U39 Preview 1: Crystal Cove Loot Revamp

[Annex]

I think the updated 'Spyglass' trinket thingy should be a book called, 'The Pirate's Code'. The description could read something like, "This weather beaten, rum stained Captain's Logbook contains The Pirate's Code, the collected wisdom of many a pirate of the Thunder Sea. They are not so much rules as guidelines." It would nicely tie together the pirate theme of the event, the new thrust of the item, and give a nod to a certain person who said the exact same thing about his game.

[Dreppo]

This may have been suggested already in this thread (I can't sift through all 10 pages) but:

- Add Festive +2 DEX and Festive +2 CHA augments to Crystal Cove.
- Later you can add Festive +2 STR and Festive +2 CON augments to Midwinter Festival to complete the assortment.

(Festive +2 INT and Festive +2 WIS augments are available in Night Revels.)

[Xgya]

Switched to Wisdom, that spyglass goes from useful to awesome.
I might have to change some of my stuff around, but exceptional skill bonuses are rare and awesome.

I probably won't use or need the level 4 one (it kinda takes the same spot as my ioun stone), but I'd TOTALLY trade the skill bonuses for 1 point of int at level 8.

I'd also recommend having one for anyone WITHOUT said stone. New trappers will find the skill bonuses, well, exceptional.

I also second the "wis, not dex" sentiment. With the current state of stealth, the dex bonus would be quite minimal.

[Yamani]

Fine, fine, you guys have made your point. Wis skills, not dex skills :P

Well its only a swap to for when I need a boost for trapping anyways.

[jetster11]

I appreciate the tons of feedback in this thread! Truth be told, I thought you guys would be more interested in the U39 stuff than CC, but hey, live and learn I'll be sorting through U39 item feedback after I post this, so if you've got something to chip in for that thread, please do so

Firstly, there are two new items in CC to round out the weapons - a Quarterstaff and a driftwood Dagger. Details on those TBD, but you are definitely right, the limited item suite is a bit weird. CC caters to Swashbucklers and shortsword users and... that's kinda it. Adding a Quarterstaff and Dagger is a good way of broadening it out a bit. We need more Quarterstaves in all the levels. Plus, everyone likes daggers.

And now, to the part I'm sure you're excited for, I'm back with version 4... 5? _{I've lost count please send help} of the Spyglass. I'm sure I'm butchering the formatting here, but here's the dirty deets:

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional Int Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Exceptional Dex Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

True Seeing got dropped down a level to 12. Insightful Int is back in epic levels. The rest of the item is now what it was before in broad design - a passive trinket meant to help trappers do what they do.

Am I closer to what you want? Further away? Should I go ahead and make that a secondary trinket? Please, let me know

I am not sure I am reading this right. Are you saying you would be dropping the search and spot totally from the Spyglass trinket?
+3 int and dex skills is a far drop from +7 search / +7spot at level 4 and +11search/+11 spot at level 8.

This for me is the whole reason for its existence. Best is class spots and search and in a trinket slot. The intelligence part even added a little more for search. This is so hard to believe, I really think that this must be a typo and you left it out of the description.

Moving true seeing down to 12 would be nice and since the slavers trinket has it at 8, not unreasonable.

[edrein]

a driftwood Dagger.

Hold up now. A wooden dagger? I might have to buy you lunch bribe after all... Please tell me it's going to be a general purpose DPS dagger, not a casting implement, not an assassin focused dagger. One that anyone can use with Vistani, Vol, etc. Any build honestly.

[QuantumFX]

Since the item is a spyglass, something that's meant to improve vision, and the gist of player feedback is “Stop making trapping take so effing long”, why not just drop the Disable/Open Lock bonuses and have the item grant “Nothing is Hidden”?

[Natashaelle]

So, to be clear, you guys would prefer Wisdom Skills to Dex Skills? I know I'm all about listening to feedback here, but is Spot actually more important than Open Lock to you guys? I've never used this item, so please convince me one way or the other!

