Strimtom's Vanguide - An Endgame guide to playing Fighter Vanguard

[Darius1680]

Shield Bash stuns in Vanguard now play their proper stun effects on targets.-How does this effect this build after u38?

[Qhualor]

I am not sure I understand this comment. Vanguard shield bashes don't miss often since this build puts you at +160 to hit, which is a whole lot. Shield rush has been fixed, it was fixed last patch although I don't use it since it's a huge dps loss to not take T5 of Kensai. I don't know what clickies are, but from vanguard you get an action boost, a stun, a shield smash, and an AOE shield cleave. Not sure how many keys you want on your keyboard but this character runs with 9 attacks.

I was actually talking about running up to a mob and bashing it with a shield. At first I thought it was the range of the shield, which makes some sense, but it's a weapon just like using a sword. After the improvements to 2WF, I now wonder if its related. It has been awhile since I played my Vanguard, so some things may have changed since.

Mine invests in Vanguard and the rest in SD. He's also a dwarf that uses TYWA, so points are limited until I work through racial past lives freeing up points. I end up with 3 plus MP boost. 4 now with Shield Rush fixed. I don't like keyboard bashing clickies like I do with my barb, but many of the enhancements in Vanguard are more damage or improvements basically to shield bashing. A couple more would be good and maybe eventually I can invest some into Kensei.

[Matuse]

Shield Bash stuns in Vanguard now play their proper stun effects on targets.-How does this effect this build after u38?

It doesn't. The change here is a graphical one where stunned creatures show the little stars of being stunned, where before they didn't.

None of the functionality has been changed.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Shield Bash stuns in Vanguard now play their proper stun effects on targets.-How does this effect this build after u38?

From what I'm gathering, it's just wording, the actual fixes were deployed last update.

As for this thread, Vanguard is awesome since last 2 updates.

A few things to consider,........

1) To really make Vanguard shine, you have to build for it. Don't multi-class it and expect it to perform at optimum, Unlike other trees, it is not forgiving at all.

2) DPS when building a dedicated Vanguard is never going to be what you min/maxers or uber build types want. It's designed to be part of a group. Even when I solo w/ mine, I have to bring hires to make up the shortcomings*. I can stand toe to toe w/ anything. I can run R5 solo, but why? I don't like reaper.

As for the *end game* it's a matter of interpretation. These builds can play an integral part of a group. They at one time were "needed" to tank. But the whole tanking tactic is tanked. (pun intended)

As for Unbongwah's comment about a nerf, DUDE. Are you for real? The DC's are too high? really? You might be a build specialist, but opinions are just that.

[Captain_Wizbang]

OUTSTANDING thread Strim. +1

[Ganak]

UMD gets to about 48 depending on gear/past lives. I had no past lives and was hitting 48 UMD.(

After the 11.5 umd from skill points, how do you get there? Trying to figure out if its worth trying to bump UMD on this build.

[JRadical]

I am fairly new to DDO I normally play in a group of 3 where I have TR'd only 1 time. I am currently starting a solo character and wanted to use this build (with a cleric with me at all times) just casually playing and I liked the idea of stunning everyone for years. I don't really know how to level the enhancements as I go and was wondering if you could give me an idea of a path for enhancements sort of like you did for your acid arrow build

[unbongwah]

As for Unbongwah's comment about a nerf, DUDE. Are you for real? The DC's are too high? really?

*sigh*

To be clear: it's not that I think that the DCs are too high, it's that (as Strimtom said) it seems like the shield stun from the capstone procs about half the time on shield bashes rather than 5%. Which on a build like this (which basically gets a free shield bash every second) means you're getting free shield stuns every couple of seconds rather than once per 20 seconds (on average). That is literally 10 times the proc rate as described. So either it's proccing too often or the description needs fixing (or both).

I.e., in-game performance does not match in-game description of Vanguard capstone; so either it's overperforming or the description is incorrect. I don't know which it is, but past experience has taught me to presume something will be nerfed eventually and I'm rarely disappointed. Nice things, can't have, etc.

[KaladorUK]

Am I missing it, or does the first gear set not have any fortification? You may as well add tendon slice to the five rings. You also haven't fixed the 32 - no tomes column.

[kanordog]

It isn't 5% to stun, it's like 50% chance to stun.

Great build, was going to try it with one of my alts but unfortunately they fixing it:

• Fixed an issue where Vanguard's Shield Champion was proc'ing 50% of the time. We have also increased the proc rate from its earlier 5% to 10%.

https://www.ddo.com/en/update-38-patch-1-release-notes

[unbongwah]

. . . past experience has taught me to presume something will be nerfed eventually and i'm rarely disappointed. Nice things, can't have, etc.

• fixed an issue where vanguard's shield champion was proc'ing 50% of the time. We have also increased the proc rate from its earlier 5% to 10%.

If only I could use my powers for good!

