Intimidate - Bugged?

[Arkat]

You ever have that moment where you're thinking about something and then someone else says something unrelated and then suddenly your memories work again and you get this little "aha!" moment and fix the problem or solve the puzzle? That's what the forums help with. Sometimes we have 99.9999% of a puzzle with bug reports, and then someone on the forums goes "hey check the ED cores" and then you remember that there's this one thing in intimidate that checks for something unrelated and then a whole bunch of things connect and then you go on and win the big yo-yo championship or something.

This snarky response was unnecessary. Just stating the facts and giving a reasonable/detailed explanation would have been perfectly fine.

[Frogger1234]

Then I usually say **** this **** and close the page.

I usually say someone else probably already bug reported this and don't even try.

I did bug report recently when (and how) I got the named arcane skeleton in Castle Ravenloft to jump backwards through the wall behind the rest shrine in the chapel and become untargetable/unkillable. I thought the bug report tool was pretty easy to use, though I don't see why my server or character name would matter in this case.

[Splunge]

You know Lynn, you are always saying here we must send in bug reports, right?

A guildie sent in the first bug report about this 2 years ago, it has been bugged that long.

Since then he has bug reported it again and again many times.

So, no wonder people get disillusioned when they bug report things and nothing happens.

There have been threads about this in the past. As I've said before, this is why I no longer report bugs. There's no feedback of any kind about the bugs, and they don't get fixed. Every time I see a bug and think about reporting it, I figure it's just a waste of my time. I'm not the only one who feels this way. I have a couple of outstanding bug reports that should be easy to fix, but as far as I know, nobody has even looked at them. If they fix them, I'll report more and see how it goes with those.

This is why the "Lynnabel" thread from the summer was so popular. The majority of the bugs reported there got feedback from Lynnabel and got fixed, so the thread got flooded with more bug reports. If the same thing happened when people reported bugs via the bug reporting tool, then SSG would be flooded with bug reports via the tool. There have been suggestions about how to accomplish this. Despite various people at SSG telling us that they really want more bug reports, their actions indicate that it isn't a high priority for them.

[Loromir]

This is the millionth time I've heard this and I honestly just don't understand. I report bugs while I'm playing. It's 3 drop down menus (such as the game you're playing - Lotro or DDO!), and 5 required fields (Character name, account username, subject line, description of the bug, and an email address) - plus the check box to not be a robot. What's a pain in the butt? Am I looking at a different bug report page? Are you a robot?*

*if you are a robot, you've definitely fooled me, please send congratulations to your programmer and remember my kindness in the inevitable robot uprising!

The fact that it's mentioned for the "millionth time" (Your words...not mine) should tell you something.

Maybe a better response should be: "What could we do to make it better?"

[Lynnabel]

There's no feedback of any kind about the bugs, and they don't get fixed.

They do get fixed - I promise. An example of a bug that was fixed from a bug report for this upcoming patch is the material type of the Sword of Shadows - one of the oldest bugs in our system. Players also bug reported the LGS set bonuses had problems with their tooltips, so while I was bug fixing the Ravenloft set bonuses I was able to just give them a kick on the tires and help avoid the string table errors people have been reporting. At this point, I'm getting close to fixing all of the RL bugs I personally caused, too. Bug reports really helped me track down a few of the Filigree issues (specifically with AC granting ones).

A lot of the fixes from U36 were from bug reports, and when people mentioned them to me, I was able to just reply with "this has already been fixed" or "already done." I'm sorry you guys are having such a bad experience with the bug reporting tool, but the information that's required (red asterisk) really is required and helps us a lot to triage and fix issues.

[Ulfo]

The bug report tool should be in game, and collect all relevant char / quest data automatically, the only user input required should be a description of the bug.

^^^
This.

[Tyrande]

I usually say someone else probably already bug reported this and don't even try.

I did bug report recently when (and how) I got the named arcane skeleton in Castle Ravenloft to jump backwards through the wall behind the rest shrine in the chapel and become untargetable/unkillable. I thought the bug report tool was pretty easy to use, though I don't see why my server or character name would matter in this case.

I may be wrong here, but ..
I think the server and character information would be used for developer to "character copy" the character to a development server to reproduce the bug; just in case if they cannot reproduce it with a brand new character auto-leveled up with the level distribution and feats you described.

[Arkat]

They do get fixed - I promise. An example of a bug that was fixed from a bug report for this upcoming patch is the material type of the Sword of Shadows - one of the oldest bugs in our system. Players also bug reported the LGS set bonuses had problems with their tooltips, so while I was bug fixing the Ravenloft set bonuses I was able to just give them a kick on the tires and help avoid the string table errors people have been reporting. At this point, I'm getting close to fixing all of the RL bugs I personally caused, too. Bug reports really helped me track down a few of the Filigree issues (specifically with AC granting ones).