Spot is better on a trinket than Open Lock, which you can keep on an item (gloves etc, and hey! , why not even in a new heavily trapper-themed dagger ? , or so on) that you can equip when needed.

[xveganrox]

I am not sure I am reading this right. Are you saying you would be dropping the search and spot totally from the Spyglass trinket?
+3 int and dex skills is a far drop from +7 search / +7spot at level 4 and +11search/+11 spot at level 8.

This for me is the whole reason for its existence. Best is class spots and search and in a trinket slot. The intelligence part even added a little more for search. This is so hard to believe, I really think that this must be a typo and you left it out of the description.

Moving true seeing down to 12 would be nice and since the slavers trinket has it at 8, not unreasonable.

The skill bonuses are “exceptional.” They will stack with normal bonuses, which are competence. So if you’re wearing, say, Tharne’s Goggles (+15 spot, +15 search) with this trinket, you’ll get +20 spot and search — at level 16.

[LightBear]

One trinket should have spot (listen would be a nice bonus) and the other should have search+open lock+disable device.

That way you can have always on, and the other you swap in once you detected something.

[HuneyMunster]

So, to be clear, you guys would prefer Wisdom Skills to Dex Skills? I know I'm all about listening to feedback here, but is Spot actually more important than Open Lock to you guys? I've never used this item, so please convince me one way or the other!

I prefer Dex skill for Hide and Move Silent. Though spot is the hardest skill to get up high due to Wisdom usually the weaker stat on most trapper builds. Wisdom skills would also help with Nothing is Hidden that Drow, Elves Shadar Kai get as well as Watchful Eye feat.

[Robbenklopper]

Now that you devs are doing a loot revamp, did you took into consideration to add a "Set"? A buccaneer themed maybe? Maybe a 2 or 3 pieces Set with some bonus to round up missing effects. You could even go further and create also a 2 or 3 pieces filigree set. Just thinking, coz although you say it's a loot revamp, it's something new ...

[HuneyMunster]

This may have been suggested already in this thread (I can't sift through all 10 pages) but:

- Add Festive +2 DEX and Festive +2 CHA augments to Crystal Cove.
- Later you can add Festive +2 STR and Festive +2 CON augments to Midwinter Festival to complete the assortment.

(Festive +2 INT and Festive +2 WIS augments are available in Night Revels.)

Don't think this will happen until augments get a overhaul to work similar to LGS and Sentients.

Maybe the unannounced surprise might be Augment overhaul. Augments, Inventory/Bank and Character Sheet overhaul are 3 of the main things I would like to see.

[btolson]

They're never going to do festive +str, and I hope never +con either.

+cha and +dex might happen after augment revamp, DC's attached to those aren't out of control. At least not moreso than int/wis.

[Hafeal]

Ah. This is another item that runs up against our enchantments per item limit, but I misjudged entirely what people like about this item. We can't just add four more things to it, sadly. Given how easy it is to get skill items at appropriate levels, we're going to change the design of the item to make it desirable in a different way.

Level 4/8/12 Version:
Detect Secret Doors Clickie
Intelligence
Blurry
UMD

Level 16 Version:
True Seeing
Intelligence
Blurry
UMD

Level 20/24/28 Version:
True Seeing
Insightful Intelligence
Lesser Displacement
UMD

Lynnabel -

Thanks for your work. Without reading the prior 8 or so pages, I am sure it has been pointed out that these changes - in this way - makes what was supposed to be a "Trapper / Rogue" item - completely useless to a Trapper / Rogue. Part of what makes the Spyglass great, imo, is having search and spot on one item in Trinket. Very, very unique and frees up slots elsewhere.

