Feedback on Pale Master build

[Vincentthegerman001]

Necrolord
Wizard 20
Chaotic Neutral Drow


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 10. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 14. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 20. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . 10. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . 28: INT

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Repair. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 2. . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 11
Search. . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Balance . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
Jump. . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
UMD . . . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .28. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9


Feats

.1. . . . : Augment Summoning
.1 Wizard : Extend Spell
.3. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.5 Wizard : Maximize Spell
.6. . . . : Spell Focus: Necromancy
.9. . . . : Spell Penetration
10 Wizard : Spell Focus: Enchantment
12. . . . : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
15. . . . : Greater Spell Penetration
15 Wizard : Heighten Spell
18. . . . : Eschew Materials
20 Wizard : Spell Focus: Evocation
21 Epic . : Epic Spell Penetration
24 Epic . : Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Fire
27 Epic . : Arcane Insight
28 Destiny: Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft
29 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Negative
30 Epic . : Improved Augment Summoning
30 Legend : Scion of: Shadowfell


Spells

1. Master's Touch, Jump, Nightshield, Hypnotism, Sonic Blast
2. Web, Knock, Blur, Scorching Ray, Blindness
3. Haste, Magic Circle Against Evil, Displacement, Deep Slumber, Rage
4. Wall of Fire, Death Aura, Negative Energy Burst, Dimension Door, Bestow Curse
5. Dominate Person, Teleport, Mind Fog, Niac's Biting Cold, Break Enchantment
6. Greater Heroism, Undeath to Death, Mass Suggestion, Circle of Death, Necrotic Ray
7. Control Undead, Greater Teleport, Mass Hold Person, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Finger of Death
8. Mass Repair Critical Damage, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Trap the Soul, Symbol of Death, Black Dragon Bolt
9. Dominate Monster, Energy Drain, Mass Hold Monster, Power Word: Kill, Wail of the Banshee

Enhancements (80 AP)

Pale Master (41 AP)

• Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form, Lich Form, Master of Death
  1. Deathless Vigor III, Skeletal Knight III, Negative Energy Conduit III
  2. Corpsecrafter III, Bone Armor III
  3. Eternal Servitude III, Intelligence
  4. Dark Furor III, Intelligence
  5. Necromantic Focus, Improved Shrouding

Archmage (32 AP)

• Chill Touch, Command Undead, Halt Undead, Enervation
  1. Energy of the Scholar III
  2. Efficient Maximize III
  3. Spell Penetration III, Intelligence
  4. Efficient Heighten II, School Mastery: Necromancy, Intelligence

Drow (6 AP)

• Spell Resistance, Intelligence, Spell Resistance II, Intelligence

Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (1 AP)

• Eldritch Strike

Destiny (24 AP)

Magister

1. Impregnable Mind III, Intelligence
2. School Specialist: Necromancy III
3. Piercing Spellcraft III, School Augmentation III
4. Call Kindred Being, School Familiarity III
5. Grand Summoner, School Master III
6. Arcane Adept

I'll be honest: I've not once hit past level ten. I take extended breaks before being lured back. I have no past lives or tomes. I don't like the thought of multiclassing. I haven't found any fault in the Skeletal Knight (summons like Celestial Dog or Fiendish Scorpion drop fast though, but again, haven't gotten past L10.)

I've done a decent share of research. I've probably spent more time hunting through the forums than actually playing the game. I'd like to say I know what I'm doing. Thing is, I don't actually know what I'm doing. I could go on and just play it until I hit the possible gimp-wall - problem being that I am paralyzed by the fear of whether or not I might hit it with this build.

I wanted a sort of tri-mix of powerful Necromancy, with a secondary focus on enchantment, and a decent number of summoned minions at my beck and call. Hence the name, Necro 'Lord'.

So I know there're people running around on these forums - BigErky, Unbongwha, haven't 100% memorized the names - who happen to know what they are doing (unlike me). So I could use some pointers.

