Scratch Pad for Build-fu

[unbongwah]

I also took Natural fighting instead of cleave and great cleave feats.

I went with both since I don't really need metamagics besides Quicken and the latest patch slightly ungimps NF by adding +4% doublestrike back into them. I thought about Stunning Blow but was concerned I couldn't get DCs high enough on pure druid even with max STR+KtA.

( I am curious why you are taking intelligence and dumping wisdom )

Extra skill pts + Know the Angles which IIUC will now carry over to wolf form. So WIS becomes a dump stat since I only need it to meet caster pre-req.

You take Falcion proficiency- why not go half elf with Fighter dilly for the effective same amount of feats and then opens you up to weapons like SoS and Carnifex while leveling- and then gives you freedom to use whatever weapon you want at endgame? I know you lose out on the damage boost but IMO it's worth it.

Because the alt in question is already HO w/HoW +20 and I don't want to TR. Also I have a heroic SOS and Cleaver on this toon; so level with SOS then feat-swap @ 22 to switch to Cleaver. I don't need the added versatility of HE ftr dilly when my leveling weapons are already decided.

I also want to see if Brutality stacks with Balanced Attacks. But even if it doesn't and I don't use Rage, there's still a big net DPS gain from +4 racial STR (+2 mod -> +3 dmg), +8 damage from Orcish Weapon Training, and +6 damage from HO Improved Power Attack.

I've considered this split - do you think the storm/SLAs will make up for losing the Cleave line?

It's basically what my pure wolf druid build is currently like, only the TWF exploit is going away so I replace it with a falchion. [Unless I decide to use an orb for caster bonuses in which case...err scimitar I guess? Or khopesh?] Is it the best DPS option? Probably not, but I don't care.

[Maelodic]

Concept - just getting the idea out

Improved Feint
12 Rogue/8 Druid
Dex Based
Points in hide

1 Power Attack
1h Cleave
3 Great Cleave
6 Precision
9 Quicken
12 IC: Slash
15 Natural Fighting
18 Natural Fighting
21 Improved Sneak Attack
24 Overwhelming Crit
27 Epic Damage Reduction
30 Natural Fighting

Rogue: Opportunist (Or improved evasion)

26 Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
28 Elusive Target
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Etheral

Wolf T5s for your bajillion cleaves (+Fort bypass). Assassin T4 for killer (or vistani T4 for crit profile and vistani goodies). Nature defensive stance. Some slush left over.

Gather everything up. Quicken sleet storm for no save blind. Pop defensive cooldown. Cleave like crazy for tons of sneak attack.

Could also go 10 Rogue/8 Druid/2 Bard and trade 4 sneak attack dice for an extra cleave (en point).

Would need to use either QStaves or daggers.

[unbongwah]

No Improved Feint? You're the one who keeps singing the praises for Imp Feint. EDIT: no wait I'm thinking of Saekee nm.

If you're going for tier-5 NW with that split, then you need Vistani if you want crit bonuses to your weapons.

Staves seem suboptimal: the attack speed and Quick Strike bonuses don't work in wolf form; and you need tier-5 Acrobat (or Henshin) for Staff Spec if you want +1 crit range & multiplier (meaning no Alpha Strike etc). Wood staves would benefit from (Improved) Shillelagh, of course, but it seems like all the best staves are non-wooden.

[Maelodic]

No Improved Feint? You're the one who keeps singing the praises for Imp Feint.

Keeps? Implying I've ever liked it before? =P

If you're going for tier-5 NW with that split, then you need Vistani if you want crit bonuses to your weapons.

Staves seem suboptimal: the attack speed and Quick Strike bonuses don't work in wolf form; and you need tier-5 Acrobat (or Henshin) for Staff Spec if you want +1 crit range & multiplier (meaning no Alpha Strike etc). Wood staves would benefit from (Improved) Shillelagh, of course, but it seems like all the best staves are non-wooden.

I think Vistani is probably a better fit than anything else - nothing in the Rogue trees can really make up for what Vistani T4 offers.

