Looking for Feedback - INT Color Spray Ranger

[Maelodic]

Goals:
-Damage
-Control
-AOE Damage
-Short
-Owwies to the bad guys
-Fireworks out mah fingers
-Not be dead
-Same stat for dodgey/shooty/slashy while still retaining best crit profile evar.

Drawbacks:
-Just 2 more racial AP adds +10% doublestrike.
-Sometimes people rest their arms on your head because you're short
-Elaborate parry and Etheral aren't super useful when INT based vs DEX based.

Gnome Ranger
Ranger 20
True Neutral Gnome


Stats
. . . . . . . .36pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .+8. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . .8. . . .+8. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 18. . . .+8. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 20. . . .+8. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . .8. . . .+8. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: INT

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Listen. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Jump. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Hide. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Swim. . . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Bluff . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .½ .½ .½ .½ .1 .1 .1½ 1½ 4 .11
Balance . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
Tumble. . . . . . . . . . . . .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .½ .½ . . 11
Haggle. . . .½ .½ .1 .1 .1 .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . . 11
UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .11
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .44 12 12 13 13 13 13 14 14 14 14 15 15 15 15 16 16 16 16 17


Feats

.1. . . . : Exotic Weapon: Khopesh
.3. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.6. . . . : Quicken Spell
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
15. . . . : Precision
18. . . . : Dodge
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Mobility
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Reflexes
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea

.1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.5 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
10 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Aberration


Enhancements (80+1 AP)

Tempest (41 AP)

• Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows, Whirlwind, Dervish
  1. Improved Reaction III, Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
  2. Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Whirling Blades, Sprint Boost III
  3. Improved Mobility III, Critical Mastery II
  4. The Growing Storm III
  5. Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III

Deepwood Stalker (22 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike, Advanced Sneak Attack
  1. Stealthy III, Increased Empathy I
  2. Survivalist, Melee/Range Power Boost III
  3. Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter III
  4. Killer I

Harper Agent (12 AP)

• Agent of Good I
  1. Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
  2. Versatile Adept II, Know the Angles III
  3. Strategic Combat

Gnome (6 AP)

• Gnomish Perserverance, Intelligence, Gnomish Perserverance II
  1. Wand and Scroll Mastery I
  2. Color Spray I

Destiny (24 AP)

Legendary Dreadnought

1. Legendary Tactics III, Extra Action Boost III, Constitution
2. Constitution
3. Critical Damage III, Haste Boost III, Constitution
4. (none)
5. Advancing Blows, Devastating Critical
6. Master's Blitz

Twists of Fate (35 fate points)

1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
2. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
3. Grim Precision (Tier 3 Shadowdancer)
4. Brace for Impact (Tier 1 Sentinel)

I am just a couple levels away from cap and rerolling my Druid and I'm thinkin this is going to be it. Thoughts?

[silinteresting]

do you think you will have enough illusion dc for higher levels for it to work?

your friend sil

[Maelodic]

do you think you will have enough illusion dc for higher levels for it to work?

your friend sil

Yes - it's a will save and INT will be my main stat. I haven't ever had issues getting color spray DC high enough to be useful. Several others have reported similar.

[Hjarki]

You might consider a combination like Sinister Handaxe + Vulkoor's Edge. The main hand axe lets you use Headman's Chop, making the critical profile of an off-hand Scimitar better than a Khopesh (note: the particular weapons I noted would be much better than a Khopesh). This would save you a feat.

Heighten/Spell Focus would also help to land Color Spray.

There are a lot of multi-classing options, but going pure Ranger limits what can be done.

[Maelodic]

You might consider a combination like Sinister Handaxe + Vulkoor's Edge. The main hand axe lets you use Headman's Chop, making the critical profile of an off-hand Scimitar better than a Khopesh (note: the particular weapons I noted would be much better than a Khopesh). This would save you a feat.

Heighten/Spell Focus would also help to land Color Spray.

There are a lot of multi-classing options, but going pure Ranger limits what can be done.

Heighten should raise DC by 3 and spell focus + twist should add extra 7 total. Enlarge might be good as well to increase the AOE and effectiveness.

