Advice on Dwarven Axes and Shields and TYWA

[Darkfury]

(To set the tone, this is all geared around running with a guild mate or two, ideally running Epic Elites and being effective in a Raid scenario, not too worried about Reapers yet).

I have an existing Dwarf TWF with Dwarven Axes 2Rog/6Ranger/12 Fighter using Harpers INT ToHit and Damage. He is great

I had an alt with a spare +20 heart and decided I would try out a high AC/PRR/MRR tanky type. I used information from the "High Reaper Tank" build in the Fighter forums, but in no way should my questions be considered critique for that build, as I am seriously under specced regarding items and went well off the rails with regards to Feats and Enhancements. I tried to fit in Manyshot/IPS and Bow Strength, (stupidly) went with TWF feats and also 'splashed' some points in Kensei for Haste, Extra Boosts and Strike with no Thought.

I did take 1 level of Wizard for the Mage Armour SLA but I am seriously considering dropping that and maybe taking a level of Rogue (I miss my Rogue skills!) though echos of power refilling enough to cast a cocoon is handy if nothing else.

My main issue is melee DPS, especially with shield equipped (obviously all my fault for going all over the shop with Feats that do nothing in this instance). I am wondering if I switch a bunch of Feats around and go Shield Mastery and THF for the glancing blows with Dwarven Axes I can get some decent DPS going, which would also allow me to switch to a Two Hand Axe when I don't need quite so much protection perhaps. Or maybe I should see what I can do dropping some shield Enhancements and go primarily TWF.

Either way I can save a ton of Feats if I give up on IPS, Manyshot and Bow Strength. I just know from my main character, sometimes its handy to have burst damage from range, but maybe that's the wrong solution and I should be in there standing toe to toe with this one!

I also noticed I have 70+ Constitution (That's probably on the low side for many people) which led me to wonder if I should maybe take Throw Your Weight Around and do what I can to boost my Con further. Obviously thats an Enhancement investment, but theres lots of DAxe/Con/HP/Armor Agility rather than having to waste points on poor choices. Of course I really need about 140 Enhancement points... I know my tactics take a hit with TYWA as most are based off Strength, but Dire Charge for example seems to work fine (DC off highest stat which is nice).

My current Strength is around 44. I really need to gear up for Strength if I am not going TYWA, and in fact that alone would help my melee damage. I could also go everything to INT which would help if I switch my single level to Rogue (for skills), but then there goes a whole ton of Hit Points.

Feel free to comment on my ramblings, (or to request more information if I missed something vital to provide useful feedback) and thanks in advance. Over all I think I have tried to make a Heavy armour "Ranger" and do everything, and even a "mostly" Fighter doesn't have the Feats for that.

[Sebastrd]

Your build, somewhat like your post, sounds like it's all over the place. Optimized DDO builds must be focused - especially when it comes to feats. The first step would be to check out the typical build format in some of the other build threads and post your full build here in that format.

In the meantime, here are a couple of observations based on what you've already posted:

1. Your feats are all over the place. At a minimum you'll want to dump all of the archery feats for, assuming you want a shield, the two-handed fighting line.

2. The wizard level isn't crippling. It gets you some level 1 utility spells, such as shield, and the ability to use wands.

[Darkfury]

Thanks for the response and fair comment on the rambling post, sorry. It turned into me putting my thoughts down rather than asking specific questions I guess.

I will try a free LR and ditch archery as you suggest, its great to have but too many Feats by far to get Manyshot and IPS. I will see how my DPS fares with the full TWF line and shield mastery/ISM.

I will stick with Wizard too at least for now and see how I get on. Also finish gearing him up some more won't hurt.

[Sebastrd]

I will see how my DPS fares with the full TWF line and shield mastery/ISM.

THF, not TWF. TWF would be at odds with Shield Mastery. And if you have 70 Con vs. 44 Str, you might as well take TYWA. Those changes should improve your DPS, significantly.

