Teach SSG a lesson

[Chai]

Disallowing people from cheating - fine.

Actively posting a step-by-step guide on how to cheat in order to entice people into cheating so that you can ban them - not fine.

I won't say it doesn't sound shady, but...
The victim playing here has gone straight to plaid.

[HungarianRhapsody]

I won't say it doesn't sound shady, but...
The victim playing here has gone straight to plaid.

Did you notice the part where I (REPEATEDLY) said that I didn't support exploiting and that I didn't approve of the exploiters' behavior and that I disapproved of both SSG's behavior AND the exploiters' behavior?

[Chai]

If I see you don't understand what I wrote, then I try to explain it again in different words. .

While there is lack of agreement with analogies which minimize the negative impact of exploiting while maximizing the negative impact of the company action taken, there is no lack of understanding here.

Did you notice the part where I (REPEATEDLY) said that I didn't support exploiting and that I didn't approve of the exploiters' behavior and that I disapproved of both SSG's behavior AND the exploiters' behavior?

Yup. I thought line dancing was an activity that happens mostly at Country Music establishments, but theres plenty of it going on right here.

[Kaboom2112]

Trying to read this thread made my head hurt.

Like so:

One side: "Virtue signal"

Other side: "I wasn't THAT bad."

That's pretty much it.

[bartharok]

So it's okay to be unethical and put out a honeytrap as long as you're bad at it?

Gotcha.

Whats the evidence for a honeytrap being put out? I assume there must be some, but im way too lazy to search the thread (or other threads) for it.

[Thar]

I have no sympathy for those that did the thing that shall not be mentioned to get x benefits that shall not be mentioned while others spent weeks/months to get the same legitimately. You do something you know is wrong and cry when you're caught. such a liberal not my fault trend...

SSG lives matter. they need to get paid and cheating hurts the game.

[Damian]

i just bought couple hundred worth of ddo points thanks ssg i support your game.

Dido!

[Kaboom2112]

SSG lives matter. they need to get paid and cheating hurts the game.

This is why the "wrist slap" can't be too hard that that hand can no longer reach it's wallet to buy more stuff.

Delete somebody's toon = player never spends money again.

Roll back the ill gotten gains = player more likely to spend as they did before.

[Renvar]

If done illegitimately, it's called an offense, otherwise, it's being smart. No item was actually taken from the store, so you can't call it stealing.

Note that it is possible to carry out the offense independent of the existence of the store, so it is very strange to call it stealing when there is a store, and something else when there isn't; it's consistent to use the same name in both cases.

So, if you can figure out how to siphon cable from your neighbor, that's OK. Their service isn't disrupted, the cable company isn't losing the neighbor's business, you are just foregoing purchasing their services.

But, you didn't do it in a store, so you can't call it stealing...

Sure. Keep telling yourself that and justifying and rationalizing the act. It's no better than saying "I was honeypotted" or "I only did it because the game sucks so bad" or "It's their own fault for having bugs". Nobody forced you to use the exploit. You knew it was wrong. You did it. You got caught. Own it. (You here is an exploiter. Not specificially Forzah. I have no idea if he exploited or not. )

[acemonkey]

Analogy time!

In this particular case, SSG went to a local bar (that bar will go unnamed since saying the name of that forum, I mean bar is also banworthy) and actively recruited people to come to their own poker game and cheat with a thorough explanation of HOW to cheat at that specific poker game.

...and then ran them out of the of the game and took their entire stake, not just the hand(s) they cheated at.


I'm not going to defend cheaters. I am going to repeatedly point out just how underhanded and unethical that gambit was for SSG to pull.

So of course you have some proof that this happened, right? Of course not. Stop defending cheaters, it was in every way their fault, and until someone links SSG to exploits with proof, your idea is just a crappy meme, similar to the idea that SSG caught up some innocents in the banwave.

[Renvar]

This is why the "wrist slap" can't be too hard that that hand can no longer reach it's wallet to buy more stuff.