[Maelodic]

You might consider a combination like Sinister Handaxe + Vulkoor's Edge. The main hand axe lets you use Headman's Chop, making the critical profile of an off-hand Scimitar better than a Khopesh (note: the particular weapons I noted would be much better than a Khopesh). This would save you a feat.

I'd rather build so that my leveling experience is solid - though I guess I could also just swap out at endgame if I wanted. I already have a ton of tasty heroic khopeshes.

I didn't know Headsman's Chop also gave you the crit profile for offhand but it feels like such a waste to use Sinister Handaxe in mainhand with that tasty 2W for the offhand =P

Also, doesn't Calamity do more damage than that combination?

[silinteresting]

Yes - it's a will save and INT will be my main stat. I haven't ever had issues getting color spray DC high enough to be useful. Several others have reported similar.

hmm interesting. mind is whirling here now with posibilities. enjoy the build.

your friend sil

[cru121]

Well I have a kensai swashbuckler at cap. Granted, not optimally geared. Hitting mid 80s Int with power surge up. Color Spray occasionally lands, but it's not stellar. Dire Charge lands a lot more often, for example.

[Maelodic]

Well I have a kensai swashbuckler at cap. Granted, not optimally geared. Hitting mid 80s Int with power surge up. Color Spray occasionally lands, but it's not stellar. Dire Charge lands a lot more often, for example.

How was it up until you got dire charge?

Do you have any illusion gear?

The main reason I want color spray is for CC up until dire charge, which becomes main CC at level 29.

[Kodwraith]

The plan is to use Color Spray for the AOE stun and then finish things up with melee? FWIW I am a heavy user of paralyzing arrows since they're much longer range on my IWS/DEX built ranger. They seem to hit a lot more often than I'd expect. They obviously have a much higher AP investment in AA but they come with a great weapon synergy.

FWIW I find that if I split my main attack/dmg stat (Dex) from my DC casting stat (Wis) I still can stun almsot everything IFF I have the right +SpellFocus items (Enchant for me). As such, you could go DEX based, still have a high enough INT to stun most things outside of high reaper (which needs a DC caster anyway). The upside is you save AP from harper using Dex as your attack stat. Could also save a feat and go scimitars.



Have you thought about using one of the gnomish racial weapons since you're short on AP/feats? hammers or something other than khopesh?

[Selvera]

Interesting idea. If I had to do a 4th gnome life I might have worked this into my leveling plan. Or maybe I could still fit it in instead of one of those two builds >.>

The problem with tempest leveling is, and always has been the levels 1-12. This build doesn't look like it helps at all with that; if anything making 1-12 weaker then (my) typical dex-based ranger. But the rotation of color spray stun into dance of death could be a stronger alternative (to my usual displacement + dance of death or elaborate parry + dance of death), If the AoE is right and the DC is on point. Feel free to get back to me on this one.

I'm not convinced that IC:Ranged is super important. But to each their own I guess. Sometimes a fear reaper does like to sit up on top of the maze in crucible.

If you're not going dex based, I don't see a huge draw towards scimitars or handaxes, and I'm not sure if I could ever recommend putting the sinister handaxe in the main hand... I might have to dps test but I think the forgotten axe is simply superior as a mainhand weapon. Khopeshes should work fine for this build; although I would personally wait until IC:Slashing before starting to use khopeshes.

[Maelodic]

The plan is to use Color Spray for the AOE stun and then finish things up with melee? FWIW I am a heavy user of paralyzing arrows since they're much longer range on my IWS/DEX built ranger. They seem to hit a lot more often than I'd expect. They obviously have a much higher AP investment in AA but they come with a great weapon synergy.

I feel like it'd be a bit awkward to go from paralyzing arrows to meleeing - besides the fact that I'd want to group everything up > color spray > dance of death and paralyzing arrows tends to both be difficult to stun a bunch of clustered mobs with and requires giving up the crit threat (and killer) from deepwood sniper which is a huge DPS loss, it's impossible to get Paralyzing Arrows, Crit Threat from DWS, and tempest capstone.

