Renegade Mastermaker Early Preview v2

[Steelstar]

Is this going to require CCW potions? Which don't exist (or maybe exist in the store only).

It has no material component cost, but a relatively expensive Spell Point cost compared to other Admixtures.

[PsychoBlonde]

Is this going to require CCW potions? Which don't exist (or maybe exist in the store only).

Good question.

[mikarddo]

Cores:
Core 1: Each core ability in this tree grants you +10 Maximum Hit Points, +5 Positive Spell Power and +5 Repair Spell Power.
Core 2: (UPDATED): While in Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Adamantine Body, your equipped armor grants you a +4 Alchemical bonus to AC and immunity to Magic Missil
Core 3: Curative Admixture: CSW SLA. 4 Spell Points. 8 second cooldown.
Core 4: (UPDATED): +30 Repair Amplification. +50 Maximum Hit Points. +2 Max Dex Bonus while in Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Adamantine Body
Core 5: Radiant Forcefield SLA. 30 Spell Points. 3 minute cooldown.
Core 6: (UPDATED): +2 CON, +2 INT. +10 PRR, +10 MRR, +3 to Max Dex Bonus while in Medium Armor, Heavy Armor, or Adamantine Body. Active: Unbreakable Forcefield SLA: For 6 seconds, you take -95% damage from all sources (except Untyped damage). 3 minute cooldown.

Please consider changing the 2nd core so the +4 AC is only in med/hvy/ada armor, but the immunity to magic missiles is in any armor.
Wrt the 4th core. Are all of the effects restricted to med/hvy/ada armor or is it just the +2 Max dex bonus thats restricted?
Same question wrt the 6th core.

[LeoLionxxx]

Tier 2:

[LIST][*]Kinetic Discharge: (NEW): Active Melee Cleave Attack: On hit, +1/2/3[w] and 2d6 Force damage. This damage scales with 200% Melee Power. 10 second cooldown.


Tier 4:

• Kinetic Charge: (NEW): Passive: Any time you hit an opponent in Melee, you have a chance of gaining a stack of Kinetic Charge. Each stack grants a +1 Shield Bonus to AC for every 3 Artificer Levels you have. This stacks up to five times (for a potential total of +30). Stacks decrement by 1 every 15 seconds, and gaining a new stack resets the duration. Toggle: When this ability is toggled on, using Kinetic Discharge will clear all stacks of Kinetic Charge and slow (both movement and attack speed) all affected (non-boss) enemies by 10% per stack cleared for 10 seconds.

This is an interesting boost to melee artificers. +30 AC does sound like a good number, larger than what a lv 30 tower shield will normally give, thus making up for not wearing one. If it's felt this isn't powerful or "worthwhile" enough, perhaps throw some PRR in there as well.

Adding CC to the discharge effect sounds interesting. Could the effect be made to look similar to the explosion from arcane blast, centered on yourself?

Slow seems like a good choice, since it will work on virtually all enemies. I also really like that this is a toggle, allowing players to turn the CC effect on and off, depending whether they want to focus survivability for themselves, or for the group.

Potential issue: Players may feel they need to restrict their use of the cleave/discharge so they can get the full CC benefit. At the same time, there may be frustration over the Charge stacks being gained in a random fashion, making the ability "unreliable".

Some ideas, for alternate implementation:

• Remove 3 stacks (iff there are currently at least 3) and inflict 25% slow and lower PRR and/or MRR by X. This allows players to save the CC effect for when they need it, without eliminating their whole stack. I threw the PRR/MRR reduction in so that this does something against bosses; might be good to experiment with.
• Remove 1 stack and inflict a stack of slow on nearby enemies. The first stack reduces speed by 20%, and 10% for every additional stack, up to 4 stacks. Perhaps more useful for prolonged fights, maybe

[hit_fido]

Incredible..Instead of finding a workaround set of numbers you just changed it to something I and many people won't even take now? +5 sheltering in comparison seems like hardly a consolation prize. Not even a scaling effect. Man. This is what we get when people cry for a class to stay unexciting.

Sad trombone. Tier 4 enhancement that costs spell points, is active only 1 minute out of every 3, and offers less prr/mrr than the two tier 1 enhancements from enlightened spirit, which are permanently active. I guess it's supposed to be impressive that allies nearby get the buff too, but then it's really not even as good as the tier 2/3 enlightened spirit enhancements that are once again permanent ally buffs.

That's an absolutely awful tier 4.

