Early Look: Artificer Changes & Renegade Mastermaker

[hit_fido]

We'll keep working on it. That might entail testing how the numbers play out across difficulties; that might entail scrapping it outright and putting something less useful but less contentious in its place. Would be interested to know what people want to see there.

I think the negative feedback on this is an over reaction. But whatever.

Keep the "good for a group" aspect. Keep the defensive aspect. Thematically temp hp makes sense as it goes along with radiant forcefield and ablative armor. But it could just as easily be a group/aura effect that works like a radiant forcefield, and give everyone a 15% damage reduction effect for 3 seconds every 2 seconds for 20 seconds. That still requires everyone to remain near the artificer (or vice versa) for the 20 seconds to benefit for the full time period. Leave the cooldown at 2 or 3 minutes.

Or what about a kind of effect that "converts" damage for the 20 seconds. Characters under the effect of the aura would on hit gain temp hp equal to the (real) damage they just took. So if I have 1000 hp, and get hit for 300, my new hp is 700, but the aura generates 300 temp hp. Now if I take another hit for 500, that ate 300 temp hp and 200 real hp, so it only generates 200 temp hp, leaving me at 500 hp + 200 temp hp. Maybe flavor it up by only allowing the aura to absorb/generate from physical damage, not spell damage. Maybe this isn't an aura anymore but an area of effect buff like an sla. Note how - without other real healing - this could only possibly grant a character up to their same number of real hp, because only loss of real hp is converted into temp hp. That's way weaker than the warlock for a single person but on the other hand can apply to the entire party for 20 seconds every 2 or 3 minutes. So there's a balance there and you keep the value up when in a group.

[karatemack]

Would be interested to know what people want to see there.

Here are a few suggestions of possible tweaks which could be applied in various combinations:

• Change from a cooldown to 1 use/rest or (alternatively) lengthen to cooldown timer to 5 min.
• Change the formula to be based off of # of Arcane Lore Feats acquired
  
  -This opens up additional multiclass options for this tree.
  -Fits with the theme of being a type of "False Life" ability.
  -Makes the ability (and arti "splashes") more appealing despite lowered #s (see next item in list).
• Lower the amount of temp HP gained to 10/Aracane Lore Feat acquired every 2 seconds.
  
  -Would still grant up to 2k temp HP (200/tick).
  -At level 6 it would grant up to 600 temp HP (60/tick).
• Change the ability to effect self and pet only.
  
  -As is, the ability would be far better than a single mass heal.
  -Compared to Bliss and Divine Healing from RS, the benefit to the red bar is massive.
• Does the ability have a lengthy casting animation?
  
  -If not, then it could.
• Does this ability stack with Legendary Affirmation? (unsure if LA is a determination bonus)
  
  -If it does, it shouldn't.
• Remove the double bonus for level 20+ characters.

[Ziindarax]

What we put forward here was an early look at an ability that does not stack with several other forms of Temporary Hit Points (reducing its overall efficacy), buffs the entire party, and lines up with the stated goals of the tree (healing & survivability). The numbers clearly weren't balanced; I should have been more clear about the likelihood of that in this initial post, given that the tree was in an earlier state than we usually publish plans to the public.

There's a difference between "this ability is good in Reaper and OP everywhere else", and "This ability is good across difficulties, and happens to also be useful in Reaper". We're shooting toward the latter. Many classes already have things that apply to that latter category (that "unfair advantage" mentioned here), and it would be problematic to avoid ever introducing something like that in the future - The net effect would be "We can never use Temporary Hit Points or anything on this list in new things ever again". No, we shouldn't look at an ability from a perspective of "Let's add this to make this tree super great and powerful in Reaper", but I would not say it's out of the question to look at it through a lens of "Are we building things that are going to be useful (not powerful, per se, but worth using) to a wide variety of players?". And sometimes, that may include something Defensive that also works well in Reaper.

We'll keep working on it. That might entail testing how the numbers play out across difficulties; that might entail scrapping it outright and putting something less useful but less contentious in its place. Would be interested to know what people want to see there.

If you're open to suggestions and input with regards to what people want to see, Renegade Master maker should keep:

1) The defensive, spell power, and health bonuses.

2) The no-spell failure power (but lower it to tier 4).

3) Make the temporary hitpoints stack with other sources, but move it to tier 5 (this way, it would not be possible to combine it with the most contentious ability that is Shining Through from Warlock.

As for changes and outright replacements:

1) Renegade Master Maker should, for their level 20 core, offer + 4 to Constitution and Intelligence. Keep the extra caster levels, and lower the cool down of the super forcefield (to about a minute and a half). Since this is an improved version of the spell, I would also have it grant +5 stacking spell resistance per 2 caster levels. Epic levels gain double this bonus.