Paralyzing arrows do have an inherently higher save, but knowing my playstyle I'm not likely to enjoy switching between weapons a ton and trying to line up IPS so it doesn't take me a long while to get crowds controlled.

I dunno though, I'll test it on an iconic or next lama preview. If paralyzers are better might need to rethink the build. That's just a lot of wasted AP on a primarily melee toon.

FWIW I find that if I split my main attack/dmg stat (Dex) from my DC casting stat (Wis) I still can stun almsot everything IFF I have the right +SpellFocus items (Enchant for me). As such, you could go DEX based, still have a high enough INT to stun most things outside of high reaper (which needs a DC caster anyway). The upside is you save AP from harper using Dex as your attack stat. Could also save a feat and go scimitars.

Since I'd want to grab KTA anyway, and I have plenty of feats, there's very little reason not to go INT. KTA will be stronger, and the only things I'd be missing out on is evasive dance and the ability to go etheral for some competitive sneak damage.

INT also allows me to use bows+khopeshes with the same stat. Scimitars are simply worse as far as critical profile goes. It's a feat well spent on a build where feats are rather flexible.

Since INT and DEX double with just about everything but AC and hide, there's little reason to use both.

Have you thought about using one of the gnomish racial weapons since you're short on AP/feats? hammers or something other than khopesh?

No, +5 damage isn't worth the worse base damage and critical profile of the gnomish weapons. Light picks and shortswords are the standouts but they're both inferior to scimitar.

[Maelodic]

Interesting idea. If I had to do a 4th gnome life I might have worked this into my leveling plan. Or maybe I could still fit it in instead of one of those two builds >.>

The problem with tempest leveling is, and always has been the levels 1-12. This build doesn't look like it helps at all with that; if anything making 1-12 weaker then (my) typical dex-based ranger. But the rotation of color spray stun into dance of death could be a stronger alternative (to my usual displacement + dance of death or elaborate parry + dance of death), If the AoE is right and the DC is on point. Feel free to get back to me on this one.

I'm not convinced that IC:Ranged is super important. But to each their own I guess. Sometimes a fear reaper does like to sit up on top of the maze in crucible.

If you're not going dex based, I don't see a huge draw towards scimitars or handaxes, and I'm not sure if I could ever recommend putting the sinister handaxe in the main hand... I might have to dps test but I think the forgotten axe is simply superior as a mainhand weapon. Khopeshes should work fine for this build; although I would personally wait until IC:Slashing before starting to use khopeshes.

IC: Ranged I just like to have for when manyshot makes sense. When there's a bunch of archers or casters all spread out I can just sigh and pull out my silver bow and go to town. Feats are exceptionally flexible here and a lot of it is preference. IMO there's very little other than power attack you can use to make 1-12 less stupid on a ranger.

I have a lot of good lower level khopeshes which is why I take it early, but also what else would I take early?

[Hjarki]

Additional notes:

• Color Spray has a larger area, shorter cooldown and shorter activation time than Dire Charge. The multiple effects also impact a broader array of content. It lands consistently on virtually everything in game that can be affected by the various effects… if your DC is high enough. However, my last melee character with Color Spray had ~+20 DC over what this build will deliver - my gut instinct is that Color Spray will be problematic at higher levels with so few bonuses to DC.
• Paralyzing Arrows don’t render enemies helpless while Color Spray does. Color Spray also Blinds, creating Sneak Attack opportunities.
• Sinister Handaxe doesn’t suffer penalties from main hand use - it just receives a bonus in the off-hand. The main reason I mentioned it is that it’s currently the best one-handed weapon that triggers Headman’s Chop.
• With Tempest, TWF is going to fire off attacks 2.5x as often as archery. Doublestrike/Melee Power is higher than Doubleshot/Ranged Power and the critical profile of melee weapons is significantly better (remember, not +critical multiplier for bows). This means that melee damage is likely to be higher even during Manyshot.
• Khopesh vs. everything else. Scimitar is 14-20/x3 (33), Light Pick is 18-20/x5 (31) and Khopesh is 16-20/x4 (34). This makes Khopesh ~3% better than Scimitar, ~10% better than Light Pick. -2 from oversized weapons is ~-0.8% penalty. The benefit of hit from Light Pick is worth ~2%. The damage on Light Pick compensates for the lower die type. Of current weapons, Legendary Vulkoor’s Edge is the best (aside from Vulnerability), Calamity/Planar Spike are a little bit worse. The reason Light Pick is tempting is that it allows you to invest far fewer points in Deepwood Stalker - and far more in Gnome to get the bonuses to Illusion DC. Note that VKF is always an option, but it largely just replaces Deepwood Stalker and leaves you in the same place.
• I’d give Shadowdancer a serious look. Since there aren’t any key features for the build in any Destiny, you can switch back and forth as needed. The additional defensive bonuses are nice, you get your main stat in tree, the damage is far closer than many people believe and the importance of hit at cap actually makes Pierce the Gloom a decent (if situational) dps cooldown.