-I've heard that there are issues with the Drow Spell resistance. I like the Int from the Drow racial tree - especially since I personally find a lot more appealing stuff in the Magister tree than its Int nodes. (again, this is all from a planner.)
-I've done some forays before deciding to consolidate my 'oh this is what I've learned this time', hence why I took Eldritch Strike. I've taken to the habit of running a two-hander or two one-handers if I find some good ones with Master's Touch, and figured the +1[W] Cleave would come in handy this time around.
-I'm actually juggling between whether I should put the 8 in Strength, or Wisdom. If I put it in Wis, I don't have to worry about dealing with a negative modifier to melee weapon rolls - yay for early game Master's Touching. With wisdom I would think I'd have to worry less about Will Saves - but I tend to have a very 'wait and let the Skeleton grab aggro' play style if I solo a quest, so would I have to worry too terribly much about getting through-the-roof will-saves with just base wisdom supporting whatever items give me?
-Again, I don't have any past lives - and once I hit 20 or 30, I'm afraid I'll fall into that lul of 'I don't want to go back to having to do it all over again' (*Is a quest completionist*) - so past lives, just how much of a difference *do* they make? Meaning, if I were to step into a higher level adventure, how wide of a gap would there be between someone who optimizes their build with past lives (and probably changes to mine that I wouldn't find appealing)?
-As you likely see I haven't hit a single spell critical node in the enhancements. I don't know enough about Spell Critical, nor can I find any decent explanation on the wiki or the forums past 'adds % chance for spells to critically hit'...That's great and all, but these tiny little percentiles...I've heard people say that getting a high enough ___ lore weapon would give you all the crit you'd need anyways. Anyone care to sway me one way or the other?
-Regarding feats: Someone once told me they felt Necromancy Focus was 'wasted' at level 6. I mean...Is it? I've always had this thought train of 'as long as I get it sometime'. Otherwise, at what levels *would* it be a good idea to take Necro/Greater Necro focus?
-I've taken Epic Spell Power: Fire as one of my epic feats...Can anyone tell me if that's a good idea, an 'ok' idea, or 'what the f*ck' idea? I couldn't really think of anything else appealing to put there, and people keep talking about how godly Wall of Fire is, so I assumed it wouldn't be a total f*ck-up decision.
-Again, feel the same way ('well, what else would really be a decent choice?') about Spell Focus: Evocation and Skill Focus: Spellcraft in those epic feat slots. Recently read something negative about Arcane Insight as well. I personally assumed the +6 DCs would be great, with how DC based a lot of the really powerful spells are.
-I pretty much expect super-uber-min-maxers to just fume and grit their teeth about the lack of Int nodes taken in the Magister tree. Truth be told, I know a lot of Wizards run Shiradi, or Grandmaster, or Draconic Incantation...Me, well...I'm just too much of a 'keep it classic' nostalgiac. I like the idea of the Magister tree. The 'Archmage' from 3.5 so to speak. As for why I didn't take all these Int nodes, I will admit I have a serious problem with myself. If I am given the choice between a flat stat-boost, and 'button that performs a very interesting and wizard-ish ability'...well, there's almost no contest if I'm left to choose by myself.
-I've been told Insightful Reflexes is wasted taken early. After having run Waterworks twice, and having gotten through the poison-spout tunnel with literally no damage taken...I'm thinking it's ok where it is...anyone
-Before anyone asks, no I am not interested in Reaper Mode. At all.

[unbongwah]

-I've heard that there are issues with the Drow Spell resistance.

Drow SR should now be an inherent bonus (+6-12) which stacks with regular SR gear, making it useful finally - in theory. In practice, I'm not sure it's WAI. But as a Pale Master, it doesn't matter that much anyway, because undead forms render you immune to most (all?) spells with Spell Pen checks anyway.