[Khurse]

If only I could use my powers for good!

nah, it was going to happen as soon as Cordo posted in the thread.
50% procs were a bit much, but the fact that apparently they think 10% will make this a "balanced" enhancement line again shows that they really don't get how melee combat in their own game works.

[Wayoff]

I was going to TR into this next life. With the Nerf coming is it still a great build?

[Khurse]

I was going to TR into this next life. With the Nerf coming is it still a great build?

No.
It can be decent, but with the way it worked before, you could jump into melee range in Reaper level whatever, and if you had the stats, you could count on stunning with 50% of your shield hits, which lets you survive.
At 10% , you will very likely die in high/med reaper content before you manage to land the stun.


The build was great because it A) Stunned things thar normally couldn't be stunned, and B) it did it on about half of it's shield hits.
Now it still does the first, but at 10% of teh time, you're going to be getting hit a lot more. And you've pretty much given up on defense to put the points into Vanguard and Kensai.

[shinsirhc]

This guide is updated for Ravenloft

While shield is equipped: +2 attack, +2 damage, +5% doublestrike, +1(W) to your shield, an additional +5% (total 20%) Combat Style bonus to Melee Attack Speed, and shield bash stuns 5% of the time DC (10 + 1/2 Character lvl + strength modifier + stun bonus)

The highlighted section is important. It isn't 5% to stun, it's like 50% chance to stun. As a result, you constantly stun enemies with your shield bashes, and shield charge becomes a secret direcharge. However, shield stuns affect all monsters (except for the wisps in fresh baked dreams) so you can stunlock enemies for days.

Nice you just nerf every vanguard build with that comment in u38.1. "Fixed an issue where Vanguard's Shield Champion was proc'ing 50% of the time. We have also increased the proc rate from its earlier 5% to 10%."

[kanordog]

If only I could use my powers for good!

Yes, I saw Your prediction after I posted the great news, unfortunately You were right.

Nice you just nerf every vanguard build with that comment in u38.1. "Fixed an issue where Vanguard's Shield Champion was proc'ing 50% of the time. We have also increased the proc rate from its earlier 5% to 10%."

Well, there were worse things around for years - some of them so bad that You can say Voldemort before You could say that world - and they were not fixed. The OP just wanted to share his experience to help players who like to run melees other than wrap monks (RIP stick builds).

[unbongwah]

nah, it was going to happen as soon as Cordo posted in the thread.

In hindsight, that really is the Kiss of Death, isn't it?

"Great build you got here! Be a shame if something...nerfed it."

[Niminae]

You want T5 kensai and core 5, because that is 40 melee power and a tonne of damage. Along with this, you need the attacks A Good Death for a sweet as hell execute, and Deadly Strike for the auto crit. Shattering strikes is a great 1 pointer, since it drops enemy fortification (great for shroud portals).
T5 Kensai is way better than T5 vanguard which is why you take it. However, the vanguard capstone is where the magic happens. It reads

While shield is equipped: +2 attack, +2 damage, +5% doublestrike, +1(W) to your shield, an additional +5% (total 20%) Combat Style bonus to Melee Attack Speed, and shield bash stuns 5% of the time DC (10 + 1/2 Character lvl + strength modifier + stun bonus)

The highlighted section is important. It isn't 5% to stun, it's like 50% chance to stun. As a result, you constantly stun enemies with your shield bashes, and shield charge becomes a secret direcharge. However, shield stuns affect all monsters (except for the wisps in fresh baked dreams) so you can stunlock enemies for days.

Fixed an issue where Vanguard's Shield Champion was proc'ing 50% of the time. We have also increased the proc rate from its earlier 5% to 10%.

nah, it was going to happen as soon as Cordo posted in the thread.
50% procs were a bit much, but the fact that apparently they think 10% will make this a "balanced" enhancement line again shows that they really don't get how melee combat in their own game works.

The devs seriously hate shields. When the Paladin nerfs came around shields were made off limits for Holy Sword. Because of the word 'sword,' I suppose? Or just because it rubs someone on the dev staff wrong that a shield can be a significant source of melee damage? And now this.

[Strimtom]

Updated for U38.1 changes.

Yes it's still good, just worse against stun immune monsters since you can't reliably stun lock. The damage is unchanged.

[Laurenthium]

Updated for U38.1 changes.

Yes it's still good, just worse against stun immune monsters since you can't reliably stun lock. The damage is unchanged.

Please help with the Kensei tree. If I use a khopesh in my mainhand then I have to put some enhancement points in the Kensei, starting from Kensei Focus. Noob question: which category? I ruled out the obvious ones like Kensei Focus Archery and Crossbows, so I remain with these:
- axes;
- druidic weapons;
- heavy blades;
- light blades;
- maces and clubs;
- martial arts;
- picks and hammers.
Neither have stated the khopesh...please help. Thank you...