Reaper xp: better at lvl 30 or at heroic lvls?

[mikarddo]

So if I'm reading this right, in heroics one could be zerging R1 as fast as possible, piling mobs up to alert and AoEing them down. Just go for the 50 base RXP.

With an average heroic quest level of 10, this gives 80 RXP at R1, +30 per additional skull. One would have to go to R4 to double heroic RXP. But one can pile to red alert on R1 and AoE them down at once, making it much faster than twice as fast as R4. Plus due to damage reduction formula you deal more than twice the damage on R1 as R4.


Reaper 1 skull 1428 dmg = 71,4%
Reaper 2 skull 1052 dmg = 52,6%
Reaper 3 skull 770 dmg = 38,5%
Reaper 4 skull 572 dmg = 28,6% << takes over 2x as long to dps something down than R1.

Running to and from the quest still takes the same though and so does running within the quest.
Instakilling (assuming proper ability) also takes the same time and some mobs you simply overkill on R1 meaning they dont really take longer on R4 or not as much longer as the dps numbers would indicate.

So, its not as clear cut as measuring dps as thats only part of the equation. Some quests you can probably run using only 10% more time on R4 compared to R1 everything included even if the dps indicates that it should take more than twice as long, so its highly quest and group dependent.

As an example from some xp/min numbers I collected a while back - Ghost of Perdition took me roughly 8 mins on R1 grouped included getting to the quest and roughly 9 mins grouped on R3 so R3 is better rxp/min but worse xp/min for me in this case. This wasnt a controlled experiment but still shows concept.

[Cantor]

So if I'm reading this right, in heroics one could be zerging R1 as fast as possible, piling mobs up to alert and AoEing them down. Just go for the 50 base RXP.

With an average heroic quest level of 10, this gives 80 RXP at R1, +30 per additional skull. One would have to go to R4 to double heroic RXP. But one can pile to red alert on R1 and AoE them down at once, making it much faster than twice as fast as R4. Plus due to damage reduction formula you deal more than twice the damage on R1 as R4.


Reaper 1 skull 1428 dmg = 71,4%
Reaper 2 skull 1052 dmg = 52,6%
Reaper 3 skull 770 dmg = 38,5%
Reaper 4 skull 572 dmg = 28,6% << takes over 2x as long to dps something down than R1.

You've oversimplified. Run time through the world and through quests takes longer than DPS time.

It also doesn't make sense to look at the average and decide what to do. I agree that below level 6 or so, there is no reason to go above R1 unless it takes no additional time to complete. Depending on your group this may be r2-r4. But, if you run GH below R3 you are just throwing away rxp. By 17-19 completion times may start to spike as you increase skulls, or not, depending on group.

I tend to do R2-3 at low levels then R3-5 level 6-teens and maybe drop back to R2s or even R1s at 17 to rush the heroic exp excited about the next TR.

edit: bah, Mikarddo already made some of these points.

[Tilomere]

You've oversimplified.

We both did. There is also the matter of how cautiously you have to build/play in order to complete a quest on higher reaper. And wether or not you are playing on the default server, where your group mates are commonly first and second life characters who don't even know how to get to the quest.

For example, to have a high % chance of completing a harder quest R3 without dying, playing safely on a tanky build:



Playing that same quest also R3 on a higher dps build, but death/jibbers death due to trying to play faster and being on a squishier build (should have built soundburst + falconry No Mercy into this)(It's been 5 years, think they can fix air savant caster levels to sonic spells soon?):



Dropping down to R1, zerging on a max dps build, with waiting on a guildy to zone in:



Yes there is time running and gearing and leveling and hitting levers and stuff, but you can't avoid any of that time collecting your past lives anyways.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

lvl 30 wins @ about 300 rXP a minute in a static r10 group with NO pots. In heroics I think we were pulling 200 rXP a minute with pots. The doubling of rXP at cap put at cap play in motion.

It takes us 10 to 15min to do a Grim and Barret on r10 though. There are groups on Gland running the following quests daily:

Quest Progression (This is Pelc's):
Memoirs -> BIS stat helm
Grim and Barret
Multitude
Subversion
Mists
Death House
Amber x2 -> BIS dps cloak
Age of Rage -> BIS stat helm

That is 9 quests at about 4300 rXP a pop, without any pot.
That's 38700 rXP a day for about 2 hours of playing.