If you didn't catch the edit, I called out Vistani

[edrein]

Concept - just getting the idea out

Improved Feint
12 Rogue/8 Druid
Dex Based
Points in hide

1 Power Attack
1h Cleave
3 Great Cleave
6 Precision
9 Quicken
12 IC: Slash
15 Natural Fighting
18 Natural Fighting
21 Improved Sneak Attack
24 Overwhelming Crit
27 Epic Damage Reduction
30 Natural Fighting

Rogue: Opportunist (Or improved evasion)

26 Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
28 Elusive Target
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Etheral

Wolf T5s for your bajillion cleaves (+Fort bypass). Assassin T4 for killer (or vistani T4 for crit profile and vistani goodies). Nature defensive stance. Some slush left over.

Gather everything up. Quicken sleet storm for no save blind. Pop defensive cooldown. Cleave like crazy for tons of sneak attack.

Could also go 10 Rogue/8 Druid/2 Bard and trade 4 sneak attack dice for an extra cleave (en point).

Would need to use either QStaves or daggers.

From a single target perspective, wouldn't it be better to take T5 assassin and cheese via Measure the Foes melee power? Although all of the cleaves does make this sound appealing.

[Maelodic]

It's basically what my pure wolf druid build is currently like, only the TWF exploit is going away so I replace it with a falchion. [Unless I decide to use an orb for caster bonuses in which case...err scimitar I guess? Or khopesh?] Is it the best DPS option? Probably not, but I don't care.

I'll probably try this instead of my more cleave heavy route - GCC and CC with max+emp+winter hunt will probably hit pretty dang hard and I like dots on bosses. Using wolf as essentially a beefy SLA is probably what I'm looking for, and I can always LR or ETR into my cleave heavy route if I go for Gnome and use scimmies, hammers, or whatever else.

Does it "work" on your current wolf? Can you solo EE with it?

[Maelodic]

From a single target perspective, wouldn't it be better to take T5 assassin and cheese via Measure the Foes melee power? Although all of the cleaves does make this sound appealing.

Not really. Go For the Kill is 15-30 MP which is nothing to laugh at, on top of having huge crit threat when you do use it. It also has 100% uptime- the most measure the foe will have over Go for the kill is 15 MP (if you stay in the lower range using go), and the majority of the time it'll lose out.

Throat rip also adds a ton of sneak attack damage to blinded mobs so any kind of HP sack that you can sneak attack, using throat rip consistently is going to shred it.

[unbongwah]

Does it "work" on your current wolf? Can you solo EE with it?

No, but that's because it's a first-lifer with crummy gear. It handles regular EE mobs okay but then a champ shows up and it's like OH WELL.

It's sitting at lvl 20 so current plan is to HTR into PDK before U38 comes out so I can claim that free HoW +3 to get rid of the ftr lvl post-U38.

[Maelodic]

No, but that's because it's a first-lifer with crummy gear. It handles regular EE mobs okay but then a champ shows up and it's like OH WELL.

It's sitting at lvl 20 so current plan is to HTR into PDK before U38 comes out so I can claim that free HoW +3 to get rid of the ftr lvl post-U38.

Well, if it's a first lifer with crummy gear and it handles regular EE mobs okay, I'm assuming a decently geared post-pass gimp druid would probably work for EEs just fine.

I think I'll pull the trigger on my HTR for the +3 HoW and get into deep gnome because leveling up to 15 is so last week.

If I hate it I'll just ETR into the other hybrid I made.

[unbongwah]

I've been mulling how some of the classic wolf builds will fare post-U38 and I suspect the Woodchipper will hold up better than most. SWF will no longer work in wolf form so you'll want to switch to a 2H weapon (e.g., greataxe, falchion). And you no longer need druid 9 for Natural Fighting feats, so perhaps druid 8 / monk 6 / ftr 6 is a better split. But since it was always intended to be a centered toon, the weapon bonuses carrying over to animal form improves it in that regard. And now that alternate stats will apply to damage, that opens new possibilities: e.g., DEX-based using Ninja cores, INT-based via Harper, CON-based dwarf (TYWA).

BTW did anyone test how Whirlwind Attack works with the revised animal forms?

[Tilomere]

Here's an old classic for a new day. This is going to be my update 38 build. It is going to be a tanky, self-healing, trapping, CC, AoE dps annihilator.