2) The level 18 core should have the cool down lowered to match the cool down on the Radiant Forcefield spell (which does not have much of a cool down). Also, it needs more pizazz - I would make it so that after Radiant Forcefield expires from being cast through any source, you would gain a temporary PRR / MRR buff.

3) Replace component SLA should be enhanced to work for *ANY* Artificer spell, not just the potion spells. Make this 2 points per rank with up to three ranks. Rank 1 does just the curative admixtures, rank 2 works on lower level spells, and rank 3 works on all artificer spells.

4) Master Maker (at tier 5) should grant additional caster levels.

5) Tier 2 should offer a Defensive stance that becomes more powerful with each additional core you take.

[Jarlaxis]

If this Artificer is indeed a master maker, why isn't improved traps somewhere in the list of additions. If lvl 20 to get the best parts is required then wouldn't it be a nice bone to throw in even at a T5 enhancement level?

[Silverleafeon]

We'll keep working on it. That might entail testing how the numbers play out across difficulties; that might entail scrapping it outright and putting something less useful but less contentious in its place. Would be interested to know what people want to see there.

Mass Converter & Mass Deady Weapons

[Ziindarax]

Looking at the general changes to Artificers:

Arcanotechnician:

1) Every two cores you take in Arcanotechnician improves the imbued damage from Rune arms by one die. Example (If I took the second core of ARcano technician for a rune arm that gave me 2d4 damage, that damage would now be 3d4 at level 3. Core 4 at level 12 would make that same rune arm deal 4d4 damage. Finally, Core 6 at level 20 would make that rune arm deal 5d4 damage, and the damage would scale with the appropriate spell power. For instance, Force imbue would scale off of force spellpower, light damage off of light spell power, and so on). Alternatively, you could put the die step enhancements toward the latter end of the cores +1 rune arm imbue die step at level 18 and then another at level 20.

2) Additional Evocation DC bonuses that scale with epic levels (all caster classes that provide a DC bonus should have their bonuses at least doubled in the epic levels, if not tripled).

3) The Pet stuff should be removed from the tree, and put in the Artificer Pet's tree.

4) Replacing those are features that would improve the benefits of defensive buffs, and each core could be re-done to provide a bonus to repair amplification in a fashion similar to the Barbarian trees.

5) Replace the Haste Potion SLA with something more substantial: Something along the lines of Greater Vigor (but with Artificer potion knowledge being applicable - ensure that all curative spells and SLA's add the potion knowledge in addition to caster levels). Also have the potion cores provide an offensive option - damage-over-time effects would make the enhancement tree more interesting - or, put the offensive options in place of the dog enhancements.

6) Have each core provide electric spell power, electric lore, and spell power + lore (to a lesser degree) to a damage type of your choice.

Battle Engineers:

1) A big pet peeve of mine - is you've put the Artificer's damage and critical multiplier boost at level 20, when every other class gets their critical and threat booster far sooner (not later than level 12 for Barbarians, Fighter gets the multiplier as soon as level 6, and the threat range at level 12!). Seeing as you can already take on all the Artificer's weapons as a Kensei path and have the threat and multiplier at level 12, why not move the multiplier from the level 20 core to the level 6 core like with Fighter (you get the threat range at level 12 as with fighter, so that's good).

2) If having a defensive stance in Renegade Master maker is a no go, why not put that defensive / offensive stance in Battle Engineer? Seeing as the cores already provide weapon damage and armor imbues, it would actually make the most sense.

3) Re-work Battle Engineer to provide bonuses to melee, ranged, and spell power (similarly to Warlock's soul eater tree) - one way is by re-working the Battle Engineer's weapon tree so that instead of three options, you have two (one gives ranged power to all crossbows, while another gives melee power to all melee weapons that are thematic to the Artificer)

4) Special damage attacks could use a bit more damage to non-constructs.

5) Weapon imbues similar to Arcane Archer (even if only for an epic destiny)?


Universal Artificer changes:

Dog gets up to 80 AP in light of having a choice of trees.

Elemental Weapons buff scales off of caster level in three tiers: Tier 1) Current implementation with 1d6 damage dice. Tier 2) 2d6 - or 1d6 + 1d10/2d10/3d10 additional damage on a critical hit based on multiplier like the x damage burst of old. Tier 3) 3d6 damage or elemental burst + elemental blast on vorpal.