I would ask you to consider the changes below, with your 4 part limitation, to salvage the value of the item:


Level 4/8/12 Version:
True Seeing
Intelligence
*Trapper SKills Bonus (+3/+6/+9 ? Search, Spot, Disable) - I have seen the use of these multi skills bonus, perhaps here would be a good choice, if possible?
UMD

*(remove Blurry - easy to get elsewhere or to cast - make it worthwhile to carry as a spell, scroll)

Level 16 Version:
True Seeing
Intelligence, insightful
*Trapper SKills Bonus (+12 ? Search, Spot, Disable)
UMD

*(again, remove Blurry)

Level 20/24/28 Version:
True Seeing
Insightful Intelligence
* Lesser Displacement
*Trapper SKills Bonus (+20 / +22 / +24 ? Search, Spot, Disable)

* UMD is not an issue at this point in the game I would guess for most builds, so drop that - or they can make it swappable with an earlier version to get that raise dead off.

Anyway, with the pending changes as they stand, it would take an item I have used for years and have me place it in the dustbin with the other CC loot I built over time.

My 2 coppers.

P.S. - You could take Disable and replace it with Open Locks to keep it in theme with the prior version. I may have been getting greedy putting in Disable - but - hey, I would take Open Locks and Disable along with Search and Spot ... even with a slightly lower bonus that would be very appealing.

[DYWYPI]

Possibly nearly all people that are "supposedly" playing Rogues; are NOT playing pure Rogues going from the majority of the replies in this thread... :-/

[...]

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional Int Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Exceptional Dex Skills +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

...

The new "2018 [12.5] Cracked lens Spyglass" has little interest to me with regards to "Trapping". For low heroics IMHO it looks too overpowered...

To be honest, it seems to closely resemble a power creep combat item. There is little; if any valid reason, to have those 'Exceptional Skills' at those lower levels (unless your plan is to make Disabling the harder Traps; as once mainly done by the Rogue class, redundant?).

[...] So, to be clear, you guys would prefer Wisdom Skills to Dex Skills? ...

No thank you, the lesser of two evils: I'd prefer DEX over WIS. Heal, Listen, and Spot checks. These are the skills that have Wisdom as their key ability. Balance, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock and Tumble checks. These are the skills that have Dexterity as their key ability. Furthermore most pure Rogues use either: INT or DEX to hit and damage. If you are failing Spot checks because of low: WIS, use Cannith Crafting or accept you cannot Spot everything. Move swift as the Wind and closely-formed as the Wood. Attack like the Fire and be still as the Mountain.

People won't likely be using the "Cove 2018, Cracked lens Spyglass" for trapping in heroics. It will be for combat advantage, i.e. damage boost bonuses. Of course some people are going to be happy Lynnabel, you've offered combat bonus potential rather than keeping directly to "Trapping" focused Skills, i.e. Spot and Search and Disable Device and Open Lock.

If you are insistent on having an item that adds "[+3] Exceptional" to two Abilities then: DEX and INT are the logical choices. If people need Exceptional WIS on a Rogue then they have likely created an abomination. Even I don't need Exceptional WIS, I start with WIS 8, and don't posses any higher than +3 Ability tomes. I'm Free-to-Play so don't have all the content or newer packs, but I never Fail any Traps on "none trapper focused" DEX based Assassins. Neither am I, a build enthusiast, nor do I possess great gear. :-)

Advice is like snow - the softer it falls, the longer it dwells upon, and the deeper it sinks into the mind.

[SpartanKiller13]

I quite like how the Spyglass is turning out. I think it's a great item for newer characters to get access to DSD/TS, and now it's also useful for vets to give Exceptional Skills. I don't play trappers so I probably won't be using it a lot, but it's still nice. I would love sources of Exceptional Skills for other stats (given the current source is GS, which I'm not good at). Maybe something to consider for like Night Revels? I'd love Exceptional Charisma Skills for my Tank

I have literally never met anyone who uses the Ratkiller. From reading this thread it used to be a thing thanks to Earthgrab, but personally I have never considered it as even slightly useful. Sure, keep the Animal Bane since it's iconic (although maybe a heavier scaling?); and the Earthgrab - since it's apparently useful. But I don't want Stunning and an occasional DC 17 Balance proc on it; I can slot Stunning somewhere else, give me offensive options. Or maybe a fun offensive clicky similar to the Ornamental Dagger (melees don't really get these?). Or an improved crit profile, so it's a viable option even with suboptimal weapon effects. If it was 18-20/x3, it would present an alternative to a Drow Maul of the Weaponmaster and if it was 20/x4 it would be pretty decent for level 20 use on Silvanus builds (where they have a wide enough range that +1 multiplier is pretty significant) and either way a viable competitor for anyone in LD.