Say you did it 5 days a week, thats 193,500 rXP---or Reaper wings in 27 weeks.

Other quests are quite good:
Nightfalls on Stormreach (12-15min)
The Madness of Crowds (12-15min)
Oath of Vengeance (12-15min)

Quests you do on r7 for chance at reaper/mythic silent avenger stuff.
Fresh Baked Dreams (Armor) {15min}
The Final Vintage (Belt) {15min}
Sunrise (Robes) {20min}

[Shadow_Jumper]

lvl 30 wins @ about 300 rXP a minute in a static r10 group with NO pots. In heroics I think we were pulling 200 rXP a minute with pots. The doubling of rXP at cap put at cap play in motion.

For the more advanced RXP farmer:

Absolute best RXP per minute is R10 LHoX.

5-7 minutes, 17,000 RXP with 50% pot and first time bonus

[Sam-u-r-eye]

For the more advanced RXP farmer:

Absolute best RXP per minute is R10 LHoX.

5-7 minutes, 17,000 RXP with 50% pot and first time bonus

I see another rogue on the server with wings that's not you maaaaaan.
Am talkin' bout' sustainable yoooooooo, not silly fun stuff like thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaat

yo

<3

[Sam-u-r-eye]

[Sam-u-r-eye]

(Advancement): You've been awarded 4,866 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 11min Memoirs
(Advancement): You've been awarded 5,637 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 9min Grim and Barret
(Advancement): You've been awarded 5,637 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 13min Multitude
(Advancement): You've been awarded 4,719 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 8.5min Subversion
(Advancement): You've been awarded 2,792 Reaper Experience Points for completing the dungeon on Reaper Mode! ~ 7min Into the Mists (I died, so -10%)

I didn't do the ambers and Age of Rage today.

The above is 487 rxp/min
Take away the 25% bonus from buddy and it goes a bit lower, but I didn't have a vom either. (So 20%.)

[Grandern_Marn]

The question is simply 'better at lvl 30 or heroics', there are no qualifiers for new players or anything.

With that in mind r10 at cap is the best rxp in game. The runs will take more time and you need a solid group but I've had some runs up around 9 or 10k rxp.

Heroics your kind of plinking along, 200rxp here, 41 there, sometime there are only elite runs in the lfms, you luck out and get an r4 where you get 500rxp.
It's pretty hit and miss, no way to really build up reaper points. I'll keep one of my 4 toons at cap and run raids and for reaper points while leveling the others.

[Tilomere]

You get the RXP every minute that I do every quest. Ahh well, so don't worry about RXP too much in heroics, it comes with sentient xp at cap.

Ty for sharing and paving the way! By the time I get through racials you can all just carry me through R10s.

[Adorse]

I don't play as often as I used to but I'm pretty sure RXP is easier to obtain in Heroics.

[psykopeta]

I don't play as often as I used to but I'm pretty sure RXP is easier to obtain in Heroics.

i was getting 50k rxp per day without pot on non buddy bonus days doing.... memoirs chain, house J all but toxic treatment, and RL 8 of them, not repeating amber, on r8-6 due to sometimes not having healer or cc

there's absolutely no way you can get the same rxp on heroics, if your concept of easier is "i can solo r1 so it's easier" yes, it's true

if your concept of easier is "doing r1 til cap heroic i get the same xp than 2 days at cap" then you're wrong, ofc

the average xp you get on a life on r1 til cap is 75k, that's the amount if you go with pot or without, the reason is quite simple, with pot you level faster so you run less quests

that takes you around 3 days of play (my guildie does that, and these are his numbers, which match with mine w/o using pot and obviously taking more time), in same time at cap you get double rxp

atm even farming amber with 80% penalty gets you more rxp than heroics

so fastest way is r1 til cap, once you're bored, go 30 and with 1st time bonuses and some dailies, til you get bored, then back to r1 heroics

unless you have a static group of pots chuggers well coordinated, geared and useful builds, so you can run higher heroics w/o taking too much time

[Ellihor]

lvl 30 wins @ about 300 rXP a minute in a static r10 group with NO pots. In heroics I think we were pulling 200 rXP a minute with pots. The doubling of rXP at cap put at cap play in motion.

