BlackRazor could be better.......

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Personally I was hoping you guys would make Blackrazor a Bastard sword or at least make it so it also came in bastard sword form.

If any weapon would be able to have......

*Soul Food (Special variant of Trap The Soul that turns enemies into sentient gem food worth up to 10 sentient experience per gem)
*Vampirism
*BlackRazor's Entropy: This weapon deals untyped damage and on criticals it deals constitution damage in addition.
*Chance to cast Evard's Black Tentacles On Successful Critical (Hidden)
*Gift Of Blackrazor: You are now immune to fear, blindness, and charm effects and you regenerate 2-4 Hit Points every 15 seconds.

That weapon would be BlackRazor......... please make it happen!


These quotes give us clues on what Black Razor should/could be

"The sword Blackrazor was also part of the adventure White Plume Mountain. The sword was an intelligent and evil blade that encouraged its wielder to kill indiscriminately, eagerly devouring the souls of those it slew."

"Blackrazor has a +3 enhancement bonus, and when wielded grants regeneration and immunity to Charm and Fear effects. It has a chance with each hit to drain the target's life force (levels) and convert it into healing energy and a temporary boost of speed and strength for the wielder."


“Ye who hold the razor's blade
Forged of darkest iron
Quenched by blood and fear,
Know that ye hold the key
To the one who guards
Bhaal's sacred murdered tear.”
— The genie's riddle

[Arkat]

Blackrazor has been a greatsword since White Plume Mountain was created for AD&D in 1979. Even through all the other versions of D&D, Blackrazor is a greatsword.

I would NOT support it being anything but a greatsword.

[psykopeta]

/not signed

We don't need every update to bring the best piece in slot, we need more variety of options, want all that stuff? Ok, cap the weapon damage to 1 and put some not insane dc on the abilities, we don't need to keep vaporizing content

Seriously sentient xp? I would say i have no jewels over lvl 3, getting even 1 sentient xp on vorpal would be just broken

[Rykka]

Blackrazor has been a greatsword since White Plume Mountain was created for AD&D in 1979. Even through all the other versions of D&D, Blackrazor is a greatsword.

I would NOT support it being anything but a greatsword.

The original 1979 Blackrazor was a "sword". The type was left to the DM. For DDO, I would have prefered to see it be a Falchion or maybe a Scimitar.

[Rykka]

For reference here's the OG Blackrazor in all it's OP glory (Whelm was OP as well).

Blackrazor, a +3 chaotic neutral sword, intelligence 17, ego
16. Purpose: to suck souls. It is a black sword that shines like a
piece of night sky filled with stars, and it is sheathed in a black
scabbard decorated with pieces of cut obsidian. On a killing
stroke, Blackrazor temporarily adds the number of levels of
the dead foe to its bearer‘s levels (in terms of fighting ability).
The bearer also temporarily gains the full hit points of the
victim. All subsequent damage to the sword’s wielder is
removed from the added hit points first. The extra levels and
hit points last a number of turns equal to the number of levels
received. The souls of all entities killed by Blackrazor are
sucked out and devoured; those killed by the black sword
cannot be raised.
For every three days the sword remains “unfed’, its ego
increases by one point, until it can compel its bearer to kill a
human or humanoid being. Upon feeding, its ego returns to
16.

The DM will note that Blackrazor is a negatiie-energy entii
that exists by absorbing positiie life energy levels from those it
kills. However, if it even strikes a negatie-energy being like an
undead (except for ghouls and ghasts), it will work in reverse,
transferring one level and corresponding hit points from the
wielder to the creature attacked. It will do this each time that it
strikes. Under these conditions, the wielder can actually die
and have his soul sucked out by his own sword. If the wielder
survives, he will need a restoration spell or twice the usual
number of levels received from positive “kills” to replace the
lost levels. Those killed for replacement must be of the same
race as the sword-wielder. Blackrazor (and you, the DM) may
very well keep this little drawback a secret until the first time the
sword bites into a wight or a vampire. The DM must remember
that Blackrazor exists solely to feel power and souls coursing
through itself, and sometimes it may not be too picky about
where the energy is coming from.

In addition to the above, the sword has the following powers:

Speech and telepathy (common and whatever tongues its
wielder knows, which it learns telepathically)
Detects living creatures (souls), 60’ r.
Haste spell (bearer only, 10 rounds), once per day
100% magic resistance to charm and fear (exact percentage
chance of resistance will depend on the level of the opponent
casting such a spell)

[Rykka]

Should also note the 100% Magic Resistance vs Charm and Fear would most closely equate to a limited form of Spell Resistance (that only worked vs Charm or Fear) in DDO. It wouldn't be a ridiculous amount either as the value would drop by 5% per enemy caster level above 11 and in DDO that would probably just equate to whatever a normal SR +insSR at enchantment level would earn you.

