Are Clonks playable anymore?

[Bacab]

Heyas, I always like to post here before starting a new life because the "Classes" section seems to not have many trolls in it and I get great advice in here.

My question is, "Are Clonks playable anymore?"

In DDO, I generally play 3-4 builds over and over again.

Fleshy Cleric and Bard.

Warforged Arcane, like Wizard, Sorcerer and Artificer.

I have of course played other builds to Completionist, but I was never good at playing a melee, but I still enjoy it to a point.

The closest that I have gotten to playing a melee is Swashbuckler Bard and a Clonk and or Battle Cleric.

I like playing melee ok, i just know when I am 100% melee I am generally not worth a party spot.

But when I am a support/melee, I can generally help a group out a lot.

In the past when I played my Clonk lives, I generally went 18Cleric/2Monk or 17Cleric/3Monk for fists of light.

I am wondering with a lack of PRR and with Reaper being a thing, maybe Clonks would be bad?

Since I have been back, I finished up a Caster Cleric life and it was pretty good and the healing on Cleric is easy to do.

Anyway, my thinking is that I could run around and do my Soundburst for helpless and Stunning Fist and the group would go well?

Bellow, I am going to post a very rough draft of my idea of build.

[slarden]

There has definitely been an uptick of clonks, but I think that is mostly due to an exploit allowing people to have all 4 stance benefits at the same time.

[Enoach]

The Clonk is still playable.

It benefited a lot from the addition of Domains especially the melee focused ones.

Additionally, I think the gear from the Slave Lord, Ravenloft and Age of Rage quest series has opened up gear for this type of build

[Bacab]

Race: Human
Stats: I have lotsa tomes, some are +5, some are +6, I can't really remember whats what
EDIT: Have updated the actual stats I have used...

STR: 14
DEX: 14
CON: 15
INT: 10
WIS: 16 (I am spread thing on stat points, I don't think its worth 6 builds points for 2 more WIS...and level ups into this)
CHR: 12? (Divine Might seems nice, but I am unsure about my stats and action points)

Skills:
Standard Cleric Skills:
Concentration, Heal, Spellcraft, UMD (I have UMD tomes and 3 Arty lives, So I can get this workable), Balance with monk levels and maybe some Jump?

Levels:
1 Monk (I really want to use the extra skill points here, but its hard on my feats, might have to go with Cleric here)
2-8 Cleric (I really like level 4 Cleric spells)
9 Monk
10-13 Cleric (I want Heal, Blade barrier, Banishment and Access to Harm in case I am running with a Palemaster)
14 Monk (Fists of Light and the Second Core of Shintao gives me 10 Positive Spell power)
15-20 Cleric

Feats: Here is where I struggle (if I took Cleric at level 1, I can get into my Metamagic feats easier, but lose on like 8 skill points)

1. Dodge or Toughness?
1. (Human bonus) Stunning Fist (I have 3 Fighter Past Lives, hoping its worth it here)
1. (Monk Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
3. Completionist
6. Maximize
9. Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9. (Monk Bonus) Power Attack or Precision (Not Sure what is better, I wonder about my Attack Bonus...)
12. Empower Heal (Helps on Radiant Servant T5)
15. Improved Critical
18. Quicken
21. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Epic Feats: I am unsure

Here is a mock up with Cleric at level 1

1. Maximize
1. (Human Bonus) Empower Healing
2. (Monk Bonus) Stunning Fist
3. Completionist
6. Adept of Forms
9. (Monk Bonus) TWF
9. ITWF
12. Improved Crit
15. Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. Quicken
21. Heighten

If I took Cleric at level 1, I could skip taking Dodge and move metamagics up and get GTWF earlier. This would also open up an Epic Feat at level 21 rather than G***. If there is a better feat lay out, feel free to share!

Domain: These are a new mechanic to me. When I came back, I didn't bother to use my free LR (I was already level 15, holding 16)
These are the Domains I am most interested in...
Animal for the bonus 10 HP per cleric level
Good Domain for the Deific Vengence and Blade Barrier SLAs
Luck Domain for the Dispacement SLA and the +2 DCs
War Domain for the Tactical DCs and the Holy Sword Spell (can I cast that on handwraps?)

Action Points:
When I play Cleric I always get to T5 in Radiant Servant for the Aura and generally dip into Either Divine Disciple and War Priest.

This time, I want

Radiant Servant
T5 Radiant Servant so I will spend enough AP in this one to get there at Character level 12...so 32 total AP in this.

Shintao Monk Probably 11 AP spent here if I skip Jade and Dismissing Strike, maybe 13 AP for some WIS Upgrades
Shintao Monk has some nice enhancements that are low hanging fruit. The 2 first Cores and Reed in Wind for some Dodge and Deft Strikes.
I like Iron Skin too (thinking this is good for my lack of armor PRR)
Jade and Dismissing Strike? These might be bad due to my very low Monk level?