Electric Gibzilla (Critzilla for Update 38)

Any race, max + levels wisdom, high int, true neutral

1 Arti Maximize
2 Arti
3 Arti Completionist
4 Arti Empower
5 Arti
6 Arti PL:Wiz
7 Arti
8 Arti Quicken
9 Arti Spell Pen
10 Cleric (Free feat: heavy armor)
11 Cleric Magic Domain (+Evo/+USP)
12 Cleric Spell Pen #2
13 Druid
14 Druid bear form
15 Druid Evo Focus
16 Arti
17 Arti
18 Arti Evo Focus #2 Heighten
19 Arti if going into epics
20 Reincarnate (Arti if going into epics)

Sword 'n board tanky caster build.

level 12:
39 AP AT > T5 C3 at level 12, (Motesx3, evox3)
9 AP Divine Disciple (1% crit, 2 spell pen

Level 15:
39 AP AT > T5 C3 at level 12, (Motes, evox3)
8 AP SH (4% crit, +1 caster level, winter is coming)
12 AP NW Prey on Weak (15% helpless dmg)
1 AP NP

Level 16: 8 AP SH reset becomes 11 AP DD +3 Spell Pen

Level 17-19: AP as you see fit (SH or NP)

(Math edited out, you don't want to know what this hits for!)

21 Spell Pen #3
24 Master of Artifice
26 Lightning SP
27 BoGW
28 ?
29 ?
30 Scion of Air, Intensify or Master of Air

Twist +3 lightning caster levels, spell pen to Sense weakness or EB (Non-lightning), evo focus draconic, cocoon into evo line in magistar

The 14 arti caster levels combines with +1 from druid and +5 from magistar to cast at level 20, max level 20 caster level with master of artifice.
Evo line in magistar and +3 caster levels/max caster levels twisted in from draconic will give level 26 total caster levels/max caster levels on lightning spells and slas.

Stunning first with soundburst will double damage in epics.

[edrein]

-snip-

Don't use an runearm or you're in for a bad time.

[Tilomere]

Don't use an runearm or you're in for a bad time.

Heh, who uses a runearm on an arti? That's just being silly.

Runearms are for monks.

Or at least they were. They did some beastly damage with all the monk melee power scaling the imbue at 200%. 400 melee power was 800% scaling. Heh.

It was not meant to be chérie.

[unbongwah]

Here's one just for the lulz: a freezing bearchanter.

Race: PDK
Class: bard 16 / druid 3 / FvS 1
Stats: CHA 18 (+lvl-ups) / CON 18 / STR 10 / DEX 10 w/ +3 Supreme tome
Feats: Power Atk / CL / GC; Precision; Quicken; SF:Enchant; IC:Slash; Natural Fighting x3; OC; Epic DR
Enhancements: 40-ish WC (tier-5s) / 13 NP (Ursa Protector) / 12 NW (Prey on the Weak) / 4 WS (Div Presence) / 3 PDK (CKT)

Gameplay: freeze enemies with Spinning Ice; follow up with CL+GC; toss out the occasional disco ball; rinse, repeat. +15% damage vs helpless from PotW; +25% HPs from Ursa's Protector.

Drawbacks: requires LR +1; no crit bonuses apart from Howl of the North; stuck with greatswords which are mediocre apart from eSOS.

EDIT: would obviously work in wolf form too; effectively trading +25% HPs from Ursa's Protector and glancing blows from bear form for +20% attack speed from base wolf form.

[Maelodic]

BTW did anyone test how Whirlwind Attack works with the revised animal forms?

It does on wolf, same animation as Alpha Strike.

[unbongwah]

It does on wolf, same animation as Alpha Strike.

What I meant was: it is worthwhile like for unarmed builds; or is it hot garbage like for weapon builds?

[Tilomere]

del

[Maelodic]

Here's the two wolf builds that currently dominate my thinking, I'll be running the first on my freshly reincarnated monk:

Hybrid - Light Hammers + Epic casting
Deep Gnome INT/WIS (WIS levels)
1 Power Attack
3 Cleave
6 Great Cleave
9 Insightful Reflexes
12 IC: Bludgeon
15 Quicken
18 Heighten
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Burst of Glacial Wrath
27 Spell Focus: Evo
30 Natural Fighting (filler)