Delete somebody's toon = player never spends money again.

Roll back the ill gotten gains = player more likely to spend as they did before.

The wrist slap wasn't working as a deterrent though.

Maybe their cost benefit analysis was:

If you wrist slap and 10% of player base exploits in the future costing you 10% of future revenues (hypothetical).

But, banning 1% of your player base, which costs you 2% of your future revenue, results in only 2% of your player base being willing to exploit in the future (out of fear of bannings), costing you 2% of future revenue.

You are only losing 4% to exploiting vs. 10%.

Sometimes you cut out the cancer to save the life.

[Renvar]

Whats the evidence for a honeytrap being put out? I assume there must be some, but im way too lazy to search the thread (or other threads) for it.

There is no such evidence of a honeypot trap. This is just a smokescreen by exploiters and exploiter sympathizers to try to justify the actions of the exploiters.

[Kaboom2112]

The wrist slap wasn't working as a deterrent though.

Maybe their cost benefit analysis was:

If you wrist slap and 10% of player base exploits in the future costing you 10% of future revenues (hypothetical).

But, banning 1% of your player base, which costs you 2% of your future revenue, results in only 2% of your player base being willing to exploit in the future (out of fear of bannings), costing you 2% of future revenue.

You are only losing 4% to exploiting vs. 10%.

Sometimes you cut out the cancer to save the life.

If your numbers are correct you might be right. But like anything randomly pulled from a hole I have more faith in a drink from Bill Cosby.

[scipiojedi]

Even if they did use entrapment, I'm all in favor of that method. I wish our law enforcement was allowed to use it to catch perpetrators but such is life in "civilized" society.
Good job crew!

[Chai]

This is why the "wrist slap" can't be too hard that that hand can no longer reach it's wallet to buy more stuff.

Delete somebody's toon = player never spends money again.

Roll back the ill gotten gains = player more likely to spend as they did before.

There are multiple iterations in DDO history where they tried the "wrist slap" strategy.

It didnt work.

I'm sure the semantics as to why it didnt work can be mulled over for the next 12 pages, but in the end rollbacks and scrubbing characters clean of ill gotten gains demonstrably failed as a deterrent.

[HungarianRhapsody]

Whats the evidence for a honeytrap being put out? I assume there must be some, but im way too lazy to search the thread (or other threads) for it.

I'll PM you since saying the name of that "other website" is verboten on the motherboards.

[HungarianRhapsody]

There is no such evidence of a honeypot trap. This is just a smokescreen by exploiters and exploiter sympathizers to try to justify the actions of the exploiters.

PM sent

[lronEnema]

I'll PM you since saying the name of that "other website" is verboten on the motherboards.

And because somebody wrote it on this other site, it makes it true?

Do you really believe everything that is written on the inter-web-net-page?

[HungarianRhapsody]

And because somebody wrote it on this other site, it makes it true?

Do you really believe everything that is written on the inter-web-net-page?

I don't believe that SSG put out an exploit honeypot because someone on the "other site" said they did. I believe that SSG put out an exploit honeypot because it's blatantly obvious that they did based on the timing and the fact that exploits are *rarely* shared in public on the "other site" and people ask for PMs instead.

It's certainly *possible* that someone happened to post public step by step instructions on how to do the specific exploit that they just started tracking a week earlier. That's pretty implausible, though.

[lronEnema]

I don't believe that SSG put out an exploit honeypot because someone on the "other site" said they did. I believe that SSG put out an exploit honeypot because it's blatantly obvious that they did based on the timing and the fact that exploits are *rarely* shared in public on the "other site" and people ask for PMs instead.

It's certainly *possible* that someone happened to post public step by step instructions on how to do the specific exploit that they just started tracking a week earlier. That's pretty implausible, though.

As with the vast majority of conspiracy theories, this fails the 'why the hell would they do that!' test ........on the simple basis of risk vs reward.