Lammania Druid Update

[SerPounce]

Hmm, does it? I'll have to adjust my build ideas accordingly then.

Just tested, and yes, you get glancing blow damage in bear for regardless of weapon type (got them using a dagger and unarmed).

On the other hand you do NOT get glancing blow damage with cleaves (like you do with 2 handers generally). I imagine that's probably vaguely not WAI, but I wouldn't count on it changing.

Other notes: Slivanus maul crit range does work in animal form. Swashbucking continues to not work (as the tooltips state, so WAI, but I thought I'd check since that would be sweet).

[edrein]

Edit: I'd like to say that my review is based on my list of bugs/issues here. https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6077627


Overall the bear changes are an improvement.

However, the one thing I feel like they fail in so far is damage. None of their abilities scale high enough with melee power to be effective in epics let alone reaper. While I managed to kill Kobolds relatively quickly with my live melee set (which hasn't been updated since Thunderforged gear came out due to my ETRing/Racial/Break from the game), I noticed my AoE potential was awful. Abilities made to deal AoE via melee power scaling were just plain atrocious. Cleaves are buggy at the moment as well.

I didn't get to test the defenses in a live trial by fire, but they looked decent, certainly for the fact I was wearing only a Dethek Runestone and no actual armor, and sitting at about 50% defense chance.

Not a fan of the defensive stance within the tree preventing glancing blows. This needs to be handled as a weapon stance like Venomed Blades. As a melee DPS practically needs the 25% HP bonus if they want to live long enough to actually perform their role.

Overall it felt like a nice flavored mix between barbarian and a caster, though clearly not as strong as a warlock or the various bard/rogue warlock melee splits you see running amuck in heroics.

I think bears and wolves need to use the their highest stat for casting similar to Dire Charge. Or at the very least, let us use the thematic tree bonuses. AKA: Bears can use Con/Str/Wis and wolves can use Dex/Str/Wis.

I don't want to touch the wolves personally, wasn't a big fan of the animations and wanted to get my feeling of being a powerful vengeful bear in. So to a degree thanks for giving me part of this. Hope my feedback helps and if need be I'd be glad to speak on length via discord or on lammania, or even in PMs if need be.

[unbongwah]

Bear form gains glancing blows as if it was using a two handed weapon. Abilities that increase your glance damage, chance apply normally though this does not include improved two handed fighting feats which are "combat styles". See natural weapon fighting. Glancing blows are disabled when the fighting defensively feat is toggled on

Not a fan of the defensive stance within the tree preventing glancing blows.

I read the OP as meaning the Defensive Fighting feat disables glancing blows; are you saying Nature's Defense stance disables glancing blows? Have you tested that?

[edrein]

[/INDENT]

I read the OP as meaning the Defensive Fighting feat disables glancing blows; are you saying Nature's Defense stance disables glancing blows? Have you tested that?

I tested it. Refer to my list of bugs/issues on the first page of the thread.

[Ahwaric]

(2) on live seasons hearld offers several transmutation bonuses. All of these are droped. This is unfortunate as druid has several solid transmutation options. The previous bonus allowed druids to have a better chance of landing them. Please re-introduce transmutation bonuses back into the tree. They are not over powered they allow additional spell options to druids.

I have posted this in both feedback threads. Transmutation is nice for druids, and removing the transmutation DC bonuses hurts water druids mostly. I do not think that was the intention, or should not be Fire elemental gets healing spells boost, water one does not, and nothing will be fire immune with current changes (it balanced things a bit before, as fire was resisted the most).
Bring transmutation back please, it would hardly be OP.

2 "Preview" threads and… nothing has been changed. All the useless stuff are here.
Why did we have any of the previews (Lammania's one include) again ?

There were some changes, but in general, I feel like much of the feedback was ignored. I do not expect everything to go in, as some suggestions are not good, but there were some valid suggestions. And there was no response.

I'm liking the changes to the Season's Herald tree so far. Making Beguile no longer a SLA requirement is a win in my book, if it stays as it is right now and has a chance of not applying any stacks at all at higher tiers. Some of the stuff in the higher tiers is wonderful, including the Shining Through analogue at Tier 5 (Temp HP = 8x Wis.)

Talking of beguile, I am happy that it stays. But would it be really so much to make it either affect more than one target per second (so at least some would probably get a stack) or make one stack guaranteed on higher tiers? Right now it affects one target and it can get 0 stacks.

[Maelodic]

Tooltips on the innate abilities don't all seem to be updated - really interested in the DC numbers.

The stat point increases on the bear tree are only costing 1 AP, normally they are two for other trees. WAI?