It takes us 10 to 15min to do a Grim and Barret on r10 though. There are groups on Gland running the following quests daily:

Is that still hapenning daily? If that is true moving server is really becoming intresting

[jskinner937]

Heroics easily blows away RXP generated.
On one toon I have completed my 33 lives of Racial TR'ing and obtained about 3 million RXP giving 55 Reaper points.
My other toon that I kept at cap raiding and running Legendary content (including Reaper 10's) I have obtained just under 400K RXP (19 points).
Both have been run about the same amount of overall time.

I have obtained 10x the RXP doing heroic levelling for the same relative amount of playing time on both toons...


There are several factors.

The Reaper XP formula is fundamentally flawed.
~Base Reaper XP = 50 + 3 * (quest level on normal) * (number of skulls) * Length bonus (0.8 for short, 1 for medium, 1.2 for long, 1.4 for very long) ~

1. Legendary Levels where the content gets longer and comparably more difficult at level is not appropriately rewarded.

2. RXP/min.
Heroic content is completed much more quickly via TR lives. Epic XP pays better RXP/quest, but the RXP/min declines significantly

3. Over level penalties.
The over level penalties screw RXP deterring players from running Reaper XP in higher level content
for instance. Epic XP in Von 5 (a level 22 epic quest) can be run level 20-30.. no penalties..,
in Reaper however, a level 23 player incurs a 20% penalty, a level 24 player incurs a 50% penalty, a level 28 player incurrs a 95% penalty, and level 29/30 players are just screwed since they are locked out completely.

4. XP pots.
Great for quick content since you optimize your xp/min.
In higher levels where content is run in a variety of difficulties and content is much longer duration due to increased difficulty pot usage suffers.
Higher level Reaper content exponentially increases in quest time in high level content.
There is no pause button for XP pots.
which results in pots being overly expensive when running Epic levels, and pointless when running Legendary levels.

5. player capabilities..
More players are capable of running Reaper in heroic content than in Epic or Legendary content.
This results in a smaller pool of capable players running high level content in Reaper , let alone higher level reaper difficulty.
Good players can solo low level content in reaper and carry weaker players through, in higher levels there is less buffer range.. In legendary there is no room for it.
Epics end up getting dropped down in Reaper or even down to Elites for those of us not sucked into dailies of EN/EH.. to just get through the content or levelling off destinies.

6. Heroic content can be run at at level with higher skulls with lower failure risk and pace can be easily adjusted for RXP/min running first time bonuses without any need to repeat any content, optimizing all bonuses.
Epic Content is much more of a slug fest and snail crawl pace.
Capped toon RXP/min drops significantly losing ground due to in quest time, loss of bonuses while being stuck repeating limited at level content.


I would look at a couple primary factors to correct the player range RXP.

1. The formula should be better adjusted to add a multiplier for Epic and Legendary difficulty.

2. change the Reaper XP penalty calculation..
a. remove the lockout... the 95% penalty hit is already punitive enough.
b. instead of player level vs quest base to scale penalties..
Take player level vs (Quest level + Reaper Skulls)

In the example of Von5 above...
instead of locking out level 29 and 30 players and 95% penalty to having level 28 players...
quest level 22 +Reaper 8 skulls and no lockout means level 30 players can enter Von5 and still get Reaper XP... lower the skulls and penalties apply..

This way, to run Von 5 with level 30 players you would have to run Reaper 8 skulls to incur no penalty and obtain full base RXP.
This would allow players to run all available content instead of screwing over level players out of being able to run content in reaper difficulty that they can run in non-reaper without penalty.

Players can then broaden their play range and actually play content in Reaper mode on their capped toons beyond the few Legendary at level quests they are stuck with without having to TR.

I whole heartedly disagree. First time bonuses help a lot and obviously there is more opportunities for 1st time bonuses leveling up. But you can run high reapers successfully at cap and get double on lvl 30+ quests. Each life I purposes run about 20 quests for a total of 100k rXP on R7-10 once I hit 30. It takes about 2.5 hrs. The whole heroic TR usually equates to about half that and takes 3-7 days.

