Intimidate - Bugged?

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

Ideal improvements I'm not expecting because I know it would be serious engineering work:

1. At least prefill DDO if I click "submit a bug" from in game.
2. Prefill all the account/character/loc/quest details when you click "submit a bug" from within DDO

Oddly enough, doesn't seem to be too hard - as you may recall, DDO Store was being opened in a browser with all your account info, and we all know how sensitive that is.

Can't be too hard to port that to a bug system.

</stop hijacking my own thread>

[losian2]

I was mostly through a far snarkier response with the same gist; this is better.

I understand the issues you have against certain bugs being public, so we're not asking for the internal stuff to be open - just make a forum for it. PoE does this well, but it wouldn't be that complicated, and you already have a moderator. Have /bug do something useful in-game, as mentioned for the "millionth time." Just dump it to an external page if you have to - toon, server, timestamp, loc, etc. Allow the user to copy/paste that into a forum post. Done.

It amazes me that people think a bug forum would be the end-all beat-all best solution.. It's kinda the worse.

Do you all seriously think everyone who posts is going to search and find that their bug has already been posted and add to the discussion? They won't. And that's assuming that the person who posted it before described it in a similar/the same way. Are people not going to just complain and endlessly add to threads off topic? Obviously they will. Devs will have to spend way more time sorting and sifting through a forum approach to bugs than they would with what system they have now.

I have to say I'm on the "it's not a big deal" camp of this whole thing. It's making a mountain out of an ant hill. Yes it's a little clumsy, but it's sure as heck far better than a forum that's rife for all the same time-wasting nonsense that the regular forums are full of - all of these things you people want create _fewer bug resolutions_, not more. "Transparency", listing every little single tiny thing fixed, responding to every thread about every bug (even when many times there is no bug, as you can often see in dev tracker responses..) all of that takes _away_ from resolution and adds overhead. You're not pushing for things that will make the game better.

[Scrapco]

It amazes me that people think a bug forum would be the end-all beat-all best solution.. It's kinda the worse.

Do you all seriously think everyone who posts is going to search and find that their bug has already been posted and add to the discussion? They won't. And that's assuming that the person who posted it before described it in a similar/the same way. Are people not going to just complain and endlessly add to threads off topic? Obviously they will. Devs will have to spend way more time sorting and sifting through a forum approach to bugs than they would with what system they have now.

I have to say I'm on the "it's not a big deal" camp of this whole thing. It's making a mountain out of an ant hill. Yes it's a little clumsy, but it's sure as heck far better than a forum that's rife for all the same time-wasting nonsense that the regular forums are full of - all of these things you people want create _fewer bug resolutions_, not more. "Transparency", listing every little single tiny thing fixed, responding to every thread about every bug (even when many times there is no bug, as you can often see in dev tracker responses..) all of that takes _away_ from resolution and adds overhead. You're not pushing for things that will make the game better.

It amazes me that people think anything could be *worse*. We're not even asking for the end-all beat-all best solution - variations of that have been requested for years, with zero response. Just some real basic improvements that could be done in an afternoon would get people a lot happier. We kinda figured out argument passing 30 years ago... it's not rocket surgery, although the seeming impossibility of making a weekly store page brings me pause.

You're not obligated to read every forum, you know. And devs aren't particularly obligated to spend much time at all on it - somebody like, oh, I don't know... a moderator could do that job. And here's the beauty: it doesn't even have to be an employee, let alone some paid worker whose time would be better spent doing something internal!

What's the real time-wasting part? One person taking five minutes to update a post, or fifty people taking five minutes to submit the same bug, with no knowledge of anybody else's efforts, and the resulting time it takes to read those? "Listing every little single tiny thing fixed" might include, say, this beauty.

Of course we want the game to be better. Part of that is submitting bugs in a reasonable manner, and if you've worked with any kind of major bugtracking systems in the last 20 years, you know this whole process could be miles better for everyone with very little effort invested.

And if you haven't, you can say "everything's fine! This is great! What's the problem?" over and over.

[Seikojin]

Honestly, when it comes down to it, the best way you can make sure a bug is fixed is making a 100% easy repro case out of it. In this intimidate situation, some people get it, some don't. That alone is a glaring case of hard to repro. The devs (not QA) have soo much on their plate that they can't spend time working on something they can't reproduce. I am saying this for all companies and teams, large and small. And if your report and forum post can't get QA to build 100% repro, it will be neigh impossible for it to get addressed within a week/update cycle.

Does this mean to not bother? No. This means to investigate and get that 100% repro.

[Scrapco]

Honestly, when it comes down to it, the best way you can make sure a bug is fixed is making a 100% easy repro case out of it.

Probably the single-best advice for fixing any bug in any situation, ever. Absolutely right.