Can the Brawling Gloves be updated? It's straight up a Monk item, and at that it's only useful for unarmed Monks. While I can appreciate a niche item, it seems like an extremely small niche. If the bonus were widened, or if one of the effects was swapped it could be worth losing an effect for a few cool ones. Like if Spike Studded added 1d4/1d6/1d8/2d6/2d8/2d10/4d6 to all weapons (at 4/8/12/16/20/24/28) to all weapons that'd be pretty cool without really adding a ton of powercreep. It's an average of 2.5/3.5/4.5/7/9/11/14 damage, and you'd be hard pressed to say that's more DPS than like Molten Silver Gauntlets. 1d4 falls off pretty quickly, but at least this way you'd consider it a bit more. I'd prefer larger procs, but for power creep purposes etc I can see an argument against that.

[Noir]

The new "2018 [12.5] Broken lens Spyglass" has little interest to me with regards to "Trapping". For low heroics IMHO it looks too overpowered...

To be honest, it seems to closely resemble a power creep combat item. There is little; if any valid reason, to have those 'Exceptional Skills' at those lower levels (unless your plan is to make Disabling the harder Traps; as once mainly done by the Rogue class, redundant?).

I agree with this. The item is to "broad brush" now. The item never helped disable and unlock in the past. Rather then all int and all wisdom skills make the number reflect exceptional search and spot only.
That still makes it superior to the current versions of the spyglass as a swap to or even full time wear item and doesn't completely invalidate pure rogues for hard to disable traps. In essence its the same for spotting and finding. It just wouldn't help disable device and unlock. (which it didn't do in the past and makes the item OP. )
What I think the new version should be (your mileage may vary.)

Treasure Hunter's Spyglass version 12 and a half: Trinket Slot
Minimum Level:4/8/12/16/20/24/28

• Detect Secret Doors Clicky/Detect Secret Doors Clicky/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing/True Seeing
• Exceptional search Skill +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Exceptional spot Skill +3/+3/+4/+5/+5/+6/+9
• Intelligence +3/+5/+6/+8/Insightful +4/Insightful +5/Insightful +8
• Green Augment Slot

[Annex]

For those who have not been following along, most of us have moved on from updating the Spyglass. We are now pretty deep into planning a completely new Trinket for trapping. The old Spyglass remains available for anyone who wants that. Just sayin.

[DYWYPI]

Yes, I suspect most people are aware the current Crystal Cove items will still be available via an barricaded NPC, at least for the foreseeable future and likely for a few years. Mostly for anyone who hasn't upgraded their current items, or see good value in the current Cove items, etc.

I'm on the correct page; Lynnabel was proposing (one or more) alternatives for the "Spyglass" aptly and cunningly codenamed: Spyglass.

How it's turning out [12.5] thus far rather than it being a Trinket, it possibly would be better as a pair of Bracers. Knowledge of the enemy's dispositions can only be obtained from other men.

I think at one stage it [12.5] was a 'Needleless Compass' or a 'Mermaids Looking Glass'? Which would explain why Blurry and True Seeing could also appear.

The 'Driftwood Quarterstaff' does sound interesting. As does the 'Whittled Sailing Dagger/Shank'.

I can see how Lynnabel is between: Scylla and Charybdis, and can follow her idea of trying to squeeze in more skill boosts. Even if I don't fully agree with its current direction. :-)