"Guardian angel", a 18 Paladin, 1 FVS, 1 WIZ Aasimar build.

[contantinos1990]

Race: Aasimar.

Stats: Max CON, then STR and CHA. All level ups in CON.

Heroic Feats:
Power Attack, Sovereign Host, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved critical slashing, Quicken, Khopesh, Shield Mastery, Improved shield mastery.

Epic Feats:
Overwhelming critical, Combat expertise, Epic Damage Reduction, Bulwark of Defense.

Epic destiny feats:
Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, Elusive Target, Deific Warding, Scion of Arborea.

Enhancements:

4 AP in Eldrich Knight for the 10% AC spell and a 3rd cleave.
4 AP in Warsoul for Divine might.
18 AP in the Aasimar tree for the stance Protector: You gain +3 stacking bonus to all Saving Throws, 10% Competence Bonus to Max HP, and a +10 Determination Bonus to PRR and MRR. and for all the healing amplification enhancements.
The rest of our enhancement points can go in the sacred defender tree.

Leveling order, leave the fvs, wiz level for after level 12.

Why to choose this build:

Defences:

HP: The best in game since the stances stack. 10% determination bonus from Aasimar, 20% sacred bonus from Sacred defender, 20% insight bonus from Unyielding Sentinel.

AC: The best in game since we use use the % AC increasing enhancements from the Sacred defender tree, the 10% bonus from the eldrich knight enhancement tree and we can activate Combat expertise for 10% more if we want to lose Power Attack.

PRR/MRR: Fighters can get feats for a total of 30 PRR/MRR. Paladins can get Harbored by Light which is a tier 5 sacred defender enhancement for 25PRR/MRR. We also get another 10PRR/MRR from Redemption and Glorious Stand, the 3rd and 4th core enhancements in the Sacred defender enhancement tree. We only have 10 less than pure paladins. IMO 10% more AC is better than 10PRR/MRR. ANW, we are going to have more than fighters so we are good.

Saves: The best in game.

Offence:

We will have low dps but:

3 cleaves give some aoe dmg.

Zeal and holy sword, paladin's level 14 and 15 spells give crit multiplier, threat range and 10% doublestrike.

Shield Mastery and Improved shield mastery feats give 8% doublestrike. Legendary Shield Mastery from Unyielding Sentinel gives another 7% doublestrike.

Divine might gives some dmg.

Tier 5 Sacred defender give 10 dmg when attacked and 6 STR.

Being a melee in epics means you can use the prowess filigree for 100 melee power for 10 sec every time you use an action boost. That action boost will be the haste boost from Legendary dreadnaut.

We use khopeshes which have a good crit profile. Bastard swords or Dwarven axes give glancing blows but glancing blows don't work well without the two handed fighting feats. We don't have room for those feats.

Aggro Management:

Just Intimidate mobs.
If we want more we have some options:
Commanding Presence: +50/100/150% Threat Generation from Sentinel.
Inciting Defense: When in Sacred Defense, you gain [50/100/150]% Sacred bonus to melee threat generation from the sacred defender enhancement tree.
Sacred Defence: Defensive Combat Stance: +50% bonus to threat generation

Why to play this build?

Simply because it's one of the best tank builds out there if not the best. High HP, the highest AC, really high PRR/MRR
Tolerable (Hopefully) aoe dps.
Some self healing from the Aasimar's healing hands, the paladin's lay on hands, healing spells and good healing amplification.
Some of the time it has wings!

[Hjarki]

Immediate thoughts:

• Aasimar. You need 2160 base hit points (i.e. before multiplicative bonuses) for Aasimar > Dwarf for raw hit points. Renegade Mastermaker and Nature's Protector are also options that might out-hp this approach (although they come with drawbacks of their own). Aasimar is certainly a good choice, but there are other possible choices.
• Warsoul. Paladins get Divine Might from KoTC so I'm not sure why you'd multi-class for it. You might multi-class for Divine Presence, but you don't really have tactical abilities and there are probably better uses you could put that level to than getting a smidge more damage.
• Khopesh. You mention Bastard Swords/Dwarven Axes but conclude you don't have the feats. However, Paladins get Cleaves from KoTC, so you could very easily save yourself 3 feats right there. That's not counting almost uselessly weak feats like Bulwark of Defense.
• Scion of Arborea. Celestia, Cold, Fire, Earth and Feywild all provide defensive benefits while Arborea doesn't.
• 10% more AC. +10 PRR @ 350 PRR is about 2.2% less damage. +10% AC @ 350 AC is probably in the 2% - 5% range against enemies that matter, reduced by whatever you have for other avoidance (Incorporeality, Concealment, Dodge, etc.). However, PRR adds to effective maximum hit points while AC does not. Healing Amplification also tends to be more efficient than AC (at the stat levels we're talking about) in terms of longevity in the fight. The same sort of argument applies to Combat Expertise - it sounds a lot better than it is.
• Elusive Target. This is almost strictly worse than Fount of Life. Both only increase your durability over time - Fount of Life just does it better.
• Action Boosts. You're going to need a lot more than a single action boost if you plan to keep that filigree going.

With dps builds, normally you have a few tentpoles that are qualitatively distinct and impose severe constraints on the build. This makes choosing abilities relatively simple because you're forced to take the tentpoles and only have to compare abilities within reach of them.

With tanks, you're mostly just doing a quantitative optimization of a lump of stats without any particular allegiance to one ability over another. This makes it hard to build effectively unless you're comprehensively breaking down everything - including gear and what specific abilities you're taking everywhere. For example, above I had to guess at what your PRR/AC would be in order to compare the value of grabbing a bit extra of either. If you're optimizing a tank build you can't just guess - you have to know those numbers to make the decision.


Normally, tank builds need to be comprehensively broken down to determine exactly what's best because you've got complex, layered defenses - including gearing choices, etc. Unlike dps builds, there are relatively few qualitative breakpoints that you absolutely need for the build to work - you're basically just trying to pile up a multitude of stats in the most effective manner rather than pick specific abilities.

[contantinos1990]

Immediate thoughts:

• Aasimar. You need 2160 base hit points (i.e. before multiplicative bonuses) for Aasimar > Dwarf for raw hit points. Renegade Mastermaker and Nature's Protector are also options that might out-hp this approach (although they come with drawbacks of their own). Aasimar is certainly a good choice, but there are other possible choices.

• Aasimar offers 90 healing amp at level 30 when the Divine Purpose is active and 60 at all times.
  10% more hp stance.
  10 PRR 10 MRR.
  +3 To saves.
  All those for just 18 AP.
  There isn't any other race that gives more for just 18 AP.

[*]Warsoul. Paladins get Divine Might from KoTC so I'm not sure why you'd multi-class for it. You might multi-class for Divine Presence, but you don't really have tactical abilities and there are probably better uses you could put that level to than getting a smidge more damage.

Paladin's divine might costs 7 AP minimum, the fvs one can cost 3 or 4 AP.
So we save 3 AP. That's the only reason we take the fvs level. If I could, say I had 9 racial past lives for 3 AP, I would get rid of the FVS level and go 15 pally, 1 wiz, 4 fighter for more feats.

[*]Khopesh. You mention Bastard Swords/Dwarven Axes but conclude you don't have the feats. However, Paladins get Cleaves from KoTC, so you could very easily save yourself 3 feats right there. That's not counting almost uselessly weak feats like Bulwark of Defense.

To get the cleaves from KOTC you need to give up tier 5 sacred defender so you will lose 50% shield AC and to spend lots of AP for trash abilities in that tree to get there. If I get rid of 3 other feats let's say Bulwark of Defense, Khopesh proficieancy and idk what else, probably quicken or combat expertise, It might work but at what level? With Khopeshes you get to use them from level 12. At what level will bastard swords have the full THF line? The lowest I can imagine is level 24.

[*]Scion of Arborea. Celestia, Cold, Fire, Earth and Feywild all provide defensive benefits while Arborea doesn't.

You're right, other scions might be better.
This doesn't matter much as it's a ML30 feat. It is a tough choice, everything you mentioned looks good. Just said arbolea cz that's what most melee players get.

[*]10% more AC. +10 PRR @ 350 PRR is about 2.2% less damage. +10% AC @ 350 AC is probably in the 2% - 5% range against enemies that matter, reduced by whatever you have for other avoidance (Incorporeality, Concealment, Dodge, etc.). However, PRR adds to effective maximum hit points while AC does not. Healing Amplification also tends to be more efficient than AC (at the stat levels we're talking about) in terms of longevity in the fight. The same sort of argument applies to Combat Expertise - it sounds a lot better than it is.