Align weapons could also be tiered, and flagged as a secondary buff so they would work the the metal bypass buffs (in fact, make the metal bypass buffs work like the Arcane Archer Imbues so that elemental / aligned / deadly weapons can work). With Align weapons - I was thinking in the realm of opposites so as to make weapons more effective so: Tier 1 would give you the current benefit of Align Weapons, Tier 2 would grant the alignment breaking buff along with matching damage (2d12 axiomatic damage for law aligned weapons, 2d12 chaos, 2d12 good, and 2d12 evil for each of the respective bypasses - without inflicting negative level penalties where a character's personal alignment may conflict), and Tier 3 would grant a critical hit version of Tier 2.

Lucky Cape, as a spell, is extremely useless - please change it so that it scales with caster levels, and provides meaningful buffs.


New Imbue spells:

Elemental Armor (provides resistance to a chosen element, a damage guard that scales with level and stacks with other damage guards, and maybe even add a cool cosmetic to the armor while the effect is active).

Greater Armor - An improved version of the Enhance Armor spell, only it grants damage resistance depending on the type of armor selected (Byeshk, Silver, Cold Iron, Adamantine, Mithril, etc.) The Damage resistance offered scales with level (Mithril would not grant any Damage resistances, but it would reduce the spell failure chance of any armor worn by a character. Stacking -1% ASF per caster level up to caster level 20).

Confuse Construct - This spell would work similarly to the Confuse spell, only with higher DC's since it applies to constructs only.

Mass versions of the buff spells.

New feat:

Forcefield projector - while a wearing a rune arm, and actively blocking, your Rune Arm projects a force field that works similarly to the Orbs. Feats and enhancements that would improve shields would apply to Rune arms as well (but only while actively blocking).

[Silverleafeon]

Mass Converter & Mass Deady Weapons

Supported by my guild mate and a serious Arty fan, possibly others...

[Silverleafeon]

A broken thought to consider: Should artificiers have the ability to apply spellpower to items?

Likely not, but its a good time to ask anyway?

[Hephaestas]

A broken thought to consider: Should artificiers have the ability to apply spellpower to items?

Likely not, but its a good time to ask anyway?

Yes. 100% Support. Honestly this would breath new life into the Arcaneotech Capstone, or give it to them in a Tier5. God knows they could use more than just three enhancements there. Should just come down to tech.

[Niminae]

I'd like to clarify for you that I do not intend to *assume* things as it appears you are are thinking I am, I am simply making a more general statement based on all my experience as the class, as well as any knowledge I have acquired from others playing the class.
[snipped]
Thanks for allowing me to clarify things a bit~

Thanks for the clarification. But if you cannot see the irony in your original post claiming that artificers are "Either A -OR- B" and your "clarification" that you are not making assumptions about the class, well here I am to point it out for your benefit.

[Niminae]

5) Replace the Haste Potion SLA with something more substantial: Something along the lines of Greater Vigor (but with Artificer potion knowledge being applicable - ensure that all curative spells and SLA's add the potion knowledge in addition to caster levels).

Mass Armor of Speed SLA or at least Armor of Speed SLA would keep the ability unique to the Artificer spell list. A Mass effect would help defray the fact that buffing a full group or a raid as an artificer is an unnecessarily tedious process.

[Tilomere]

We'll keep working on it. That might entail testing how the numbers play out across difficulties; that might entail scrapping it outright and putting something less useful but less contentious in its place. Would be interested to know what people want to see there.

The ability to temporarily construct a rapid fire floor mounted crossbow like the ones in TOEE and HHOE that the kobolds/Gaurds use. They are also at the start of Defiler of the Just. Damage per second equal to half of character level^3. This will provide melee artificers in situations that melee isn't viable, and AT artificers in situations where electric spells don't work something to do.

If you want group reaper utility, allow them to be used by anyone. Then the undergeared player who can't otherwise contribute in reaper at the time can lay down the law Rambo-style. A DC caster could use one on a boss for example, or a healer could use one when healing isn't necessary.

[Oxarhamar]

Overall improvements look good.

I look forward to trying the new tree.

[cru121]

Mass Armor of Speed SLA or at least Armor of Speed SLA would keep the ability unique to the Artificer spell list. A Mass effect would help defray the fact that buffing a full group or a raid as an artificer is an unnecessarily tedious process.

Mass Armor of Speed SLA would keep stuff unique.
But, they would have to code new stuff.
Haste - they already have that one. So it's probably easier to reuse and the effect is almost the same.
They can call the enhancement Mass Armor of Speed when it'll actually simply cast Haste.