[Hilltrot]

Player feedback was a factor in how we approached this ability, but at least as large a factor was internal playtesting showing that the tree was holding up very well across all difficulties on its own even without that ability. We're not even to Lamannia yet, still a good chance it could change.

I didn't want to say it, but the first one was bad IMO. I'm glad you got rid of it. I was just imagining parties of artificers timing the ability to keep that shield up. And every artificer being expected to have it. The second one, however, is no better. Replace it with an AoE attack? I don't know. I just know that I'm not likely to be spending AP on an activate ability which gives +5 MRR and PRR 1/3 of the time. Especially, when it will be done better by a Warlock of which there are plenty.

I guess some min/max players will see the difference between 100 and 105 PRR for 60 seconds, but most won't even know it happened.

Honestly, I think you're right that it is a powerful enough ability. It just won't feel or look like it to most players.

[DrawingGuy]

[*]Bolstering Construct: (NEW): 5 Spell Points. You create a drone set to disperse protective potions. Every 10 seconds for 60 seconds, you and nearby allies gain a +5 Determination bonus to PRR and MRR. 3 minute cooldown.

As many have already complained about, this ability went from brokenly OP to brokenly weak. How about make the buff last 60 seconds and stack with each pulse for a max of 6 stacks? 30 PRR/MRR would be worthwhile but not game breaking, and while it's true that 2 Arties could potentially rotate the buff, I see no problem with allowing that teamwork for something that is respectable but not overpowered. Obviously the duration of the buff could be played with - such as lasting 30s so that the buff would be 50% uptime instead of 66%... but by allowing it to stack pulses in some manner you can solve it from being too weak.

[Des0xyn]

Tend to agree with what the others have already mentioned about the tier 4s.

[*]Kinetic Charge: (NEW): Passive: Any time you hit an opponent in Melee, you have a chance of gaining a stack of Kinetic Charge. Each stack grants a +1 Shield Bonus to AC for every 3 Artificer Levels you have. This stacks up to five times (for a potential total of +30). Stacks decrement by 1 every 15 seconds, and gaining a new stack resets the duration. Toggle: When this ability is toggled on, using Kinetic Discharge will clear all stacks of Kinetic Charge and slow (both movement and attack speed) all affected (non-boss) enemies by 10% per stack cleared for 10 seconds.

This is an interesting mechanic. Although yeah, the all or nothing aspect is not as attractive as the times you would use the slow proc is when the mobs are going to overwhelm you in melee, and that is when you wouldn't want to lose your AC too. Also, I'm assuming the slow proc only works if the mobs hit in melee? As such, if the attack bugs out, or mobs suddenly move just out of range, the AC is lost for nothing. Kinetic discharge already has a 10 second cooldown too, so I guess the alternative is to forgo/not expect AC all the time, and just spam it every 10 seconds?

I feel an alternative way to implement it would be similar to how deparvity is used in tainted scholar. Abilities that use it have a fixed cost for it (ie activate for 7 deparvity). That could be worked in for kinetic charge too I guess, maybe using 5/6 stacks of kinetic charge for each slow attack (as compared to all stacks). That would allow you to still have some AC boost up while still actively using the slow mechanics.

[*]Embed Component: (UPDATED): Construct Essence or Warforged Required. +5/10/15 MRR and +2/4/6 Constitution. You can no longer use Evasion, Druid Wild Shape feats, or Primal Avatar's Tree form.

Would this +6 constitution be a competence/sacred/racial/feat bonus? Wondering what it would/would not stack with.

[*]Bolstering Construct: (NEW): 5 Spell Points. You create a drone set to disperse protective potions. Every 10 seconds for 60 seconds, you and nearby allies gain a +5 Determination bonus to PRR and MRR. 3 minute cooldown.[*]CON/INT

Agree with the rest that 1min uptime with 3 min cooldown is too much of a hassle for the +5 determination bonus. When would you actively click for it? Save it for only just before a boss fight?

A direct comparison would be the tier 2/3 enhancements from enlightened spirit (spiritual ward/bastion). That has a 100% uptime, is also +3 determination bonus to PRR/MRR, and although it costs 6ap total, it gives the user +10 PRR and +10MRR.

Bolstering construct is a tier 4, and probably only 2AP at best, so maybe +5 PRR / +5 MRR to the user and a stacking +5 PRR/ +5 MRR to allies around (maybe not determination bonus?), and let it have a 100% uptime, so we would cast at the beginning of quest/ after rest and forget. Feels more user friendly and usable in that sense.