[unbongwah]

If you have the Weapon Finesse feat, do you only get DEX to-hit with a Finesseable weapon equipped; or will it apply to any weapon? Currently on live it applies with any weapon equipped in animal form; but obviously with the revamp here, that may be changing...

[Ahwaric]

Several problems noticed so far:
1) Autumn Winds add +2 to dodge instead +3 implied by tooltip/changelog
2) Magical Beast does not add Heavy Armor Proficiency
3) Wellspring does not improve Shillelagh - tested with banhammer, gives just +0.5 W
4) Strength of Solstice tooltip says +1 to Evocation & transmutation (instead of conjuration). I do not mind Transmutation bonus (would be great), but I guess it is just tooltip.
EDIT:
5) Thick Hide natural armor bonus does not stack with bonus from items - intended? If so, it is quite strange, as usually enhancements do stack with items. And it becomes useless soon, as at lvl 10 you can craft an item with natural armor 6 - no need to use AP.
6) Wax and Wane does not work.

[SerPounce]

I tested it. Refer to my list of bugs/issues on the first page of the thread.

That's got to be a bug. I assume they meant to make them not work in "defensive fighting" for quests like sleeping dust, not to render it useless by one of the bears other primary abilities.

[LrdSlvrhnd]

If you have the Weapon Finesse feat, do you only get DEX to-hit with a Finesseable weapon equipped; or will it apply to any weapon? Currently on live it applies with any weapon equipped in animal form; but obviously with the revamp here, that may be changing...

My guess would be with the weapon changes that yeah, it'll require a finessable weapon. It's already been stated that the non-proficiency penalty will apply and that the Improved Crit will be based on the weapon. So despite no longer wielding a weapon, you're still very much wielding the weapon. I can't imagine that finessing with a bastard sword will work in form, either.

[Qhualor]

tonight I copied over my tempest ranger from Live to test Snare. he is a level 18 with multiple past lives and working on his first dwarf past life. what he normally wears at level 18 is what I used on Lama. this was very limited testing.

I went into Vale wilderness and tested on various mobs. it worked maybe half the time. had a 21 Strength DC with just ship buffs and no other buffs. most times mobs were freed within the 2 seconds.

went into elite LOD and did the same thing, except I used standard ranger spell buffs with the ship buffs. this time I recorded it. it worked maybe less than half the time. did manage to Snare a random Champion and the named dog that was also a Champion. again, most mobs were freed within 2 seconds.

I take it that Snare is not updated on this Lama build because it still costs 15 sp and 2 second strength saves. the tooltip even said so. I don't know if druids are able to boost the DC more than rangers, but I suppose I build my tempest ranger not much different than anyone else in heroics. surprising to see Snare work at all considering last time I tried using it on a level 30 character with every twist, feat and enhancement I could think of that could boost the DC a couple years ago didn't work at all in places like epic GH wilderness and Kings Forest. I'll test more another time, especially when I know the spell has been updated, and in different places and levels.

in case anyone is wondering why I am so hung up on Snare, its because for the first time in years a ranger spell is being updated. I'm jumping all over it. it would be nice to have something else to slot for a level 2 spell and not just barkskin.

also, how big is the Snare radius? it seems pretty small. in tight hallways like LOD mobs are no problem to run through it. in open areas like the wilderness or big rooms in quests, it can be difficult to guide mobs through the Snare. maybe in tough content or Reaper it might be smart to guide mobs through it, but if you know you can just beat down the mobs with little trouble than I would question even bothering to waste the 5 sp. and the white dot can be hard to see in a sea of mobs, AOE effects going on and blended into the background. a change of color or neon lights or something?

[PsychoBlonde]

My current list of issues/bugs on Lammania applying solely to Wildshapes:

1. Dethek Runestone is only applying +1W to items, while providing +2W if not holding a weapon.

Confirmed. I had the same problem.

4. Great Maul does not show up in your spell book, unless it is supposed to replace Maul.

It shows up on your first level spell list. Shares a cooldown with Maul.

7. 6 uses of rage is not enough at 1 minute duration. Please have it scale with constitution like barbarians.

This.

15. Not enough filigrees in the dojo to complete the Blood Feast set to test if it works with bear rage.

Yes there are, they're just split between lists 5 and 6 instead of all being on one list.

[PsychoBlonde]

Also, the heavy armor proficiency grant is working fine.

[edrein]

Confirmed. I had the same problem.



It shows up on your first level spell list. Shares a cooldown with Maul.



This.



Yes there are, they're just split between lists 5 and 6 instead of all being on one list.

Strange, guess I was too tired to notice Great Maul on that list.

I swear I checked every single page of the filigrees but again I was testing things with about 3 hours of sleep.

[PsychoBlonde]

Strange, guess I was too tired to notice Great Maul on that list.