-I've done some forays before deciding to consolidate my 'oh this is what I've learned this time', hence why I took Eldritch Strike. I've taken to the habit of running a two-hander or two one-handers if I find some good ones with Master's Touch, and figured the +1[W] Cleave would come in handy this time around.

Do you have Harper? If so you could invest into Strategic Combat and just melee for the first few levels until you have access to better spells. This also reduces the need for STR since you'd be using INT as your melee stat.

-Regarding feats: Someone once told me they felt Necromancy Focus was 'wasted' at level 6. I mean...Is it? I've always had this thought train of 'as long as I get it sometime'. Otherwise, at what levels *would* it be a good idea to take Necro/Greater Necro focus?

The first Spell Focus feat is necessary to unlock the DC bonuses in Magister. The Gtr/Epic Spell Focuses are nice but not essential. As is often the case in DDO and DC-based abilities, so much depends on gear, past lives, what quest difficulty you're running, etc. that it's hard to give blanket advice which covers all cases. I.e., a build which is good enough for Normal/Hard content might not cut it in Elite/Reaper. Likewise exactly when you should invest in e.g. Spell Focus feats instead other metamagics varies.

At a glance, I would drop Eschew Materials and a couple of the extra Spell Focus feats to add Quicken (must-have for any caster IMO), Empower, and a couple of the epic caster feats like Master of the Dead.

-Before anyone asks, no I am not interested in Reaper Mode. At all.

Well, that's good, because usually my first piece of advice for first-life builds is, "Don't worry about Reaper, just focus on learning your class and having fun." I'm pretty sure we're still allowed to play DDO just for "fun."

[Vincentthegerman001]

First of all, thank you for replying - I've been waiting closely for replies since posting this thread.

I do have the Harper tree, but I've avoided it so far. As far as melee-capability goes, I treat it as 'the lowest common denominator of backup' once all other backups to flinging spells are exhausted.

Regarding dropping some of the feats to take Quicken and Master of the Dead, I hadn't even considered those
and have taken some time to mull over in the planner.

I removed Spell Focus: Evocation and Eschew Materials, and placed Quicken Spell into the Level 18 slot. I actually haven't run as of my forays into a lot of spells with aggravatingly long cast times - the one that comes to memory right away is Otto's Resistible Dance. When I started doing Norm/Hard/Elite waterworks, I played around with it a little bit - but ended up not really finding it to my liking. Are there an awful lot of 'important' spells out there that have long cast times? If, assuming I didn't take quicken, how much does that affect performance (assuming there is also a Skeletal Knight, or a hireling, to help manage aggro when I initially enter a room)?

As for the level 20 feat slot, I am in fact conflicted between Empower and Eschew Materials. Saving coin, at the cost for two extra spell points sounds like a decent tradeoff to me on paper. I remember vaguely (meaning, I cannot quote the player or thread where this came from, unfortunately) that Maximize was a better choice than Empower, regarding Extra SP cost to Spell Power ratio. Is there any substance to that, or did I merely read fluff from before some change to that was implemented?

You also said there are other Epic Caster feats I might wish to look at. To tell the truth I can't really tell which ones. The majority of Epic Level feats I'm conflicted about (Epic Spell Power: Fire; Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft) are marked as 'Destiny' in the planner, and the other Epic Feats I've set in...Again, 'sounds good to me in theory' (Epic Spell Pen, Arcane Insight sounded really nice with how DC based a lot of Necromancy is, Improved Augment Summons to further buff my minions...)

Also...Now that I'm looking at the planner, part of me wants to swap out Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft for Hellball. Is it any good? Or should I stick with what's already there?

Finally, if Quicken is truly essential - would you suggest I cut out something else - such as the Drow enhancements (as you stated the extra SR is negated by Shrouds) to claim Efficient Metamagic: Quicken from PM?