[edrein]

I'd actually like to see a battlefist stance put into Renegade Mastermaker. Even if it's as simple as a low chance to automatically fire your runearm at max charge (without having to charge it up) or as complex as acting as an impromptu shield bash that deals the imbue damage portion and stacks with any shield bash proc chance item or enhancement.

I'd like to see the half elf artificer dilettante give access to runearm use via the enhancement tree. Make Improved Dilettante provide rune arm use like it should by the implication of being as level 2 artificer per the description. Add an artificer dilettante special ability option that allows them to use their character level for the damage calculations for a runearm (rather than artificer levels). Or allow them to access Battle Engineer as an enhancement tree via the AP investment similar to half elf AA. This would open several doors for new builds, or add to already existing builds such as a pure swashbuckler using a runearm.

I'd like to see druidic oath not breaking with certain rune arms that make sense. The most obvious of these being Corruption of Nature as it's made of wood and has quite the fitting thematic bonus for any multiclass/half elf druid-ficer per my previous suggestion. Other possibly fitting/lore explainable rune arms are: Khyber's Fury, all three of the Gianthold Dragon runearms, Archiac Device, Whirling Words, St. Mu'Ray's Fire (natural phenomenon?), Machinations of Madness (come on bees people), and perhaps the two Ravenloft rune arms?

I also have suggestions for the artificer defender that I posted in the druid revamp thread here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6066701

I'd also like some more boosts towards using wands, in particular offensive wands and spell items such as the Staff of Spell Storing, etc. I'd love to dust off my old school epic wands at some point.

[Silverleafeon]

Mass Armor of Speed SLA or at least Armor of Speed SLA would keep the ability unique to the Artificer spell list. A Mass effect would help defray the fact that buffing a full group or a raid as an artificer is an unnecessarily tedious process.

See, I am not the only one who is turned off by having to cast multiple spells on twelve players at every shrine.

Steel you would be doing the entire player base a favor by reducing arty buff time.
Everyone has to wait for deadly, and you could have been the one to create a mass version?

I know people who simply will not play arty due to the responsibility of tedeious single toon buffing at every shrine.

Its a big thing, mass buff!

And please don't under estimate converter.
Having a repair aura is a big thing too!

Think big in these areas that are not considered pure power, please!

[Steelstar]

[chant]RUNE!-ARM!-SOUNDS!!! RUNE!-ARM!-SOUNDS!!! RUNE!-ARM!-SOUNDS!!! [/chant]

Rune Arm sounds will return when this tree goes live, along with an Options-Menu option to turn your personal Rune Arm sounds on and off.

[Memnir]

Rune Arm sounds will return when this tree goes live, along with an Options-Menu option to turn your personal Rune Arm sounds on and off.

[ThomasMink]

Rune Arm sounds will return when this tree goes live, along with an Options-Menu option to turn your personal Rune Arm sounds on and off.

Hell yea! I'm one of the ones who found it oddly jarring when the sounds just randomly disappeared with no mention..
That option should have been how it was handled in the first place.. but hey, live and learn I guess? Regardless, happy to see them return!

[Vish]

What we put forward here was an early look at an ability that does not stack with several other forms of Temporary Hit Points (reducing its overall efficacy), buffs the entire party, and lines up with the stated goals of the tree (healing & survivability). The numbers clearly weren't balanced; I should have been more clear about the likelihood of that in this initial post, given that the tree was in an earlier state than we usually publish plans to the public.

There's a difference between "this ability is good in Reaper and OP everywhere else", and "This ability is good across difficulties, and happens to also be useful in Reaper". We're shooting toward the latter. Many classes already have things that apply to that latter category (that "unfair advantage" mentioned here), and it would be problematic to avoid ever introducing something like that in the future - The net effect would be "We can never use Temporary Hit Points or anything on this list in new things ever again". No, we shouldn't look at an ability from a perspective of "Let's add this to make this tree super great and powerful in Reaper", but I would not say it's out of the question to look at it through a lens of "Are we building things that are going to be useful (not powerful, per se, but worth using) to a wide variety of players?". And sometimes, that may include something Defensive that also works well in Reaper.

We'll keep working on it. That might entail testing how the numbers play out across difficulties; that might entail scrapping it outright and putting something less useful but less contentious in its place. Would be interested to know what people want to see there.

Man,
All I can say is don't
Don't change it
Every time we get something nice,
Ppl complain on the forum,
And we get half the prize
It's like sharing with the house
House always gets its cut
But it's probably because it useful,
And should get something nice for playing arti healer
I mean if you don't build it...
So leave it as is,
Go with your initial gut check
That ones usually right.