A lot of the fixes from U36 were from bug reports, and when people mentioned them to me, I was able to just reply with "this has already been fixed" or "already done." I'm sorry you guys are having such a bad experience with the bug reporting tool, but the information that's required (red asterisk) really is required and helps us a lot to triage and fix issues.

MUCH better!

[Melllllkor]

I really do not understand why people complain about bug reporting. It is super easy and simple to do.

A caveman can do it.

[Torc]

We've reproduced this problem internally and we have a fix which is on it's way to QA for testing. Hopefully the bug will be resolved in the next patch.

Good info on this thread. Made it fairly easy to track down. Thanks guys.

-Torc

[bracelet]

They do get fixed - I promise. An example of a bug that was fixed from a bug report for this upcoming patch is the material type of the Sword of Shadows - one of the oldest bugs in our system. Players also bug reported the LGS set bonuses had problems with their tooltips, so while I was bug fixing the Ravenloft set bonuses I was able to just give them a kick on the tires and help avoid the string table errors people have been reporting. At this point, I'm getting close to fixing all of the RL bugs I personally caused, too. Bug reports really helped me track down a few of the Filigree issues (specifically with AC granting ones).

A lot of the fixes from U36 were from bug reports, and when people mentioned them to me, I was able to just reply with "this has already been fixed" or "already done." I'm sorry you guys are having such a bad experience with the bug reporting tool, but the information that's required (red asterisk) really is required and helps us a lot to triage and fix issues.

I think part of the issue is that the list of bug fixes in the release notes is usually pretty high level. Only the really big things are listed (usually). Two things I never saw notes for: the far shifter location in GH got fixed so that everyone in the same instance can find it now, not just the first person to get to it -that was broken for at least a year. Heroic Greensteel items don't remove 45 hp when you take off only one of two 45 HP items -that was something I reported at least 5 years ago. I don't know when it got fixed, but it did get fixed. I bet there are tons of little things like that that just don't make the notes. It ends up making it look like little to no progress is being made.

[apocaladle]

They do get fixed - I promise. An example of a bug that was fixed from a bug report for this upcoming patch is the material type of the Sword of Shadows - one of the oldest bugs in our system. Players also bug reported the LGS set bonuses had problems with their tooltips, so while I was bug fixing the Ravenloft set bonuses I was able to just give them a kick on the tires and help avoid the string table errors people have been reporting. At this point, I'm getting close to fixing all of the RL bugs I personally caused, too. Bug reports really helped me track down a few of the Filigree issues (specifically with AC granting ones).

A lot of the fixes from U36 were from bug reports, and when people mentioned them to me, I was able to just reply with "this has already been fixed" or "already done." I'm sorry you guys are having such a bad experience with the bug reporting tool, but the information that's required (red asterisk) really is required and helps us a lot to triage and fix issues.

I know it will probably be a pain in cordos arse but is there any way we can get a list of moderate to large bug fixes in release notes?

[OfElectricMen]

Hi!

This is the millionth time I've heard this and I honestly just don't understand.

Your understanding of the problem isn't required. Only your understanding of the fact that clearly quite a few people do have a problem with it. Once you understand that, then you can move to resolve the issue regardless of whether or not it's an issue for you.

[ddo.rsmo.pt]

You ever have that moment where you're thinking about something and then someone else says something unrelated and then suddenly your memories work again and you get this little "aha!" moment and fix the problem or solve the puzzle? That's what the forums help with. Sometimes we have 99.9999% of a puzzle with bug reports, and then someone on the forums goes "hey check the ED cores" and then you remember that there's this one thing in intimidate that checks for something unrelated and then a whole bunch of things connect and then you go on and win the big yo-yo championship or something.



This is the millionth time I've heard this and I honestly just don't understand. I report bugs while I'm playing. It's 3 drop down menus (such as the game you're playing - Lotro or DDO!), and 5 required fields (Character name, account username, subject line, description of the bug, and an email address) - plus the check box to not be a robot. What's a pain in the butt? Am I looking at a different bug report page? Are you a robot?*

*if you are a robot, you've definitely fooled me, please send congratulations to your programmer and remember my kindness in the inevitable robot uprising!

Im glad my post helped.

But I've used the new bug report system twice, and the only complaint I have is: no one answers.

That's why I used the forums, at least here, people answer, and someone things get fixed! And that's my yo-yo championship.

Carry on.