I swear I checked every single page of the filigrees but again I was testing things with about 3 hours of sleep.

I tested it, it's not applying temp hp with bear rage.

[PsychoBlonde]

The Celestial Champion ability on Divine Crusader says "does not work in animal form" but it now works in animal form. The description needs adjustment.

[PsychoBlonde]

also, how big is the Snare radius? it seems pretty small. in tight hallways like LOD mobs are no problem to run through it.

It's a single-target effect, so it only hits one mob per casting. It does seem to be on the smallish side.

I hit a 31 dc with my bear druid and nothing was breaking that in level 18 quests.

It basically drops a little ball like a fire trap.

[SirValentine]

So...the multiple proposed nerfs to Druid DC casters are still in place.

Can we have more data on your tests that showed that Entangle was over-performing, like for the Monk nerfs? Was Entangle 30% better than Tentacles or Mass Hold?

Or is there some good reason to nerf something that isn't over-performing? If so, how about you tell us what it is?

[Qhualor]

It's a single-target effect, so it only hits one mob per casting. It does seem to be on the smallish side.

I hit a 31 dc with my bear druid and nothing was breaking that in level 18 quests.

It basically drops a little ball like a fire trap.

If it had the same radius as a symbol I would be fine with that. Otherwise, except maybe in special circumstances, I still don't see a good reason to slot the spell. When you encounter 5-10 mobs at a time typically in quests, a slow casting single target snare isn't going to be very useful with a small radius and mobs saving in the 6 second time. For rangers you aren't going to be taking any feats (not that there is really any space to do it anyways) and there really isn't any enhancements to boost the DC. Raising it to 6 seconds and lowering the sp cost just isn't attractive enough for me unless there can be some real changes. Ah well, maybe next ranger pass.

[Silverleafeon]

QUOTE


Winter Wolf Speed increased to 10% + 1% per druid level, max 30% at level 20 druid

Interesting...promotes druid levels


Druids should now have 3 pet revivals a rest instead of 1

Should be enough, will mostly reincarnate


8. Natural Fighting Feat

Natural Weapon Fighting revamped. (work in progress, will change as testing progresses)

You have grown accustomed to fighting with claws, paws, and jaws. While in a Druid animal form, such as Bear or Wolf, you receive +4 to melee power, physical resistance rating and a +1 bonus to all tactic DCs. \n\nIn bear form your glancing blow damage is increased by 10%.\n\nThis feat can be taken up to three times. This feat gives no benefit to Druids in elemental or none animal forms.

Looks pretty good, need math/live test runs by melee fans.

Obviously reducing to three feats resulted in less power, but three feats fits well with other melee build thematics.
Good to remove the Power Attack requirement.

Unclear whether +30% stacks with the default 20% from wielding a two handed weapon?
Perhaps it is 30% with any weapon, and an additional +20% if the weapon automatically produces the default 20% glancing blows?


Already gave feedback on the Bear/Wolf trees in the past, will let other finish that route.


SEASONS HERALD

CORES:


Overall, many plus improvements including:

Lowered Cooldowns on SLAs

Adding Acid Type spells

+1 EARTHQUAKE DC over live version {Strength of the Solstice is located in tier four} (all caps because Quake is King)

Better Capstone than live version imho as Evocation >> Transmutation

Emergency Guard via 8*Wis = 640ish temp hp which is enough to consider using Leg Green SP bonus instead of HP bonus possibly enabling much better spell point conservation.

Immunity Breaker for Cold/Fire spells

Auto Cast of Form Spell along with Auto Shift of Season when going into Fire/Water Forms.
This yields a much quicker restart after a death, since elemental wild shapes are lost upon dying.
It also allows situational awareness of the combat field with quick form changes.

Nice HP bonus for Pets that will be taken for the spell power if for no other reason.

Beguile no longer required for SLAs, but likely will be taken just for the +1 usp per action point spent.

Various Spells being improved or fixed for bugs including Produce Flame, Word of Balance, Creeping Cold, etc..

Avoiding the +4 Wis capstone debate that would ultimately fuel a heroic enhancement debate along the lines of the Exalted Angel > Magistar Epic Destiny debate. By the way, Magistar and Draconic do not have true Innates as "Arcane study III: Passive Bonus: +50 SP and +1 to warlock, wizard, sorcerer, bard and artificer caster levels if have any levels in the class." duplicated 5x does not make an innate bundle.


All in All, nice job Torc.
Not too powerful that we might fear a nerf, but certainly helpful.
Looking forward to see the bugs polished and these changes hitting live....

Hope to see you return for Earth and Air Forms along with a huge revamp of Metamagics and rebalancing of Epic Destinies (which should not stop at level 6 minus 1 xp)....