Human: 2 Total
1 in first Core (I have 1 Racial AP btw)
2 in human Healing Amp (low hanging fruit)

War Priest I plan on spending the rest of my AP here, maybe if nothing is worth spending, I can dip more into Human or Divine Disciple
I will try to get the first 4 Cores in this for the AC and stuff
T1: Divine Might (Didn't this use to be 2 AP per upgrade and the Cleric Version used Turn Undead? At just 1 Point I think its worth slotting CHR for the Turn Undeads anyway). Also Minimum on Toughness to reach T2
T2: Wall of Steel (think more PRR helps me in Robes), Inflames and Inflames Saving Throws if I can
T3: Inflame Energy Absorption, and WIS upgrade
T4: Ameliorating Strike (This is a really good ability), maybe WIS Upgrade

[Enoach]

Those are some nice domains

Other Domains you might consider

Law - As a Monk you are lawful. the Orders Wrath and Greater Command SLAs are excellent tools to make the mobs stand there while you hit them. One of the backbones of the Clonk is access to Stunning Fist for CC so these additional cheap AoE CC can help you and your party take less damage. Most don't realize this but Orders Wrath does work on Undead

Destruction - While you won't be raging, the use of Turns will grant you and your party Melee Power and the additional double strike and Improved Destruction can help you and your party hit more often

Protection - While this does not add to offensive, it has good tools for making you a bit more resilient through extra PRR and AC (which is harder to get when you are not wearing armor) to access to Radiant Forcefield which can allow you to wade in and take less damage for a short period of time. You can also use your turns to give a short increase to your Parties PRR/MRR

I notice you like to use the Radiant Aura, this is good as the bonus effects of the Domains will proc each time you activate the Aura. So keep that in mind when you pick the Domain because the first 20 seconds of your activation of Aura will also come with a benefit of your Domain.

[Bacab]

Those are some nice domains

Other Domains you might consider

Law - As a Monk you are lawful. the Orders Wrath and Greater Command SLAs are excellent tools to make the mobs stand there while you hit them. One of the backbones of the Clonk is access to Stunning Fist for CC so these additional cheap AoE CC can help you and your party take less damage. Most don't realize this but Orders Wrath does work on Undead

Destruction - While you won't be raging, the use of Turns will grant you and your party Melee Power and the additional double strike and Improved Destruction can help you and your party hit more often

Protection - While this does not add to offensive, it has good tools for making you a bit more resilient through extra PRR and AC (which is harder to get when you are not wearing armor) to access to Radiant Forcefield which can allow you to wade in and take less damage for a short period of time. You can also use your turns to give a short increase to your Parties PRR/MRR

I notice you like to use the Radiant Aura, this is good as the bonus effects of the Domains will proc each time you activate the Aura. So keep that in mind when you pick the Domain because the first 20 seconds of your activation of Aura will also come with a benefit of your Domain.

Oh man, more decisions!

The Protection one looks really good to my play style too.

How hard is it to change a Domain? Can Fred do it? Or is it a full on LR Heart?

[Bacab]

Oh yeah, I think maybe Adept of Forms would be really nice to have. I thought you had to have 6 Monk levels to get that, but I guess not.

I will rework the build to add that in.

[Enoach]

Oh man, more decisions!

The Protection one looks really good to my play style too.

How hard is it to change a Domain? Can Fred do it? Or is it a full on LR Heart?

Well just like Warlock each Domain feature is granted as a Feat at 2, 5, 9 and 14.

So before you have 5 Cleric Levels it would be a simple talk with Fred to exchange the Level 2 Feat. After that it would need a Lesser Reincarnation to start over.

---
Edit Adept of Forms is Auto granted at 6 Monk Levels and Master of Forms is Auto granted at 12 Monk Levels. Both only require a single Monk level but also your Character Level needs to be 6 and 12 respectively.

[Bacab]

Well just like Warlock each Domain feature is granted as a Feat at 2, 5, 9 and 14.

So before you have 5 Cleric Levels it would be a simple talk with Fred to exchange the Level 2 Feat. After that it would need a Lesser Reincarnation to start over.

---
Edit Adept of Forms is Auto granted at 6 Monk Levels and Master of Forms is Auto granted at 12 Monk Levels. Both only require a single Monk level but also your Character Level needs to be 6 and 12 respectively.

Hmm...

Do you think Master of Forms and Grandmaster of Forms are worth taking?

I am also guessing there are pre-reqs of having the Small, Medium, Large, Extra large versions. AKA I can't just keep talking to Fred at level 12 and swap out the level 6 version for the level 12, and then talk to him again to swap out the level 18 for the level 12.

[Hjarki]

My question is, "Are Clonks playable anymore?"

Playable? Yes. Ideal? Probably not.

The primary impetus for the original notion of a 'Clonk' was the dramatically improved defenses. With a minor splash in Monk, you lost virtually nothing from the standpoint of offensive casting. On the other hand, you gained Evasion, saves and a ton of AC.

This is no longer true. With some rare exceptions, the modern Clonk is defensively much weaker than the pure Cleric. With only 2-3 levels of Monk, you can't get more than a small fraction of a pure Monk's dodge. Monk AC isn't really all that competitive - and certainly not with a minor a dip. The significantly lower PRR and MRR cap also limits your durability a great deal. Evasion is nice, but the cost is just too high when you don't have all the other features of Monks that can counterbalance the loss of wearing real armor.

Nor are those levels of Monk particularly effective from a casting standpoint. The +4 Wisdom you get from taking 3 form feats is a mere +2 DC - which is probably what you lost by not taking the final Domain DC boost and the capstone. The 25% spell point reduction is nice - but it requires you melee to build up ki and your melee won't be particularly good on a Wisdom-based build. If you were really worried about spell point costs, taking those levels in FvS for Just Reward would generally be better and be accompanied by fairly strong spell damage bonuses.

If you just want to survive the fight, I'd argue 3 levels of Paladin are a better choice. You can get a load of extra hit points, PRR and MRR from Stalwart Defender and some benefits from Vanguard as well (2 sec Deflect Arrows, for example).

If you're thinking a more melee-centric Clonk, you also have to consider how much better your approach would be as a FvS (who can convert Wisdom or Charisma into a hit/damage stat) or even a Bard (where 3 levels gets you both better offense and better defense).

So, yes, you can do it. But a 17/3 Cleric/Monk build probably isn't any better than a 17/3 Cleric/anything build - and if you actually try to make use of centered Monk features, you'll probably suffer a defensive hit.