Arcane Trickster etc

[Igognito]

Hi all,

I recently started playing DDO, and I have to say it is a nice experience until now.
I originally wanted to make an: Elf, Rogue/4, Wizard/6, Arcane Trickster 10.

But as I started playing I realized that there is no such thing as Prestige classes. Instead there is the Action Points and the Enchantment Trees where u spend your points.

Really cool feature by the way!

So my suggestion is to introduce extra enchantment trees. I personally have in mind Arcane Trickster, but I'm sure that more can appear slowly.

Suggestions for some options for the arcane trickster:

Ranged Legerdemain: You can use: Disable Device, Open Locks from 30ft. away. Increase DC by 5.
Impromptu Sneak Attack: Activate ability; Costs 15 Spell Points; Your attacks are Sneak Attacks.
Tricky Spells(1-3): Passive ability; Your damaging spells can deliver sneak damage. The 1-3 is for the level of spells (1-3;4-6;7-9)
Thief Skills(1-3 x4): Four different groups of 2-3 skills each
Stealthy (Hide, Move Silently)
Alert (Spot, Listen, Search)
Device Master (Disable Device, Open Locks)
Acrobat (Tumble, Jump, Balance)
Each time you choose you gain a skill bonus.
Arcane Sneak Attack(1-3): You increase your sneak attack damage by 1d6 (up to 3 times)
Fighting Wizard(1-3): (+1 BAB up to +3)
Also some ability score improvements (Dexterity, Intelligence)

I'm certain that there are other Prestige classes that can provide further ideas for extra trees. I personally felt that this one is missing. I also have a hunch that a Mystic Theurge might be missing too.

Cheers

ps: From time to time I will come and upgrade this, as I figure out more how the Enchantment tree works.

[Igognito]

Time to make it more concrete :-)

Many of the abilities already exist on other Enhancement Trees so I just copied/pasted a bit. But several I suggest are completely new. I also have not thought the Tier 4, 5 powers much.

Underlined are the exclusive to Arcane Trickster powers.

Core Abilities:
Ranged Legerdemain
Active:
1) Open Doors/Use Valves/Use Switches from 15 (ranged sneak distance) meters away as if you have a strength score = intelligence.
2) You can use Open Locks, Disable Device from 15 meters away with a -5 penalty.
Passive:
-- Every point spend in the Arcane Trickster tree grants you +1 to Force Spell Power.
-- +1% doubleshot
Requires: Rogue Level 1 / Wizard Level 1
Impromptu Sneak Attack
Toggle:
Up to once every 6 seconds while a Impromptu Sneak Attack toggle is active, an attack you make that hits an enemy will cost you five (5) spell points.
That attack is a Sneak Attacks and delivers Sneak Attack damage. This only activates on creatures vulnerable to sneak attack damage.
Passive:
-- +1 Sneak Attack Die
-- -5% Arcane Spell Failure from equipped Light Armor
-- +10 Force Spell Power
Requires: Rogue Level 2 / Wizard Level 1
Targeting Sights
Passive:
You can now use your Intelligence modifier for damage with all crossbows and thrown weapons. You also gain proficiency with light repeating crossbows.
Requires: Total Level 6, Point Blank Shot
Improved Detection
Passive:
You can detect traps and search from 50% further away. You gain proficiency with heavy repeating crossbows. You gain +1 to-hit and damage, and 1 extra Sneak Attack die with bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons.
Requires: Total Level 12, Point Blank Shot
Advanced Sneak Attack
Passive:
-- +1 Sneak Attack Die
-- +10 Force Spell Power
-- You gain a +1 Competence Bonus to Critical Threat Range with your equipped weapons. (This does not apply to Shields or Unarmed)
-- Your attacks now bypass 10% fortification
Requires: Total Level 12
Telekinesis
Active:
Like the spell Telekinesis (http://ddowiki.com/page/Telekinesis) affected obviously from force spell power also should leave opponents prone.
Cost: 15 Spell Points
Passive:
-- +2 Dexterity & Intelligence
-- +1 to hit with all crossbows
-- +1 damage with all repeating crossbows
-- +2 damage with non-repeating crossbows
-- +2 Sneak Attack dice and +2 to hit when performing Sneak Attacks
-- +10 Force Spell Power
Requires: Total Level 20