[mikarddo]

I am having a hard time seeing using this tree on a ranged, light armor artificer with some rogue for evasion.
Maybe for the self-healing though getting to tier 4 (reconstruct) without much else to show for it is pretty expensive.
If the tree is not intented for such builds I guess its ok, but it seems lackluster. Maybe someone with more experience with artificers can point me to possible worthwhile uses for a range, light armor artificer.

[HastyPudding]

I am having a hard time seeing using this tree on a ranged, light armor artificer with some rogue for evasion.
Maybe for the self-healing though getting to tier 4 (reconstruct) without much else to show for it is pretty expensive.
If the tree is not intented for such builds I guess its ok, but it seems lackluster. Maybe someone with more experience with artificers can point me to possible worthwhile uses for a range, light armor artificer.

It's not really meant for 'light/evasion' artificers. It's okay for a few low-hanging boosts to survivability for ranged or spellcaster artificers, but it's meant more as a boost that melee artificers need and as a supportive/tanky build option.

[edrein]

I am having a hard time seeing using this tree on a ranged, light armor artificer with some rogue for evasion.
Maybe for the self-healing though getting to tier 4 (reconstruct) without much else to show for it is pretty expensive.
If the tree is not intented for such builds I guess its ok, but it seems lackluster. Maybe someone with more experience with artificers can point me to possible worthwhile uses for a range, light armor artificer.

Mostly the SLAs and actives are for those sort of builds. This tree is mostly to be a support platform and more importantly give melee battle engineers the defensive buffs they needed. AKA: Why everything is favoring medium and heavy armor. The devs expect that for those who are splashing will pick up goodies supporting that in other trees.

Essentially the devs rightfully believe that any pure or high-focused Artificer is going to run medium or heavy and are innately making a choice to forgo evasion tactics (as pure Artificers do not have access to evasion).

[Iriale]

Mostly the SLAs and actives are for those sort of builds. This tree is mostly to be a support platform and more importantly give melee battle engineers the defensive buffs they needed. AKA: Why everything is favoring medium and heavy armor. The devs expect that for those who are splashing will pick up goodies supporting that in other trees.

Essentially the devs rightfully believe that any pure or high-focused Artificer is going to run medium or heavy and are innately making a choice to forgo evasion tactics (as pure Artificers do not have access to evasion).

pure artis have access to evasion through the Shadowdancer ED.

What the devs forget is that trapping is an important and fundamental role for this class, and for it evasion is very desirable. Artificers should not be tanks; it is not a class designed for it. But they should be good trappers.

More support for light armor and even an evasion working only against traps would have been better than many of the proposed changes. I understand to give more resistance to melee artificers, but designers should not confuse an archetype of the class with the standard expected of the class. It is much more common for a group to expect from an artificer trapping skills than a superlative ability in melee.

In conclusion: support for melees artificers, great. But that designers do not expect medium or heavy armor to become the standard of the class.

[Hephaestas]

pure artis have access to evasion through the Shadowdancer ED.

What the devs forget is that trapping is an important and fundamental role for this class, and for it evasion is very desirable. Artificers should not be tanks; it is not a class designed for it. But they should be good trappers.

More support for light armor and even an evasion working only against traps would have been better than many of the proposed changes. I understand to give more resistance to melee artificers, but designers should not confuse an archetype of the class with the standard expected of the class. It is much more common for a group to expect from an artificer trapping skills than a superlative ability in melee.

In conclusion: support for melees artificers, great. But that designers do not expect medium or heavy armor to become the standard of the class.

Ugh, see, Ok a little History or perspective needs to be considered here now:

This is the problem I have with "DDO" Arties when you compare them back to their origin. Traditionally, Artificers are basically wizards who chose to channel their magic into items, and are therefore VERY into their items and defenses items can give them while bolstering their defenses with Infusions and Alchemical means. DDO Artificers use weird things called "Rune Arms" which are solely a DDO creation, and was only made because of the I guess inability or lack of a desire to create a 'real' 'Thunder Cannon' or 'Alchemist satchel.'

The PROBLEM IS is that in DDO, you can't acquire 'trapping' skills any other way than rogue or artificer, and since the devs back when Artificers were introduced gave Artificers (and understandably so) Trapping skills, they couldn't give them evasion - so what did the populace do? They splashed rogue, or even monk, or heck even ranger perhaps. Players build their pure Artificers as light armor users and by epics hung out in Shadow Dancer.