[Maelodic]

Additional notes:[*]Color Spray has a larger area, shorter cooldown and shorter activation time than Dire Charge. The multiple effects also impact a broader array of content. It lands consistently on virtually everything in game that can be affected by the various effects… if your DC is high enough. However, my last melee character with Color Spray had ~+20 DC over what this build will deliver - my gut instinct is that Color Spray will be problematic at higher levels with so few bonuses to DC.

So you'd recommend heighten+spell focus+wiz twist+gnome enhancements?

The reason Light Pick is tempting is that it allows you to invest far fewer points in Deepwood Stalker - and far more in Gnome to get the bonuses to Illusion DC. Note that VKF is always an option, but it largely just replaces Deepwood Stalker and leaves you in the same place.

I don't consider light pick an option with 3+ racial AP as you're losing the huge 20% doublestrike in killer but for me who's not particularly savvy on doing 6 more lives for that, this seems like a pretty good option then. I have some rather old festival icy burst wounding of puncturing picks I could use for heroics =P

[*]I’d give Shadowdancer a serious look. Since there aren’t any key features for the build in any Destiny, you can switch back and forth as needed. The additional defensive bonuses are nice, you get your main stat in tree, the damage is far closer than many people believe and the importance of hit at cap actually makes Pierce the Gloom a decent (if situational) dps cooldown.

I'll give it another look. I've always liked it so this probably won't be different.

[Selvera]

IC: Ranged I just like to have for when manyshot makes sense. When there's a bunch of archers or casters all spread out I can just sigh and pull out my silver bow and go to town. Feats are exceptionally flexible here and a lot of it is preference. IMO there's very little other than power attack you can use to make 1-12 less stupid on a ranger.

I have a lot of good lower level khopeshes which is why I take it early, but also what else would I take early?

I had said that I wouldn't take exotic weapon khopesh because I have a pair of tiefling assassin blades; which I believe to be better then any khopesh could possibly be between levels 4 and 8 for this build (except for maybe a vorpal khopesh of keen). while my own khopeshes are very much level 10+ (partially due to this). If you have a bunch of good low level khopeshes and not tiefling's; go ahead and take exotic weapon early.

If I were to run this build given my items and preferences; my list of feats might go something a bit more like this:

.1. : Precision (A lot of low level quests have undead; which have 100% fortification)
.3. : Insightful Reflexes (Not super high priority since you don't have evasion yet, but even taking half damage often is nice)
.6. : Exotic Weapon: Khopesh (So that you have it ready for when I start using khopeshes at level 9)
.9. : Improved Critical: Slashing
12. : Quicken Spell (I usually don't find that I need this; but on rare occasions it's nice to have. Also free for the SLA).
15. : Improved Critical: Ranged (I might not even take this, but I'm mirroring the feats in your build, just messing with the build order).

[Hjarki]

So you'd recommend heighten+spell focus+wiz twist+gnome enhancements?

Probably yes. I can't guarantee you'll run into problems later on, but I think you probably will. A lot of the feats you took aren't really high impact feats since you've already got the entire combat style from free Ranger feats, so fitting in Heighten/Spell Focus is fairly easy.