[Enoach]

I've done the high constitution dwarf with Throw Your Weight. It is a good alternative especially with where your Constitution is at the moment.

I agree the Wizard Level is not crippling your build, as mentioned since you are using Eldritch Knight you are getting
1. A Cleave
2. Access to Improved Mage Armor up to +10% AC
3. Utility Spells like Shield and obscuring mist (20% concealment that True Seeing does not bypass so bosses cannot bypass the miss chance)

You will want to focus your feats more with the Two Handed Weapon line to improve your extra hits while using the Dwarven War Axe and Shield as well as Shield Mastery lines.

Now the Vanguard Shield Stuns and the Epic Destiny Feat Dire Charge use the better of your Attributes, so going CON won't hurt that, however, I believe you are right that the other Tactical feats like stunning blow and trips use strength.

You would benefit from optimizing your feat choices and with gearing you should be able to achieve your tanking goal.

[Darkfury]

Sorry yes typo on the TWF, meant switch to THF of course.

Thanks all for the advice. Will give it a go!

[unbongwah]

There are a number of TYWA builds in my Kundarak Brigade thread. Although I haven't posted a pure Vanguard build, ironically, because the high AP costs make it less than ideal. The only S&B TYWA build I have updated semi-recently was the Dwarven Defender Parody (bard 12 / ftr 6 / rog 2); but that uses handaxes, not dwarven axes.

[Darkfury]

Thanks Unbongwah. Sorry for the delay replying, I have been playing instead of returning to the forums!
I did look through your builds, I already have them as a favorite, so much great information! I will go back and look through them again and especially the bard one to see if I can learn things from the build. Often I read your posts about something unrelated but can use some part of it. I came back after a long break and read where you offered some advice about using other stats, "like INT from the Harpers tree". I checked that out and greatly increased my Ranger/Rogue/Fighters DPS and trap skills at the same time.

I will work out how to post a build correctly and post here how I have ended up, but I am loving it now. Not to show it off lol, I am sure there are plenty better and mine is just a bit stolen from here or there, but in case someone has some suggestions on how to improve it.

Thanks again all.

[CaptainPurge]

Thanks Unbongwah. Sorry for the delay replying, I have been playing instead of returning to the forums!

+8

[Firewyrm]

Lots going on here in this thread...

1) I disagree about going a level of wizard. It doesn't "cripple" but...the best part of the Dwarf/TYWA combo is the level 20 vanguard enhancement. It gives you a base % chance to stun on every shield attack, and its a game changer. I wouldn't EVER suggest a vanguard build at this point of DDO without the level 20 pure Vanguard enhancement.
2) As mentioned in #1, stunning is the bread/butter of vanguard. Between the Shield Charge, the Shield AOE Stun, your Vanguard Capstone, and shield bash you don't NEED the other Str tactical feats like stunning blow, trip, etc. You're gonna have a AOE stun, single target stun, and a shield charge stun already.
3) TYWA works wonderfully. There's a few disadvantages, like being a "tank" but not able to pull a Str lever But if you do try to use TYWA, I highly suggest building with that continuity in mind. Don't take Str based stuff. Max out your CON. If you go paladin, I don't suggest putting too much in CHA as you wont get the advantage of Cha->Str bonus.
4) Finally, archery? LMAO no. You will want to go ALL IN on Dwarven Axe. I'd personally take TWF, ITWF, and GTWF to go along with the Shield Mastery feats. An alternative is to take the Cleaves, but Cleave is Str based so...don't do it!
5) On Vanguard builds using TYWA around, I'd suggest going Precision instead of Power attack. Power attack requires STR and leads to feats you wont use. Precision is amazing at Epic levels (and especially bosses), blends better with Dex since you're abandoning STR.

My main, Dradal Destroyer of Worlds, is a Paladin 10x over and I've experimented with every darn vanguard/dwarven axe combo I can imagine, and that's where I've landed. Best of luck!