Now, i LOVEE playing a light armor evasion Artificer - its wayyy more fun than a point-and-shoot rogue, but unfortunately there just really isn't any classic support for Light Armor Artificers and so the dev's hands are tied in that sense. Obviously we can play our characters however we want and that's fine. I agree that Artificers who choose to wear Light should get *just a tad more, even if its less than heavy armor counterparts* - but we're in a real bind now because Artificers in DDO do NOT really do the "infusion" thing like in P&P, they do NOT have the choice to change their homunculi to anything other than an Iron Defender, they are very pidgeonholed for a class that is meant to dabble in a little bit of everything. Artificers classically don't do the "evasive" type, they do the "lemme pop this brew and gain resistance to X and don my heavy armor of fireproofing while casting Shield of Faith on myself" tough, armor champion type and it's gonna be as hard for me to change how I play this class in DDO as anyone else if I want to make the most of this new tree.

*shrug* It's just an unintentional consequence of having a class available that was incomplete from the start, for almost 7 years... :/

EDIT: I see I got my editions a bit muddled. The Alchemist Satchel and Thunder Cannon coming from 5e (heh, just played a thunder cannon Arty fairly recently). That said, my point still stands that DDO Artificers are a strange amalgamation class, since - and I failed to mention this in the original posting, Artificers really are enchanters - they are the REASON eberron has cool magic whiz. I wish our DDO Artys would get a bit of that original 3.5 inspiration and I could have my main make items - even if it was just like... temporary. Alas.

[Iriale]

Ugh, see, Ok a little History or perspective needs to be considered here now:

This is the problem I have with "DDO" Arties when you compare them back to their origin. Traditionally, Artificers are basically wizards who chose to channel their magic into items, and are therefore VERY into their items and defenses items can give them while bolstering their defenses with Infusions and Alchemical means. DDO Artificers use weird things called "Rune Arms" which are solely a DDO creation, and was only made because of the I guess inability or lack of a desire to create a 'real' 'Thunder Cannon' or 'Alchemist satchel.'

The PROBLEM IS is that in DDO, you can't acquire 'trapping' skills any other way than rogue or artificer, and since the devs back when Artificers were introduced gave Artificers (and understandably so) Trapping skills, they couldn't give them evasion - so what did the populace do? They splashed rogue, or even monk, or heck even ranger perhaps. Players build their pure Artificers as light armor users and by epics hung out in Shadow Dancer.

Now, i LOVEE playing a light armor evasion Artificer - its wayyy more fun than a point-and-shoot rogue, but unfortunately there just really isn't any classic support for Light Armor Artificers and so the dev's hands are tied in that sense. Obviously we can play our characters however we want and that's fine. I agree that Artificers who choose to wear Light should get *just a tad more, even if its less than heavy armor counterparts* - but we're in a real bind now because Artificers in DDO do NOT really do the "infusion" thing like in P&P, they do NOT have the choice to change their homunculi to anything other than an Iron Defender, they are very pidgeonholed for a class that is meant to dabble in a little bit of everything. Artificers classically don't do the "evasive" type, they do the "lemme pop this brew and gain resistance to X and don my heavy armor of fireproofing while casting Shield of Faith on myself" tough, armor champion type and it's gonna be as hard for me to change how I play this class in DDO as anyone else if I want to make the most of this new tree.

*shrug* It's just an unintentional consequence of having a class available that was incomplete from the start, for almost 7 years... :/

Well, in D&D artificers also have trapping skills and they can replace a rogue in this role. The difference is that in D&D evasion is much less necessary for a trapper than in DDO, and when is necessary it can be replaced by magic that gives a reduction in damage or better mobility (as levitate/fly magic). In DDO, many control traps are in a situation that favors trappers with evasion and the magic usually doesn't make up the lack of evasion.

[Hephaestas]

Well, in D&D artificers also have trapping skills and they can replace a rogue in this role. The difference is that in D&D evasion is much less necessary for a trapper than in DDO, and when is necessary it can be replaced by magic that gives a reduction in damage or better mobility (as levitate/fly magic). In DDO, many control traps are in a situation that favors trappers with evasion and the magic usually doesn't make up the lack of evasion.

Yeah... was gonna mention this... too true, too true.

[edrein]

pure artis have access to evasion through the Shadowdancer ED.

What the devs forget is that trapping is an important and fundamental role for this class, and for it evasion is very desirable. Artificers should not be tanks; it is not a class designed for it. But they should be good trappers.

More support for light armor and even an evasion working only against traps would have been better than many of the proposed changes. I understand to give more resistance to melee artificers, but designers should not confuse an archetype of the class with the standard expected of the class. It is much more common for a group to expect from an artificer trapping skills than a superlative ability in melee.

In conclusion: support for melees artificers, great. But that designers do not expect medium or heavy armor to become the standard of the class.

