Pure ranger or multi classing

[Elindel22]

Hi.

I would like to take 1 level rogue (to be able to
disarm traps and open locks on my own) and 1 level
fighter, to be able to add Quicken (would take point
blank shot or dodge with fighter feat, thus
liberating my ranger feats to add quicken).

I do not want to get rid of Shot on the Run, I am
always moving and -4 to hit is a huge penalty.

That’s why I need the fighter level.

And the rogue level, I always quest alone (and never raid) with a few
hirelings when needed, and the rogue hireling will not
be able to disarm traps at highest levels, because he is capped
at 24.

But I have to give up ranger cappped enhancement
of 20% doubleshot to get those two multiclass
levels (cant take both the deepwood level 20 enhancement
and the AA level 20 enhancement and the AA enhancement seems better).

And I also give up a favored enemy. But that I can live with.

So the question is, since I solo and seem to need the rogue level and need quicken, how much am I gimping
myself by giving up 20% doubleshot to get them ?

Thanks

[Tricosene]

There's always pros and cons.

I ran a ranger with two levels of rogue some time ago. It was fun to be able to trap and to unlock everything, but now I just try to time the traps and avoid damage. Now I don't get all the locked doors and locked chests. I was disappointed at first, but then I got over it. Although it's not a bad idea to have trapping skills for your first time going up to level 30, just to help while you are still learning the ins and outs of the game.

For me, I'm about to TR into a ranger, and I'm not multiclassing. I don't want to give up the deepwoods stalker capstone enhancement, and I don't see enough value in rogue levels.

I haven't had a need for shot on the run with any of my ranged builds. Maybe it might be needed for high level reaper, but I don't run that. If I take it, it'll be for the ranged power, although I don't like having to take dodge and mobility. Between leather armor's dodge cap, bracers of the wind, and a couple of past lives, I tend to be dodge capped.

I am also not planning on taking quicken. In heroic elite and epic hard quests, I've never had a need for it with healing. If you're planning on running epic elite, I understand it's necessary, but since you're new to the game, I wouldn't recommend epic elite. If I have a free feat, I'd rather take empower healing to get more healing out of cocoon.

I hope this helps. Your first time going to level 30 really is a learning phase. Don't stress so much about your build, run everything on epic normal, and have fun. You'll do fine.

[Elindel22]

There's always pros and cons.

I ran a ranger with two levels of rogue some time ago. It was fun to be able to trap and to unlock everything, but now I just try to time the traps and avoid damage. Now I don't get all the locked doors and locked chests. I was disappointed at first, but then I got over it. Although it's not a bad idea to have trapping skills for your first time going up to level 30, just to help while you are still learning the ins and outs of the game.

For me, I'm about to TR into a ranger, and I'm not multiclassing. I don't want to give up the deepwoods stalker capstone enhancement, and I don't see enough value in rogue levels.

I haven't had a need for shot on the run with any of my ranged builds. Maybe it might be needed for high level reaper, but I don't run that. If I take it, it'll be for the ranged power, although I don't like having to take dodge and mobility. Between leather armor's dodge cap, bracers of the wind, and a couple of past lives, I tend to be dodge capped.

I am also not planning on taking quicken. In heroic elite and epic hard quests, I've never had a need for it with healing. If you're planning on running epic elite, I understand it's necessary, but since you're new to the game, I wouldn't recommend epic elite. If I have a free feat, I'd rather take empower healing to get more healing out of cocoon.

I hope this helps. Your first time going to level 30 really is a learning phase. Don't stress so much about your build, run everything on epic normal, and have fun. You'll do fine.

Thanks for feedback.

But why would you choose the DWS cap enhancement over the arcane archer cap enhancement ? I never really have trouble with the sneak attack range or point blank shot range.

The ranged power is nice, but is it worth giving up doubleshot 20% from the arcane archer enhancement ?

Thanks

[Tricosene]

Thanks for feedback.

But why would you choose the DWS cap enhancement over the arcane archer cap enhancement ? I never really have trouble with the sneak attack range or point blank shot range.

The ranged power is nice, but is it worth giving up doubleshot 20% from the arcane archer enhancement ?

Thanks

They are both good options. In addition to ranged power, DWS also gives additional sneak attack damage.

I'm going to be using a deception item and bluff to increase frequency of sneak attacks, so it seems like a good option to me. And sneak attack damage increases with ranged power.

If you look at past ranger builds here, some people prefer the DWS capstone and others prefer the AA one. Likely one is "best." You'll do fine with either one.

[unbongwah]

I do not want to get rid of Shot on the Run, I am
always moving and -4 to hit is a huge penalty.

No, it isn't. It sounds like it is, especially if you're coming from PnP D&D, but the devs changed how the to-hit formula worked several years ago and small to-hit bonus/penalties don't matter nearly as much as they used to.

Shot on the Run (and Spring Attack) are pretty much never worth the 3-feat cost, particularly if you're not investing in the Dodge / Mobility enhancements from Tempest (or Kensei), IMO. So I prefer a barbarian splash to fighter on a rgr 18 / rog 1 for the +10% run speed bonus. There's no such thing as too much runspeed.

And the rogue level, I always quest alone (and never raid) with a few
hirelings when needed, and the rogue hireling will not
be able to disarm traps at highest levels, because he is capped
at 24.

With experience, you can get past traps without trapping skills, particularly on a DEX-based ranger thanks to Evasion. OTOH, if you're a soloer, it's hard to say no to the bonus XP from disarming traps, which is the real incentive for a rogue splash, IMO.

So: splash for bonus XP while leveling; or stay pure for higher DPS in epic levels? Ultimately only you can decide which is more important to you.

[Tricosene]

A number of your questions are answered in threads such as unbongwah's elven ranger (see his signature block) and Strimtom's acid arrow, where people give their reasoning for choosing certain feats and enhancements over others.

