Dilletante Tweaks

[PsychoBlonde]

Some of the half-elf dilettantes have some interesting possibilities, but I think they could do with an update that might make the race a bit more tempting for various builds, so here are some suggestions:

Artificer: crossbow and repeating crossbow proficiency. Improved Dilettante tier 4 lets you wield a runearm, although of course you only count as a level 4 arti for runearm damage.
Barbarian: Instead of a trivial amount of damage reduction, you get proficiency with all two-handed martial weapons and 5% bonus run speed. Improved dilettantes add 5% glancing blow damage and 3% ability proc, small amount of melee power.
Bard: Proficient with all light weapons. All abilities that create a stunning effect last 2 seconds longer. Improved dilettante adds +1 crit range with any light weapon.
Cleric: Multi-selector. Choose a domain ability. Tier 4 improved adds another ability of that same domain.
Druid: Character must have a Neutral alignment. You can transform into a basic wolf or bear with the core wild shape abilities only. Druid Oath limitations apply. Improved dilettante allows water and fire elemental forms.
Favored Soul: Deity multi-selector. You are proficient in that deity's favored weapon. You get +2 HP and +5 sp per level. Improved dilettante tier 4 lets you select wis or cha to hit/damage with your deity weapon.
Fighter: Proficient with all martial weapons and shields. Improved dilettantes let you add +1 tactics DC's and +5 PRR
Monk: Character must have a Lawful alignment. You can add 1 point per character level of Wisdom to your AC when centered. Proficient with Kama, Shuriken, Handwraps and can attack with Handwraps as a monk. Improved Dilettantes: Multi-selector lets you take the modal half of monk Form feats. Centered limitations apply. Does NOT give you a Ki bar.
Paladin: You may add 1 point per 3 character levels of your Charisma to your saving throws. Improved levels add light damage (scales with melee power) to your attacks. Bonus heal amp.
Ranger: Select TWF or Ranged. TWF gives you 15% base offhand proc, with each Improved Dilettante giving you an additional 15% offhand proc for a total of 60%. Ranged: you can add 1 per level of your strength to bow damage. Improved ranks grant 10% ranged alacrity or 10% doubleshot. The effect does not apply if you have the Two Weapon Fighting feat (whether taken or granted from class), or if you have Rapid Shot (taken or granted from class).
Rogue: +1d6/5 levels sneak attack damage. Overwritten by rogue sneak attack, but works with other sources of sneak attack. Improved Dilettantes grant fort bypass.
Sorcerer: Choose an element. 30 spellpower and +10% critical damage with spells of that element. Improved Dilettantes add more crit damage.
Warlock: Choose a damage type (fire/acid/sonic). Gives you a Pact feat that adds 2d4/4d4/6d4/8d4 damage of that type to attacks and spells. Scales with spellpower.
Wizard: +1/2/3/4 spell penetration. Choose a school. +! to DC's and caster level of spells of that school. Additional +1's from improved dilettante feats.

So, they'd potentially be quite valuable and maybe even allow for some builds that wouldn't otherwise work well. But it'd also be kinda expensive. But it would also mean that half-elf might actually be "best race" for some specific or unusual builds.

They're just suggestions, surely most or all could use tweaks.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

The fighter one sucks donkey **** compared to the rest.

Scaling on hit damage seems mad strong for a couple AP, especially since RAP.

Ranger suggestion basically replaces feats. What would be the interaction between those enhancements and the inherent 20% proc rate on TWF without any feats? With T1 monk enhancements, you are pretty much at 100% offhand proc with no feats. Seems op.

[PsychoBlonde]

Scaling on hit damage seems mad strong for a couple AP, especially since RAP.

It's not "a few", it's more like 20 AP worth of investment.

Ranger suggestion basically replaces feats. What would be the interaction between those enhancements and the inherent 20% proc rate on TWF without any feats? With T1 monk enhancements, you are pretty much at 100% offhand proc with no feats. Seems op.