Artificers are more often than not melee based in tabletop. (When they aren't actually casting spells.) The devs have even admitted on livestream that the crossbow use was really a DDO invention.

[hit_fido]

You could make an argument that artificers could have a limited form of evasion available that only applies to trap damage - based on a renegade mastermaker's exceptional understanding of complicated/magical contraptions. It isn't speed and quickness that matters, it's understanding the nature of the trap device and being able to plan for mitigating the damage. That would have been a cool and exciting tier 5 in this tree. I can also see reasonable arguments against it.

That tier 4 should have just been tweaked instead of blown out. Or I would have liked to see something based on a supercharged ablative armor SLA. That's dispellable unlike temp hp. The warding construct could have applied an ablative armor effect either slower for longer (like 5 x artificer level of ablative armor every 20 seconds for two minutes) or fast and short (5 x level every 2 seconds for 10 seconds).

Some of the restrictions on medium/heavy armor might have been less bothersome and more thematic if the restriction was like druid - you have to be wearing some kind of metal (not leather, not wood) for them to work. That makes thematic sense to me rather than arbitrary exclusion of light armor. There's also too many schizo enhancements. Tier 1 Supporting Construction requires medium or heavy armor and it's only for a little prr. But tier 3 Reinforced Armor has no such restriction to medium/heavy and offers up to a 50% bonus to AC? What is the logic here for when medium/heavy is or isn't required?

Tier 3 warding construct is still absurdly weak. Why are you limiting abilities that cost spell points to 1 minute out of 3 when they don't offer any more benefit than comparable tier enhancements for other classes that are permanent and cost no spell points? The cooldown is silly for such a marginal benefit.

Kinetic Charge seems like an exciting and fun enhancement. From the description it's basically a cleaving no-fail 50% slow spell every 10 seconds. That seems worthy of a tier 4 enhancement.

[Hephaestas]

That tier 4 should have just been tweaked instead of blown out. Or I would have liked to see something based on a supercharged ablative armor SLA. That's dispellable unlike temp hp. The warding construct could have applied an ablative armor effect either slower for longer (like 5 x artificer level of ablative armor every 20 seconds for two minutes) or fast and short (5 x level every 2 seconds for 10 seconds).

That's a very interesting and neat idea. I like that. Like a Ablative Admixture that applies to everyone around them - it isn't temp HP like you said, it could be refreshed less often, makes thematic sense. +1

[zehnvhex]

Honestly, I feel that they're trying too hard to make Renegade Mastermaker into a healer arch-type when that is not at all what Renegade Mastermaker is about. RM is all about becomming this awesome steampunk cyborg.

The current state of healing in DDO is such that we already don't need the three healing classes we've got so why are they trying so hard to create a fourth when the gameplay doesn't support it?

I feel this is a big swing and a miss by Steel and they should really go back to the drawing board on it. I look at this tree and it's like 50% reconstruct SLA's and abilities trying to make cure spells not suck. All of that could have been boiled down to maybe 2 enhancements instead of the what...10 it currently consumes?

That would have left far more room for awesome cyborg abilities like:

- "Adaptive Reflexes" 3/5/7 shot action boost that grants improved evasion for 10 seconds.

- "Focusing Sights" grants ghost touch and true seeing, also auto-detects traps in range if spot check is made. Lasts 15 minutes, 100sp cost.

- "Engage Battlefist" Slams ground, stunning nearby enemies and grants +8 alchemical bonus to melee damage for 2 minutes. 90 second cooldown. Can be upgraded to "Engage Superior Battlefist" which lasts for 2 minutes and has the bonus of all of the artificer infusions (DR bypass, deadly weapons, etc...)

- "Hyper Agility" Raises jump cap by 10. Grants +3 reflex saves vs. traps. Grants immunity to slippery surfaces.

etc...

Things like that.

An enhancement that lets me cast repair spells on other people is extremely boring and lame considering that at level cap we're sporting like 200+ heal amp. I mean, "Summon curative admixture components." Seriously?

Your Christmas parties must be awesome. "Oh man, paper bags from the grocery store and instructions on how to make book covers from grocery bags. How rad!"

You can do better Steel. Please. Do better. Don't screw up steampunk cyborgs.

[Silverleafeon]

It has no material component cost, but a relatively expensive Spell Point cost compared to other Admixtures.

Would be nice (although going against D&D lore on potion creations) to have Cure Critical Wounds potions...


Still would like to see Converter improved, although I can understand that it probably considered too powerful to be able to convert the whole party...