The point being squeeze every bit of rXP out of each life taking advantage of first time bonuses, including legendary quests before HTR/IR/RTR. That’s is fastest.

[jskinner937]

You get the RXP every minute that I do every quest. Ahh well, so don't worry about RXP too much in heroics, it comes with sentient xp at cap.

Ty for sharing and paving the way! By the time I get through racials you can all just carry me through R10s.

I don’t understand at all. You build these wis/soundburst/frog builds that outperform everything in reapers and you don’t care about rXP and want people to carry you? I am confused.

[jskinner937]

If I was going to finish past lives, to go to cap and stay, then doing a quest twice at R1 over two different lives instead of once on R4 gets me to cap 2x as fast, and the same amount of RXP per time.

Now I understand why I mostly see just R1 in heroics.

I don’t have to say it, and nor should I because I have never played with this person. But Tilo must be a terrible player, giving terrible advice to others, all you have to do is read posts on the vault.

[JOTMON]

I whole heartedly disagree. First time bonuses help a lot and obviously there is more opportunities for 1st time bonuses leveling up. But you can run high reapers successfully at cap and get double on lvl 30+ quests. Each life I purposes run about 20 quests for a total of 100k rXP on R7-10 once I hit 30. It takes about 2.5 hrs. The whole heroic TR usually equates to about half that and takes 3-7 days.

The point being squeeze every bit of rXP out of each life taking advantage of first time bonuses, including legendary quests before HTR/IR/RTR. That’s is fastest.

Disagree all you want with my 9 month old post.
My view was based only on my play time experience where I had split time between 2 toons 1 TR'ing and 1 not TR'ing.

You are trying to compare what you are doing as being relevant to the OP thread... which it isn't.

Do you think it is better to run potions at heroic levels to also benefit from Racial past lives or run potions at lvl 30 to maximize the reaper XP and do no more heroic xp?
Thanks.

..a TR process which finishes off with some high level reaper at cap before TR'ing again.. is not a non-TR'ing endgame RXP runner.




My TR toon that I started with is now 3x racial completionist and has 76 points and is currently sitting at cap doing endgame stuff leaving me time to TR another toon from scratch who is currently up to 57 points.
vs
My capped toon that I did not TR who has been doing raiding/cap level play and has only reached 38 points and has no racial past lives... which I will Still want to do..
so I have surpassed RXP on my stay at cap toon twice on TR alts.

Yes, fist time bonusses make it worth while, as well as the perks of running past lives for the past life bonusses.. its a nice synergy.

That high skull Reaper xp you get is generally all you are getting, since xp, destiny, and past life farming are not desirable in R10 content, but are just fine in lower skull TR speed levelling lives.

I run high Skull content at level 30 with and without groups, generally most R10's do require a better teamwork dynamic.
but it is still plagued with issues for non-TR toons.. no first time bonusses, daily run limits to avoid xp ransacking, boredom from running the same block of decent RXP content,
decline of xp pot usage since my toons also raid.

The other issue is we are getting screwed for RXP in raids.

[Kaboom2112]

Is that still hapenning daily? If that is true moving server is really becoming intresting

Not as often as it used to but yes, still being run daily.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

but it is still plagued with issues for non-TR toons.. no first time bonusses, daily run limits to avoid xp ransacking, boredom from running the same block of decent RXP content,
decline of xp pot usage since my toons also raid.

great point

[Ellihor]

no first time bonusses, daily run limits to avoid xp ransacking, boredom from running the same block of decent RXP content,
decline of xp pot usage since my toons also raid.

The other issue is we are getting screwed for RXP in raids.

A simple solution would berefreshing the first time bonus every day if you are lv 30. If they did that, people would stop doing iconics only to refresh it and play a cap instead, if they wanted to stay there.

Also, pausing XP potions at raids just like slayer potions are paused in quests would be great.

And finally, of course, adjusting the RXP for each quest by it's time and difficulty, that would need to be done quest by quest and not just a general system of long, medium and short like it currently is.

It would also be great to revitaiize content like Storhorns, if they allowed lv 30s to play there without the RXP penality, in a special difficulty that scales the quest like it was a lv 30 quest.