Tier One:
Stealthy: +1/+2/+3 Hide and Move silently. Rank 3: You gain +1 additional Sneak Attack Die.
Mechanics: +1/+2/+3 Disable Device, Open Lock, and Repair. +1/+2/+3 to Saving Throws you make against traps.
Awareness: +1/+2/+3 Listen, Search, and Spot
Subtle Spellcasting: Your damaging spells generate 10%/20%/30% less hate than they normally would, making enemies less likely to attack you.
Sneaky Spells (3 ranks): Passive ability; Your damaging spells can deliver sneak damage. The 3 ranks are for the level of spells (1-3;4-6;7-9).

Tier Two:
Wand and Scroll Mastery: +25%/+50%/+75% effectiveness from your wands, scrolls, and other items that cast spells, and +1/+2/+3 to the save DC of your offensive wands. Taking Wand and Scroll Mastery in one enhancement tree will block its availability in other enhancement trees.
Efficient Metamagic: Choose another Metamagic feat. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic.
Sharpshooter: +1 to hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2 and +1 SA dice.
Fighting Wizard: +1/+2/+3 to BAB. Rank 3: You gain +1 additional Sneak Attack Die.

Tier Three:
Sharpshooter: +1 to-hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2 and +1 SA dice.
Disable Construct: Activate: Target construct or living construct is dazed for 10/20/30 seconds. This effect is removed on damage. Using this ability on a target already affected by it will extend the duration. (Cooldown: 25 seconds)
Faster Sneaking: +20%/+35%/+50% movement speed while sneaking.
Efficient Metamagic: Choose another Metamagic feat. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic.
Dexterity or Intelligence: Choose one: +1 Dexterity or +1 Intelligence

Tier Four:
Sharpshooter: +1 to-hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. Non-repeating crossbows increase the damage to +2 and +1 SA dice.
Efficient Metamagic: Choose another Metamagic feat. Reduce the spell point cost of using that Metamagic.
Spell Penetration: You add +1 to your Caster Level check to overcome an enemy's Spell Resistance.
Dexterity or Intelligence: Choose one: +1 Dexterity or +1 Intelligence

Tier Five:
Sharpshooter: +3 to-hit and damage with all bows, crossbows, and thrown weapons. +3 additional damage with all non-repeating crossbows and +1 SA dice.
Arcane Supremacy: Your offensive spells gain a 10% chance to trigger Arcane Supremacy.
Arcane Supremacy: +25% Spell Critical Chance, +100% Spell Critical Damage. 12 seconds duration. This effect may trigger only once every 90 seconds.

[PsychoBlonde]

If you want to play an artificer, play an artificer. There's nothing new enough here to justify a tree for this.

[Igognito]

I plan to try Artificer the moment I unlock him.
But there is two huge differences...

(1) Wizard Spellcasting vs Artificer Spellcasting
(2) Arcane Trickster is based on Sneak Attack damage

At least that is how I see it.

And I think I know what more abilities would fit to Arcane trickster.
A three ranked ability that allows you do sneak attack constructs, undeads, elementals
A three ranked ability that reduces enemy fortification

But maybe you are right and it is not something that is needed in the game. Just something that I would like :-D

[cpw_acc]

I like your enthusiasm, but unfortunately your suggestions here are either not worth it or don't add anything that you can't already get from the existing trees.

For example:

Ranged legerdemain may be useful in pen-and-paper, but not so much in DDO except in the very few cases where a trap box is on the other side of the trap. And even then a Rogue has high reflex and evasion to just run to it anyway.

Impromptu sneak attack: Ignoring the passive part, you get this by Bluffing the enemy. Plus, the existing Assassin's Trick enhancement allows you to negate some of an enemy's fortification and sneak attack immunity.

The various enhancements that add skill bonuses: All available already as low-lying fruit in the existing rogue trees.

I like the idea of adding sneak attack to spells, but I think enhancements that require multiclassing are not a good idea, especially since with DDO (based on 3rd edition D&D rules), multiclasssing with a spellcasting class is never very optimal and so likely to dissuade people from ever going down that path.