-Edit: I've actually gone and did some playing in the planner; regarding the last point on the above, assuming Drow SR and +2 Int were removed; would you suggest investing the 6 points I've left in Efficient Quicken, or Agent of Good+Strategic Combat+(insert something that uses the last 3 points)?

[Sunnie]

Quicken is nice for shortening the animation time for some spells, but the most important thing about it is that it makes your spells uninterrubtable (unless you get tripped/stunned/held/killed pretty much, and chances of that happening are lower since you're casting faster). I wouldn't use it on all spells, that will draink your SP quite quickly, but quickening your main CC spells can be invaluable if a troll or ogre is about to bash your face in and you can just make it stop. Once it has stopped you can kill it at your leisure. What I usually do is to take Empower and Maximise first and apply them to any SLAs I gain from enhancements since it's free, then Quicken as my third feat.

[Vincentthegerman001]

Great. Well, in that case, Quicken Spell has earned its spot in my feat selection.

Still, I've heard both above replies mention using both Maximize AND Empower. Again, I just remember this archaic mention *somewhere* to only take Maximize. Would anyone care to enlighten me a bit more on this? I'm not a fan of the idea, but if its really a 'better long-term choice' I can swap out Eschew Materials for Empower spell.

Some other things I could use some help thinking about before I actually have the confidence to try this out in-game:

-Firstly, is removing the Spell Resist and +2 Int from Drow justified to free up 6 extra APs? If so, should I use those 6 APs on:
-Efficient Metamagic: Quicken 3/3
or
-Cloak of Night 3/3, Agent of Good I, Strategic Combat

-Spell critical. How game-breaking or overarchingly important is it? Would I get enough to 'get by' trying to complete quests normal/hard/elite by just using a ___ lore weapon as suggested?
-Finally...Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft vs Hellball, still undecided on that.

[Vincentthegerman001]

I decided to mull about a bit in the planner, and with some researching on the forums, and decided to create a separate saved file (Aptly named 'Necrolord 2.0') where I substituted a Gnome instead of a Drow elf, which I was spurred to after toying with the idea of not taking any Drow racial nodes.

The only real difference I found was that I could start with 16 in Constitution as opposed to 14 - more Health and higher Fortitude saves - but conversely only had 6 Strength. This made it almost a mandatory decision to take Cloak of Night + Agent of Good I + Strategic Combat for the Int-to-Hit...But now I've grown somewhat conflicted. I've heard people praise the Color Spray SLA from the Gnome Racial tree with an almost religious reverence, but with not a single PL or RPL to speak of, I just don't have any AP to spend in the Racial tree whatsoever. Should I just stick with the above, then? Should I attempt to create a 'Necrolord 2.5' using the Drow instead? How mandatory *is* taking the SLA on a Gnome character, in the actual gameplay?

In other news I'm thankful for all the responses. I reworked both 1.0 and 2.0 to drop Eschew Materials and Spell Focus: Enchantment to replace them with Quicken Spell and Empower Spell (I was at first uncertain about taking the latter; then I learned I could apply both to SLAs without added spell point costs. I don't use a whole lot of SLAs in either build, however, so this is kind of still up in the air.). After some more research I eventually made the decision to keep Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy instead of taking Master of the Dead. I searched around a bit on the forums, and the only posts I found that discussed MotD claimed it actually DECREASED the damage/healing ticks of Death Aura (I do not really find myself using Chill Touch or Negative Energy Burst as much; I've heard that the latter is looked on as sort of 'emergency healing' by the Pale Master crowd.) I moved Epic Spell Power: Negative to the 26 slot, and replaced Epic Spell Power: Fire with Arcane Pulse; again, searching for topics about it on the forums yielded seemingly positive results. I am still a tad undecided on the Hellball vs Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft - can anyone speak in favor for either?

Regarding the Destiny: Magister, I have hit one final sort of 'decision snag' - how powerful is Arcane Adept - a 10% reduction to universal SP costs - to simply filling the last 2 points available with an Int node?