26 Perfect TWF
28 Tactician
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Fire (Others might be better)

Important Twists:
Energy Burst - Cold
Legendary Tactics
Spell Focus: Evo

17 in (Deep) Gnome for Crit Threat / Damage Boosts / INT (WIS)
41 in Warrior for T5s and Capstone
6 in Protector for PRR/MRR.
12 in Harper for Strategic Combat II / KTA
4 in Herald for Beguile

Howl of winter works for energy burst and BOGW. Things go boom even with modest investment

----

Full Melee in heavy armor
Half Elf or Human (any race works, natural fighting feats can be moved around for weapon proficiencies)
STR / WIS - Levels in STR
1 Power Attack
1 Weapon Proficiency or Dilly: Fighter
3 Cleave
6 Great Cleave
9 Quicken
12 IC: Slashing
15 Precision
18 Natural Fighting
21 Overwhelming Critical
24 Natural Fighting
27 Natural Fighting
30 Blinding Speed / PRR (filler)

26 Perfect TWF
28 Tactician
29 Dire Charge
30 Scion of Fire

41 in Warrior for T5 cleaves and Capstone
24 in Protector for spells while raged, immunity to energy drain
Whatever else you want. More points in protector is good, racials are often awesome.
2 racial points and you can still do 41 NW, 24 NP, 17 Gnome/Deep Gnome for crit threat, but you lose out on two handed weapons.

[CPDK9]

Looking for some advice on where to go with my PDK wolf currently at cap and can Iconic TR. I'd like to stay PDK cause it's a BIG WOLF. Thoughts on 18 druid / 2 fgt split - sort of pure but splashed fgt for extra feats. Do bastard swords produce glancing blows in animal form? Thoughts on majority of points between nature warrior for all the wolf stuff and protector for raging and undying beast? Or should I ignore rage stuff and boost spells by spending in Season's herald?

[elvesunited]

Looking for some advice on where to go with my PDK wolf currently at cap and can Iconic TR. I'd like to stay PDK cause it's a BIG WOLF. Thoughts on 18 druid / 2 fgt split - sort of pure but splashed fgt for extra feats. Do bastard swords produce glancing blows in animal form? Thoughts on majority of points between nature warrior for all the wolf stuff and protector for raging and undying beast? Or should I ignore rage stuff and boost spells by spending in Season's herald?

Bastard swords do not provide glancing blows in animal form.

Currently my PDK wolf is:

16 Druid 4 Fighter 1 Barbarian
41 Vistani 16 Stalwart 23 Nature Warrior

I haven't reincarnated yet as I'm thinking we might get a "fix" this week or next week as i think they released the druid changes before they were ready. I don't want to commit to a build and have the rug pulled from under me. But I did experiment with the enhancements. ( it's only gold )

Stalwart provides +6 strength +3 weapon enhancement 16 hp 25 PRR/MRR. And unless they fix it/change minds i'd suggest weapon Item Defense as weapon damage is proving quite the problem for the wolf. ( It's almost as if weapons in wolf form have a hardness of 0 )

Barbarian provides +10% movement and before the update I was getting improved power attack through ravager. I probably won't keep it when I reincarnate.

The tier 5 Nature Warrior stuff wasn't impressive enough so i went with Tier 5 Vistani.

Right now even though my feats are horribly horked up the wolf is doing better DPS than it was before. ( and that's with a dagger )

Dodge ( no longer needed as pre-req )
Two weapon fighting, improved two weapon fighting, Greater Two weapon fighting ( no longer works )
Shield mastery, improved shield master ( no longer works through legendary shield mastery does )
Improved critical Bludgeon ( need slashing now )
Nature fighting x3 ( one taken at level 24 )
Power attack
Overwhelming Critical
Quicken

I'm thinking replacing with

Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Prof, Weapon Spec

and i still may take Shield mastery and improved shield mastery in epics just to twist Legendary shield Mastery.

--------------------------------------------------

An odder combination that i think will still get you the "big wolf"

Deep Gnome ( int maxed )
1 Wizard 17 druid 2 Fighter
38 harper 24 Nature Warrior 6 nature protector. 11 kensei 1 eldritch knight

Harper can get you know the angles which will give you the best innate animal spell DC possible and a significant damage boost. Tier 5 of harper gets you deception with any weapon. So you can go with the biggest two-handed weapon you can think of and still get your sneak attacks. And of course int for damage and int for to hit.