In order to have the best AC in game, you need to have the combat expertise 10% more AC option and the wiz level for the other 10% more AC buff. Remember that we get 50% shield AC, 15% more shield AC and 50% more heavy armor AC. Those are all % bonuses and they stack. Enhancements in Sacred defender give +8 AC, +20 AC from sentinel, +4 from Bulwark of defence. +10% AC at endgame if ravenloft set.
Heal amp is huge, I agree, that's why Aasimar!

[*]Elusive Target. This is almost strictly worse than Fount of Life. Both only increase your durability over time - Fount of Life just does it better.

Ok, I take this advice and change my OP.

[*]Action Boosts. You're going to need a lot more than a single action boost if you plan to keep that filigree going.

Maby twisting another clickie or more action boost uses can help.

DPS is the weak point of this build.
But you have the best saves in game.
The best AC in game.
The best PRR/MRR only losing to pure Aasimar paladins who will lose 10% AC and a cleave if no Wizard level, who will beat you for 2CON, 2CHA, 10PRR/MRR.
The best hp. Other builds might get more idk but, the 10% Aasimar stance will get you more hp eventually as you earn reaper points and more hp. Other classes don't get zeal and holy sword. Other classes don't get the PRR/MRR or the AC % bonuses paladins can get.

[Hjarki]

Aasimar offers 90 healing amp at level 30 when the Divine Purpose is active and 60 at all times.
10% more hp stance.
10 PRR 10 MRR.
+3 To saves.
All those for just 18 AP.
There isn't any other race that gives more for just 18 AP.

The reason I mentioned Dwarf is that it gives about half the % increase for hit points, more raw hit points and Radiant Forcefield. It also allows you to use Constitution for damage. As a result, it's a common choice for tanks. I'm not saying one is better than another, but I was pointing out that for Aasimar to be the 'highest hit point choice', you'd generally need an unrealistically large number of hit points prior to multiplicative modifiers.

To get the cleaves from KOTC you need to give up tier 5 sacred defender so you will lose 50% shield AC and to spend lots of AP for trash abilities in that tree to get there.

Exalted Cleave is T2, the same as Divine Might. If you wanted to go beyond T2, most of the abilities would be offensively focused but you'd also pick up a pile of Healing Amplification.

It might work but at what level? With Khopeshes you get to use them from level 12. At what level will bastard swords have the full THF line? The lowest I can imagine is level 24.

Bastard Swords/Dwarven Waraxes are perfectly acceptable weapons even without the THF line. Indeed, due to the combination of higher base die type and baseline glancing blows, they'll generally out-damage Khopeshes until relatively late in the leveling curve when the multiplicative benefits of better critical profiles start to kick in. Khopesh isn't an unreasonable choice, but there are other ones - especially when you consider that most tanks would just happily use a Long Sword because they don't care much about damage.

This doesn't matter much as it's a ML30 feat.

Tanks aren't particularly common in DDO except for raiding at cap, so it could be argued that level 30 performance is the only thing that really matters. Why would you bring a tank to pre-30 content when you can just replace them with a dps?

But you have the best saves in game.
The best AC in game.
The best PRR/MRR only losing to pure Aasimar paladins who will lose 10% AC and a cleave if no Wizard level, who will beat you for 2CON, 2CHA, 10PRR/MRR.
The best hp. Other builds might get more idk but, the 10% Aasimar stance will get you more hp eventually as you earn reaper points and more hp. Other classes don't get zeal and holy sword. Other classes don't get the PRR/MRR or the AC % bonuses paladins can get.

I know you don't have the best hit point. I'm relatively certain you don't have the best AC and the best PRR/MRR, but I don't have a build in mind off-hand that has better.

What I've been trying to express is that there isn't a "best AC, best PRR/MRR, best hp" build. Whatever build you choose has to compromise between those stats somehow - and probably all three. I'd also consider Healing Amplification generally more important than AC in a tank because you get more bang for your buck. So it's not a matter of "you're doing it wrong, do it my way instead" so much as I'm encouraging you to actually break down all the options rather than just assume because it looks good at the 10,000-foot level it will perform well once you're actually incorporating all your gear/enhancements/twists/etc.