[unbongwah]

Much of what you propose can already be achieved on a rogue / wizard who dabbles in multiple trees: e.g., the extra sneak attacks from Assassin, the ASF reduction from Eldritch Knight, the ranged bonuses from Mechanic, etc. While there are several trees with overlapping bonuses, there's no particular reason for the devs to add a new Enhancement tree which is just an amalgam of different trees rather than having its own identity. Also DDO has never had an Enhancement tree which required more than one class and I highly doubt they would add one now.

So welcome to DDO, but I don't think this is a particularly good proposal.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Ranged Legerdemain: You can use: Disable Device, Open Locks from 30ft. away. Increase DC by 5.

This is the only ability that is not already in the game. Unfortunately, that would also break the game since actually being at the trap box is a big part of disabling traps and there are a lot of things where you could bypass big parts of a quest if you could open a lock from 30 feet away.

Also, I noticed that you left out the biggest benefit of Arcane Trickster - adding Sneak Attack damage dice to some of your ranged spells. That would be a significant boost that I think a lot of people would like, but it would also be a lot of extra coding. It's really the only part of Arcane Trickster that would be different from what the game is today.

[PsychoBlonde]

This is the only ability that is not already in the game.

Actually, it IS in the game. Meet my Ranged Legerdemain:

[Igognito]

All following are new to the game (to the best of my knowledge):

Ranged Legerdemain
Active:
1) Open Doors/Use Valves/Use Switches from 15 (ranged sneak distance) meters away as if you have a strength score = intelligence.
2) You can use Open Locks, Disable Device from 15 meters away with a -5 penalty.
Passive:
-- Every point spend in the Arcane Trickster tree grants you +1 to Force Spell Power.
-- +1% doubleshot
Requires: Rogue Level 1 / Wizard Level 1

Impromptu Sneak Attack
Toggle:
Up to once every 6 seconds while a Impromptu Sneak Attack toggle is active, an attack you make that hits an enemy will cost you five (5) spell points.
That attack is a Sneak Attacks and delivers Sneak Attack damage. This only activates on creatures vulnerable to sneak attack damage.
Passive:
-- +1 Sneak Attack Die
-- -5% Arcane Spell Failure from equipped Light Armor
-- +10 Force Spell Power
Requires: Rogue Level 2 / Wizard Level 1

Sneaky Spells (3 ranks): Passive ability; Your damaging spells can deliver sneak damage. The 3 ranks are for the level of spells (1-3;4-6;7-9).

These are the 3 stuff that are unique to the tree...
The rest I added was to fill the tree, so I used existing stuff that seemed appropriate.
I was considering that it was better to be familiar as all trees have some similarities. If people think that more unique stuff are required then I can suggest a few more:

Variate Sneak (3 ranks)
Passive: Rank 1: you can do sneak on undead; rank 2: you can sneak constructs; rank 3: you can sneak elementals.
(oozes remain immune to sneak)

Penetrating Sneak (3 ranks)
Passive: Rank 1: reduce by 25% fortification; Rank 2: reduce by 50% fortification; Rank 3: reduce by 75% fortification.

True Trickster <---- that's the super power
Active: lasts 20sec you are trully invisible and soundless by any sense, ability or spell; you cannot be targeted by anything else than an area effect ability. All your attacks or damaging spells deliver sneak attack damage. Cooldown 2-3 mins.

That are 6 abilities I haven't seen... I have seen a bit of fortification reduction but not much. (Haven't checked all trees though)
Clearly all these require other abilities to back them. Those abilities already exist but should be added to the tree nevertheless...

You want more?

I can also build a telekinesis based chain

Starting from the telekinesis spell (which is not accessible to players); then telekinesis maneuver that causes 1 creature/lvl to fall prone; then telekinesis hold that causes 1 creature/lvl to be held; to telekinesis crush that causes 1d6 per 2 lvl unnamed damage to 1 creature/lvl + sneak attack (when applicable).

I think the best comment was by HungarianRhapsody. But I didn't left the spell sneak out! it is in the trees I suggested :-) you probably didn't noticed it.

The concept of an Arcane Trickster is a Wizard that plays with Stealth and Sneak Attack Damage to spells. That is not an Artificer :-P.


Oh to clarify something:

Impromptu Sneak has nothing to do with Bluff!
Bluff you need to activate, and the enemy has a roll to negate.
Impromptu is Toggle and the enemy has no save! Also Impromptu takes u no time to do!