You might also look into Quickdraw. I don't have precise numbers for it, but it should grant a dps improvement when you're interleaving melee and SLAs. Whether or not it's a worthwhile dps improvement, I'm not sure.

I don't consider light pick an option with 3+ racial AP as you're losing the huge 20% doublestrike in killer but for me who's not particularly savvy on doing 6 more lives for that, this seems like a pretty good option then. I have some rather old festival icy burst wounding of puncturing picks I could use for heroics =P

Technically, you're losing 10% doublestrike. However, I'm not a big fan of Picks either - I was just reacting to the fact that there isn't much room with regard to enhancements... and that barely-enough-for-1-point-in-Color-Spray investment probably isn't going to work long-term both in terms of DC and in terms of SP cost.

I think I might be looking at the problem in a different way than you are. If Color Spray isn't a useful tool throughout the character's lifetime, then there really isn't much reason to pick Gnome in the first place. My inclination is to ensure Color Spray is useable... and then figure out how to eek out the maximum dps. Taking 41 points in Tempest, 21+ points in DWS, 12 points in Harper doesn't leave much flexibility.

[Maelodic]

Technically, you're losing 10% doublestrike. However, I'm not a big fan of Picks either - I was just reacting to the fact that there isn't much room with regard to enhancements... and that barely-enough-for-1-point-in-Color-Spray investment probably isn't going to work long-term both in terms of DC and in terms of SP cost.

The DC of color spray doesn't change on rank. I've also always had more spell points than I know what to do with on a ranger. I don't usually end up spending even half my sp on healing.

That being said, I'm fully expecting to put the extra 2 points in color spray while leveling and then switch them out at cap when I have more sp to burn.

I think I might be looking at the problem in a different way than you are. If Color Spray isn't a useful tool throughout the character's lifetime, then there really isn't much reason to pick Gnome in the first place. My inclination is to ensure Color Spray is useable... and then figure out how to eek out the maximum dps. Taking 41 points in Tempest, 21+ points in DWS, 12 points in Harper doesn't leave much flexibility.

I also think we're targeting different content. Color spray lands well without much investment throughout the majority of the leveling experience. Tested it was landing just fine in most epic elite content as well. I don't expect to be using it much in the harder content, because I simply don't solo the harder content and that's when I can rely more on dire charge or swap out the racial AP for more killer stacks.

I'll evaluate the pick situation and see. Gnome racial AP would add potentially 4 DC, heighten 3, spell focus 1, Magister twist 3 for a total of 11.

I'm planning on running toxic treatment several times on my Druid- if I manage to pull the scimmies or picks it may influence my decision.

EDIT: What does your color spray melee look like?

[Hjarki]

The DC of color spray doesn't change on rank.

I was referring to illusion focus.

EDIT: What does your color spray melee look like?

I actually did two runs through - one was 17/3 Wizard/Bard and the other was 16/3/1 Bard/Fighter/Rogue. The benefit of Bard was that you get boosts to DC at relatively low levels and you can more easily integrate Int-to-damage in your fighting style. The benefit of the Wizard approach is that you have an enormous arsenal of Int-based support material (which, admittedly, I rarely used because Color Spray is so good).

[Maelodic]

I actually did two runs through - one was 17/3 Wizard/Bard and the other was 16/3/1 Bard/Fighter/Rogue. The benefit of Bard was that you get boosts to DC at relatively low levels and you can more easily integrate Int-to-damage in your fighting style. The benefit of the Wizard approach is that you have an enormous arsenal of Int-based support material (which, admittedly, I rarely used because Color Spray is so good).

The main draw to me for ranger is dance of death, and also the really good damage. I don't really want to give up either but I also want some solid CC before dire charge and color spray seems like a better/easier option then doing the Tilo soundburst craziness.

I'm not sure there's a much better approach for what I want to be doing for the content I'm running (Mostly solo elite/r1). I guess I could try a 12 Fighter/6 Ranger/2 Monk (or rogue) approach for power surge but I feel like you lose a lot.