[Arkat]

The original 1979 Blackrazor was a "sword".

True. I missed that.

I'd agree that one could argue it was up to the DM what kind of sword it actually was. Hindsight lasting almost 30 years, however, shows us the fact that from 2nd Edition to 5th Edition it's been a Two-Handed Sword or a Greatsword. The illustration on the back cover of the actual 1st Edition module has also led me to believe it's always been a Greatsword...

[Rykka]

True. I missed that.

I'd agree that one could argue it was up to the DM what kind of sword it actually was. Hindsight lasting almost 30 years, however, shows us the fact that from 2nd Edition to 5th Edition it's been a Two-Handed Sword or a Greatsword. The illustration on the back cover of the actual 1st Edition module has also led me to believe it's always been a Greatsword...

That pic always looked like it would be a Bastard Sword to me.

TBH I was hoping WPM was going to be a standalone raid, like Tempest Spine. Maybe have some wilderness area. That mostly because I wanted these classic weapons to be a little OP. But given their stats it looks like WPM is just gonna be another quest. Kindof a shame.

[Cetus]

This weapon needs situational usefulness. It should not be better than the current end-game THF'ers. However, there need to be encounter types where it would be situationally better.

Right now it's a bank item. It's essentially an ordinary vorpal greatsword.

[Jetrule]

I hate to be that guy but the sword is a iconic d&d weapon. Used and beloved by many players of the table top game for decades. It needs the same primacy of place and be either the best weapon of its type or as noted situationaly the best weapon of its type.

Its lore based abilities call for it to stack something like a assassins killer buff. And a uber vorpal of something like vorpal 2 heroic and vorpal 5 legendary. The on hit vorpal drains a level and grants 15 heroic temp hitpoints and 100 legendary. When it strikes undead it deals a base negative damage to the wielder equal to the monsters CR.

[Rykka]

This weapon needs situational usefulness. It should not be better than the current end-game THF'ers. However, there need to be encounter types where it would be situationally better.

Right now it's a bank item. It's essentially an ordinary vorpal greatsword.

Have you played with it any? If so what did you think of the attack animation on lamma? I'm not much of a 2HSw user, but it felt clunky to me.

[Cetus]

Have you played with it any? If so what did you think of the attack animation on lamma? I'm not much of a 2HSw user, but it felt clunky to me.

Yea I used it, it didn't take long for me to ditch it. It's food for my jewel.

[Duhboy]

Pretty much the Blackrazor is another banked x2 crit greatsword. The stealer of souls is a joke. You have to have the killing blow in order to gain the buff that lasts for 30 secs that stacks but if you unequip it or block you lose it. Good luck gaining any stacks with insta killers in your group. What would be better is when you hit any enemies with Blackrazor they get Blackrazor's Grip that gives mobs a debuff that lasts for 3 secs and when killed gives you the defeated soul. The Vorpal and untyped damage on it is meh at best.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

signed/

I think the devs should be free to do whatever they want with it.
The flavor text is fulfilled in our current design for the weapon.

The weapon does not feel inspired though.
I think a 200 temp hp on kill + a better stacking buff + crit profile of at least a falchion would help a lot.

Cheers!

[JOTMON]

Personally I was hoping you guys would make Blackrazor a Bastard sword or at least make it so it also came in bastard sword form.

No point in it being a bastard sword, there is already



which is already more blackrazor than the insult they are trying to pawn off as blackrazor.


Even this level 20 qstaff is more in theme with blackrazor.



in its current form its [expletive]...
worthless damage profile, Sovereign Vorpal, like some basic random drop which has nothing to do with the core essence of what blackrazer is supposed be.

All I see here is a cosmetic at best.
Blackrazer is supposed to be an Iconic weapon.. not pathetic..
They have to go back to the drawing board on this one if they have any chance of recovering form this affront.




This is what Blackrazor should be more like..

~snip~

I would think to align better into DDO some of these effects could be tied to the sentience bonus set affiliated to the weapon..

Base Blackrazer weapon (without sentience filigree upgrades)
Use a Drow Greatsword of the Weapon Master as a base (there is currently no greatsword here.. extrapolate based on other Drow weapons ) instead of keen.. better base/crit profile..
Taint of Evil (or chaoticly aligned)
~Vampirism 4
~Life stealing
~Trap the soul proc chance like the Vacuum from Greensteel.