For a new person to the game, just following one of their builds can be very rewarding. You mention soloing a lot, and these builds do well with the solo style.

The one question that isn't answered is "which is best?" because in some cases, there isn't just one right answer. That's why many of us keep on playing. Is DWS or AA tier 5 best? Try one. Then try the other. Then you realize it might be fun to make a different build with different goals, and you try something else. Then a cool, rare piece of gear drops, and you decide to make a build around that. And five years later, you're still here, trying out something new.

[Enoach]

Things to consider when contemplating multi-class

1. User one of the planner tools available - see DDO Wiki
The reason for this is so that you can plan the order of leveling. This helps you avoid possible issues related to Pre-Requisites such as Having enough BaB, helps avoid planning on taking a feat that one of your classes auto-grants - IE Rangers get TWF line and Bow Feats

In the case of Ranger and Rogue keep in mind that Evasion is granted with 9 Levels of Ranger and 2 Levels of Rogue - this type of split will not get you a better version - however, it may be acceptable in your build to essentially "throw away" a bonus feat. But it should give you pause to determine if a single Rogue Level may be enough to meet your goals

Another reason is planning your skill progression. Ranger and Rogue both are in the High Skill side, but it will help you determine the right amount of Int bonus you need to achieve the skill level you are working towards

2. What feature does each class bring to your build that makes it attractive for your play enjoyment. Are you trading something for something you find more desirable.

3. Synergy of the classes
Some classes work well together, some are ok and some bring limitations that might be to restrictive - such as a Sorcerer/Barbarian as you cannot cast while Raged, which might be ok for a specific style of play but could be very limiting for others.

4. Multi-Class with purpose
While I enjoy my static group of G.I.M.P. playing where we randomly have 3 classes and randomly level them from 4 to 20 it is not necessarily a good way to go if you want to have a steady path to how your character works level to level.

[C-Dog]

In the case of Ranger and Rogue keep in mind that Evasion is granted with 9 Levels of Ranger and 2 Levels of Rogue - this type of split will not get you a better version - however, it may be acceptable in your build to essentially "throw away" a bonus feat. But it should give you pause to determine if a single Rogue Level may be enough to meet your goals...

+1

Rogue 1 is all you need, esp w/ a primary class that gives 8 Skill Points /level.

The only question, then, is what to do w/ that odd level, for an Epic* result of Ranger 18/Rogue 1/ X 1? The usual choices are either Fighter 1, for 1 more Feat, or Barbarian 1, for +10% run speed. I find the speed FAR more useful than yet another feat (esp on Ranger, which has so many for free), so that's my recommendation.

(You can also go Wiz for a boost to spell points, a few lowbie buff spells (+10 Jump, Protection from Evil, & (Night)Shield), and the Invisibility SLA. Ymmv.)

(* If you're only going to 20 and then immediately TR'ing, you could plan on a 18-Level build. Just sayin.)

Rogue 1 is (obviously!) taken at level 1, but timing of the second splash varies depending on which you've chosen and whether you're getting most advantage out of Ranged or 2-Weapon Feats from Ranger, but ~usually~ around Level 8-11, depending.

[QuantumFX]

You know, if you’re going for an “Archer” build, and need “Trap Skills”, you could also go with level(s) of Artificer.

Ignore the repeater aspect for a second.
- It opens up Spellcraft as a class skill for extra spellpower to your imbues.
- It grants the Magical Training feat for easier access to Soul Magic.
- You get a switchpuller/paperweight.
- Electric Arrows + Wand and Scroll Mastery via Arcanotech for self heals. (Including those cure wands you can use thanks to your Ranger levels.)
- Mastermaker has some nice low hanging fruit for enhancements. (More HP via core 1 and toughness, healing amp)

[Kaboom2112]

Bow builds suck right now, shurikens are a gazillion times better. Don't fight the meta.

[C-Dog]

shurikens are a gazillion times better...

... at end-Heroic and Epic. Leveling a shuri build from 1 to late-teens (when things finally kick in) can be a real slog (and you'll often find yourself use bows during that time anyway!).

[Tilomere]

By splashing barb and rogue instead of FvS for soundburst and divine will and Monk for 10k Stars and No Mercy, which is also the CC for base helpless, combat brute, and Sense Weakness, you are probably giving up two thirds of your dps.

[Whitering]

By splashing barb and rogue instead of FvS for soundburst and divine will and Monk for 10k Stars and No Mercy, which is also the CC for base helpless, combat brute, and Sense Weakness, you are probably giving up two thirds of your dps.

That's a bit more than a splash there Tilo, got a build for us?

[unbongwah]

FvS for soundburst and divine will

Divine Will doesn't work with ranged / thrown weapons. Unless it's bugged, but what're the odds of that?

[Tilomere]

Divine Will doesn't work with ranged / thrown weapons. Unless it's bugged, but what're the odds of that?

Melee: melee \MAY-lay\ noun. : a confused struggle; especially : a hand-to-hand fight among several people.

It would be bugged if it didn't work with ranged/thrown, but what're the odds of that?

[barecm]

If you are running on heroic for past lives, definitely add rogue levels. If you are going to 30 and plan to stay for a while, I would suggest pure. Either AA or DW capstones offer huge bonuses that I feel are too good to give up (RP or DS).

Shot on the run is a waste. -4 to hit is insignificant when you get upwards into epics and your +to hit is 100 or higher. That is 3 feats for +4 to hit while moving! You can get +2 ranged power from weapon focused ranged and/or weapon focus thrown (or 4 total if you take both). For 3 feats you are gaining +4 to hit and +3 RP? Complete waste.

Look at every ranged ranger build and you will find they are all different in some respects.... however, they all do not include shot on the run.