[Vincentthegerman001]

So I haven't gotten any further feedback in a few days. That's not encouraging.

So I'm just going to post the 2.5 version of the build here for reference/nitpicking

Necrolord 2.5 (Drow)
Wizard 20
True Neutral Drow


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .4: INT
Dexterity . . . 10. . . .8: INT
Constitution. . 14. . . 12: INT
Intelligence. . 20. . . 16: INT
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . 20: INT
Charisma. . . . 10. . . 24: INT
. . . . . . . . . . . . 28: INT

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Repair. . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spellcr . 4. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
Search. . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
Balance . 1. 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 .11
Jump. . . 2. . . . . . . . . . ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 11
UMD . . . 2. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 1. . .1 . . 11
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .28. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 8. 9. 9. 9. 9. 9


Feats

.1. . . . : Augment Summoning
.1 Wizard : Extend Spell
.3. . . . : Insightful Reflexes
.5 Wizard : Maximize Spell
.6. . . . : Spell Focus: Necromancy
.9. . . . : Quicken Spell
10 Wizard : Mental Toughness
12. . . . : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
15. . . . : Spell Penetration
15 Wizard : Heighten Spell
18. . . . : Greater Spell Penetration
20 Wizard : Improved Mental Toughness
21 Epic . : Epic Spell Penetration
24 Epic . : Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Negative
27 Epic . : Arcane Insight
28 Destiny: Hellball
29 Destiny: Arcane Pulse
30 Epic . : Improved Augment Summoning
30 Legend : Scion of: Shadowfell


Spells

1. Master's Touch, Nightshield, Sonic Blast, Jump, Disrupt Undead
2. Web, Blur, Knock, Blindness, Spawn Screen
3. Haste, Magic Circle Against Evil, Rage, Sleet Storm, Deep Slumber
4. Death Aura, Wall of Fire, Ice Storm, Fear, Dimension Door
5. Dominate Person, Niac's Biting Cold, Eladar's Electric Surge, Cloudkill, Break Enchantment
6. Circle of Death, Greater Heroism, Necrotic Ray, Greater Dispel Magic, Acid Fog
7. Banishment, Finger of Death, Mass Hold Person, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Delayed Blast Fireball
8. Black Dragon Bolt, Otto's Irresistible Dance, Symbol of Death, Incendiary Cloud, Trap the Soul
9. Dominate Monster, Mass Hold Monster, Power Word: Kill, Wail of the Banshee, Energy Drain

Enhancements (80 AP)

Pale Master (44 AP)

• Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form, Lich Form, Master of Death
  1. Deathless Vigor III, Skeletal Knight III, Negative Energy Conduit III
  2. Corpsecrafter III, Bone Armor III
  3. Cloak of Night III, Eternal Servitude III, Intelligence
  4. Dark Furor III, Intelligence
  5. Necromantic Focus, Improved Shrouding

Archmage (32 AP)

• Chill Touch, Command Undead, Halt Undead, Enervation
  1. Energy of the Scholar III
  2. Efficient Maximize III
  3. Spell Penetration III, Intelligence
  4. Efficient Heighten II, School Mastery: Necromancy, Intelligence

Harper Agent (3 AP)

• Agent of Good I
  1. Strategic Combat

Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (1 AP)

• Eldritch Strike

Destiny (24 AP)

Magister

1. Impregnable Mind III, Intelligence
2. School Specialist: Necromancy III, Intelligence
3. Piercing Spellcraft III, School Augmentation III
4. Call Kindred Being, School Familiarity III
5. Grand Summoner, School Master III

[unbongwah]

TBH a lot of the questions you're asking are covered in our major wizard / PM threads. So there's not much point in retreading familiar ground.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...e-Master-Guide
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Wizard-Rogue)
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...wizard-2-rogue

Info about endgame gear etc. might need updating, but the basics of playing a PM haven't really changed since U19.