Most of the suggestions basically replace feats, although I did forget about the base 20% offhand proc so it'd have to be reduced. All the current dilettantes do nothing whatsoever if you have actual levels in the class or the actual feats. So, basically you can spend a not insignificant number of AP to get a substantially crappier version of what you'd normally splash in that class for.

Currently the dilettantes are not good enough to get people to play half elf over the actually good races (plus a lot of people don't like how they look). The dillies need to be good enough to open up new play options, basically a "splash without the splash".

[the_one_dwarfforged]

It's not "a few", it's more like 20 AP worth of investment.

If you have 10 (12 is max now? IDK) RAP, you're really only spending 10 AP that you could otherwise allocate to enhancements in any tree; I think 12% of your total AP for maxing out a tree that gives you potentially very powerful complementary effects is strong, not crappy.

Most of the suggestions basically replace feats, although I did forget about the base 20% offhand proc so it'd have to be reduced. All the current dilettantes do nothing whatsoever if you have actual levels in the class or the actual feats. So, basically you can spend a not insignificant number of AP to get a substantially crappier version of what you'd normally splash in that class for.

Currently the dilettantes are not good enough to get people to play half elf over the actually good races (plus a lot of people don't like how they look). The dillies need to be good enough to open up new play options, basically a "splash without the splash".

I think saying that most of the suggestions "basically replace feats" is too general. The fighter dilettante grants a tactics DC bonus which can be obtained from fighter specific feats that can be taken, or not, as well as fighter enhancements, and PRR which IIRC can not be obtained passively from fighter enhancements, only a stance, and fighter specific feats which can be taken, or not, but also from an epic feat which grants a flat amount of PRR. Wizards can gain flat bonuses to spell DCs and spell pen from both class enhancements and general caster feats. The bard dilettante grants bonus stun duration, I don't currently recall any effect in the game that grants such an effect, bard based or otherwise; it also grants +1 crit range to light weapons which clearly is a substitute for an enhancement and not a feat, and what would be the bonus type of this crit bonus? The paladin dilettante saves bonus replaces a feat, yes, but it is an autogranted class feat which I think may as well not be considered a "feat" since its not something you can choose to acquire or not once you have the appropriate class levels, it's just a class feature and the same goes for the runearm and druid forms; the other benefits are obviously substitutes for enhancements and not feats. Which effects would be considered non-stacking and why? Seems like a logical, consistent, balanced method would be difficult to develop based on the current suggested improvements.

If, like we have currently, the dilettante bonuses would be cancelled out by the actual class bonuses (assuming a consistent method of determining exactly what would cancel out what), why would anyone spend even free RAP on effects that grant you 1/4 or 1/16 of the effectiveness of an otherwise normal and acceptable investment when that reduced effectiveness likely doesn't bring anything real to the table? For example, if the fighter dilettante was mutually exclusive with the fighter tactical feats since, as you say, your suggestion "mostly replace feats"? You obviously wouldn't be taking those dilly enhancements on a fighter, so on what build do you take them? If you have 0 RAP and it would take you, as you say, 20 AP to get say +5 tac DCs, on what build is that going to entice a player to choose Helf over Horc or WF or elf? Either the build is so far away from useful DCs that 5 point is irrelevant, or the build is so close to useful DCs that 5 points is irrelevant.

OTOH, some of the buffs you have suggested seem mad OP. +6d6 sneak attack before MP scaling and additional fortification bypass on a pure fighter? Very strong. +10 to saves (assuming you meant charisma mod, not score, BTW) and scaling on hit light damage and additional hamp on a pure fighter? Very strong. +8d4 elemental damage on hit the scales, probably not as good as the other two for a pure fighter but very strong. As far as the TWF ranger dilly goes, if the bonus was capped at 60% I think a monk in wind stance would still be able to hit 80% offhand proc rate which means they could trade 10-20% offhand and maybe as few as 10 AP to gain 3 feats. Seems a bit much.