Blackrazer soul gem.
Filigrees
2 piece - Demonic Might
3 piece - Relentless Fury
4 piece - Greater Heroism (and/or a modified protection from evil that actually works)
5 piece - Vampiric Bond: At Weapon Bond 100+, your weapon provides you 20 temporary hitpoints when you damage an enemy. These Temporary hit Points scales with 200% Melee Power. This can trigger at most once every 12/9/6 seconds. (copied from the Barbarian enhancement tree Occult Slayer T5)
Give melee the benefit of being able to scale effects with melee power.

[Aelonwy]

This is what Blackrazor should be more like..

I definitely like the idea of Blackrazor having the drow weapon stats.
So it would be naturally 17-20x2 without keen

Since they have the limit 4 effects policy, what if they brought back one of the effects from just after MotU? I'm thinking Obscenity which was Evil Burst, Negative Energy Spike, and Life Stealing. There was also Blasphemy which was Unholy Burst and Evil Burst. And the Destroyer which was Evil Blast and Absolute Chaos.

The point is they could use an old effect that does more than one thing or create a new one that has the Oomph that such an iconic weapon requires.

*joking here* how about an effect called Blasphemous Obscene Destroyer - Evil Burst, Evil Blast, Negative Energy Spike, Life Stealing of Absolute Chaos.

[Cetus]

Even the updated version is sentient weapon food.

On R10, it's going to be laughably weak with that crit profile. At most, you get a few points of melee power and damage if the casters don't instakill your targets, which mean nothing anyway with the R10 debuff.

It doesn't bypass fortification, doesn't add any vulnerabilities, doesn't break DR, doesn't provide any temporary hitpoints, the mind-control immune stuff is not anything I care about as a THF melee.

So....yea. It is what it is.

[lyrecono]

Even the updated version is sentient weapon food.

On R10, it's going to be laughably weak with that crit profile. At most, you get a few points of melee power and damage if the casters don't instakill your targets, which mean nothing anyway with the R10 debuff.

It doesn't bypass fortification, doesn't add any vulnerabilities, doesn't break DR, doesn't provide any temporary hitpoints, the mind-control immune stuff is not anything I care about as a THF melee.

So....yea. It is what it is.

The devs haven't responded to anny of the dps related issues in this thread, it's clear they aren't going to do anything meaningfull with the feedback. In any other case with another company, people would have protested by not buying this pack.
But lets be honnest, people act like sheep.
Fall out over the prices of +8 tomes? They get linked llike crazy in channel.
Devs ignoring feedback on this pack? It will sell like hot cackes.
The community is too small and too divided to demand quality.
Ahhh, back in the day we protested on the wayfinder bridge because it was a worthy cause, now you couldn'get enoug people to protest over this sword thing.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

No point in it being a bastard sword, there is already



which is already more blackrazor than the insult they are trying to pawn off as blackrazor.


Even this level 20 qstaff is more in theme with blackrazor.



in its current form its [expletive]...
worthless damage profile, Sovereign Vorpal, like some basic random drop which has nothing to do with the core essence of what blackrazer is supposed be.

All I see here is a cosmetic at best.
Blackrazer is supposed to be an Iconic weapon.. not pathetic..
They have to go back to the drawing board on this one if they have any chance of recovering form this affront.




This is what Blackrazor should be more like..

Yeah..... honestly wouldn't mind it if they just altered Nightmare The Fallen Moon to create a level 9 and 29 version of Blackrazor.... would actually excite me. Nightmare The Fallen Moon is my favorite weapon in the game, my second favorite is The Legendary Wave Of Despair in which let's face it if that poison damage was replaced with force damage and it was given the vampirism effect that Nightmare The Fallen moon has, it would be to die for..... Yeah I'm a huge fan of Bastard swords... guilty!

[Noir]

The original 1979 Blackrazor was a "sword". The type was left to the DM. For DDO, I would have prefered to see it be a Falchion or maybe a Scimitar.

Blackrazor is listed as a "sword" but in first edition AD&D the DM would roll percentile dice to determine sword types.

Excerpt from the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide:
Treasure (Random Determination)
Table III G SWORDS

"Note: 70% of swords are longswords, 2% are broadswords, 5% are short
(small) swords, 4% are bastard swords, 1% are two-handed swords."

The chance for "Blackrazor" to ever be a Bastard Sword was very slim.

Later Editions specifically listed the sword as a "Greatsword."

Excerpt from the 3.5e "Arms and Equipment Guide":

"Blackrazor is a +3 greatsword
whose blade resembles a
piece of the night sky studded with strange stars. It
has the ability to detect living creatures within a 60-
foot radius; this works in a similar fashion to the
detect thoughts spell, but it can determine only the presence
or absence of creatures."


Blackrazor (5E):

Weapon (greatsword), legendary (requires attunement by a creature of non-lawful alignment)