypuses like the Sunblades or Shining Crescents: typed as a sickle, functions like a staff, doesn't 100% conform to the rules of either; e.g., SWF feats work with it but not THF feats.

[PsychoBlonde]

Star of Day CLEARLY says it's a SHORT sword on the description:



The FLAVOR TEXT at the bottom is meaningless. For weapon types, always look at what's directly under the item's name.

[glmfw1]

It's one of those ideas which is easy to execute in PnP - since people aren't computers - but harder to pull off in a videogame. DDO clearly doesn't support weapons having more than one category, so we get weird platypuses like the Sunblades or Shining Crescents: typed as a sickle, functions like a staff, doesn't 100% conform to the rules of either; e.g., SWF feats work with it but not THF feats.

I suppose a way to get around the restrictions of the coding would be to have the Sunblades work as a clicky when equipped, letting you summon a short, long or bastard sword (all of which look the same, but have the appropriate typing) that is automatically equipped in place of the clicky item.
Alternatively, we could have a new quest featuring platypuses as the primary monster type, and make "weird platypuses" an official game feature

[fmalfeas]

i suppose a way to get around the restrictions of the coding would be to have the sunblades work as a clicky when equipped, letting you summon a short, long or bastard sword (all of which look the same, but have the appropriate typing) that is automatically equipped in place of the clicky item.
Alternatively, we could have a new quest featuring platypuses as the primary monster type, and make "weird platypuses" an official game feature

taste the splendor of xoriat platypi!

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Star of Day CLEARLY says it's a SHORT sword on the description:



The FLAVOR TEXT at the bottom is meaningless. For weapon types, always look at what's directly under the item's name.

I argue that the flavor text should matter........... DDO should be able to make this count as a Bastard sword for those who have more benefit for treating it as such just as with some builds you can use the higher of charisma or strength modifiers to determine bonus to hit and damage.

[glmfw1]

The FLAVOR TEXT at the bottom is meaningless. For weapon types, always look at what's directly under the item's name.

The flavour text "is" meaningless, but it shouldn't be, given how it reads. The stats above do describe it as Short Sword, which is how we have to accept it, but that doesn't mean it's right!

[glmfw1]

taste the splendor of xoriat platypi!

Now I am scared

[Niminae]

I suppose a way to get around the restrictions of the coding would be to have the Sunblades work as a clicky when equipped, letting you summon a short, long or bastard sword (all of which look the same, but have the appropriate typing) that is automatically equipped in place of the clicky item.

But the long and bastard swords would be slashing weapons, not piercing.

[Noir]

Sunblades first appeared probably in a "Dragon" Magazine but were first "officially" published
in the 1st Edition "Unearthed Arcana" in 1985.
Below is the description as written. Take from it what you will.

"Sun Blade swords are all of great size and must be treated as bastard
swords. Their dweomer is such, however, that an individual possessing
a sun blade may wield it as if it were a short sword with respect to
encumbrance, weight, speed factor, and ease of use. In other words,
the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and it inflicts
damage as if it were a true sword of that sort, but the individual using a
sun blade feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword. Any
individual able to use either a bastard sword or a short sword with proficiency
or expertise will be able to use a sun blade. In normal combat,
the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 magic
sword. Against evil creatures, its bonus is doubled to + 4. When it is
used against creatures from the Negative Material Plane or those that
draw power from that plane (such as many of the undead), the sword
will inflict double normal damage, regardless of whether the bonus of
the weapon is + 2 or + 4. Furthermore, upon command, a sun blade
can be swung vigorously through the air, and the blade will shed a
bright yellow radiance which equals full daylight. The radiance will begin
shining within a 10-foot radius around the sword-wielder and will
spread outward at 5 feet per round for 10 rounds thereafter, thus englobing
an area of 60-foot radius. Thereafter, the radiance fades to a
dim glow which persists for another 10 rounds before disappearing
entirely. This sunray power of the blade can only be used once per
day. All sun blades are of good alignment."

[glmfw1]

But the long and bastard swords would be slashing weapons, not piercing.

Exactly.
Of course the only reason they are currently piercing is because they are typed as "short sword" rather than "very lightweight bastard sword that anyone with Short Sword Proficiency can wield). At their size, irrespective of weight, slashing would be easier.

[Selvera]

Obviously the only way to solve this problem is to have the developers rewrite all sunswords into thier own weapon type and rewrite all abilities in the game that are specific to shortswords or to bastard swords so that every ability that applies to either weapon also apply to sunswords.

Or people can just accept that the helm deity and kensai heavy blade group doesn't apply to 3 or 4 lower-tier weapons, of which the best is extremely buggy in how its primary draw actually works.

Next time I see you online I can give you enough mats to craft your own light-damage level 20 b-sword which will in general do more damage and count as a bsword for your helm deity. Then you can use a mirror on your star of day.

[glmfw1]

Obviously the only way to solve this problem is to have the developers rewrite all sunswords into thier own weapon type and rewrite all abilities in the game that are specific to shortswords or to bastard swords so that every ability that applies to either weapon also apply to sunswords.

I totally agree... no more Updates to the game until the Devs have done this Definitely the best use of Dev time!!!
To be honest, while I would like the Devs to make changes so that sunswords work as designed, I think your solution of crafting/cosmetic is probably the most practical option going at the moment. Given the limited number in the game, there are many other things that could be done by the Devs that fix actual bugs rather than fix something that just doesn't fulfil potential.
As things are always changing behind the scenes though, it's worth discussing things like this, just in case some improvement/change/new-dev-with-different-coding-background has happened, that means something that was unfeasible in the past is now potentially feasible. If something that would have been a hideous rewrite would now be an easy coding change and it's brought to the Devs' attention that maybe things are not working how they could be (even though nothing's "broken"), then change could be made that would not even be on the cards if it hadn't been discussed.