[Niminae]

We've reproduced this problem internally and we have a fix which is on it's way to QA for testing. Hopefully the bug will be resolved in the next patch.

Good info on this thread. Made it fairly easy to track down. Thanks guys.

-Torc

This is exactly why the bug reporting tool should be ditched and a sub-forum created for bug reporting via forum post.

The bug reporting tool doesn't allow any other player to see which bugs have been reported, and it doesn't allow for the sort of crowd sourced input that Torc stated was key for this bug being resolved.

SSG and Turbine before it have long relied on crowd sourcing for their bug fixing and QA processes, that is what Lammania is after all. So there's no reason at all to continue to rely on an obviously failed bug reporting system which many players will simply not use at all when forum posting of bugs will both bring in more bug reports and more crowd sourced feedback to assist in their resolution.


On a slightly tangential subject but one which is still topical, release notes are almost always clearly missing a lot of information. Putting out 'C-' grade release notes invites 'C-' grade responses. Strive for 'A' grade release notes and you'll receive 'A' grade responses. In the same way that the information the players share with SSG is key in resolving bugs, the information SSG that shares with their customers is key in resolving bugs.

[Scrapco]

This is exactly why the bug reporting tool should be ditched and a sub-forum created for bug reporting via forum post.
<snip>

I was mostly through a far snarkier response with the same gist; this is better.

I understand the issues you have against certain bugs being public, so we're not asking for the internal stuff to be open - just make a forum for it. PoE does this well, but it wouldn't be that complicated, and you already have a moderator. Have /bug do something useful in-game, as mentioned for the "millionth time." Just dump it to an external page if you have to - toon, server, timestamp, loc, etc. Allow the user to copy/paste that into a forum post. Done.

[ahpook]

This snarky response was unnecessary. Just stating the facts and giving a reasonable/detailed explanation would have been perfectly fine.

You really have to be looking to be offended to call that snarky. There was no sarcasm or irreverence. I thought it was an honest description of Lynabel's aHa moment I appreciated her sharing it.

[monsoon22]

We've reproduced this problem internally and we have a fix which is on it's way to QA for testing. Hopefully the bug will be resolved in the next patch.

Good info on this thread. Made it fairly easy to track down. Thanks guys.

-Torc

Thank you and Lynnabel for your response and a fix.

Happy New Year to all...

[Seikojin]

yo-yo championship, I will have to use that at work! We call them halo effect bugs or fixes. You think it is A, but in reality it is because A is connected to D, which C pulls some variables through and gives to E, which compares to the results of A and D to make B. And changes to A makes E break because some improperly formatted syntax that is auto-generated by the results of C, etc.

TLR: it's complicated even for developers. So just be aware everyone struggles. That is what keeps me employed

I am glad though that the devs do not frown upon people reporting in the forums. Lots of places I worked did frown upon it. I even had a stint doing translation of user complaints into bugs, because as meticulous as you think you are, you never can guarantee what you are providing will be reproducible for a developer or QA engineer.

I dunno how many places have Association reps, but I thought it was the bees knees of a role.

My main uses all social skills without issue since the update. So it is clearly some halo effect.

[Elfishski]

This is the millionth time I've heard this and I honestly just don't understand. I report bugs while I'm playing. It's 3 drop down menus (such as the game you're playing - Lotro or DDO!), and 5 required fields (Character name, account username, subject line, description of the bug, and an email address) - plus the check box to not be a robot. What's a pain in the butt? Am I looking at a different bug report page? Are you a robot?*

To be more specific on the most minor changes to just the bug report page that would make it feel less like a waste of time:

1. Don't force password changes on the help system - this isn't necessary, if we need a separate account fine, but let it just stay logged in forever via cookies.
2. Preferred Language - just default this to English seeing as SSG no longer supports German/French clients anyway?
3. Platform & Product - move this to the top of the page before subject because that makes more sense, and whatever product is selected here should adjust every other dropdown lower on the page so that I don't need to select DDO instead of LOTRO for race/class/server

A bigger improvement would be to (optionally) save more defaults to the SSG Help account - this shouldn't be that complex as the email address seems to be saved correctly there so it doesn't need to be re-entered if you're logged in, as while many people have multiple accounts and/or play across multiple servers or both SSG games, etc, I'd guess the majority don't, and it would be nice to have the option to default all of these:

1. Preferred language
2. Platform & Product
3. Operating System
4. Contact name
5. Account Username
6. FTP/Premium/VIP
7. Current Server

Ideal improvements I'm not expecting because I know it would be serious engineering work:

1. At least prefill DDO if I click "submit a bug" from in game.
2. Prefill all the account/character/loc/quest details when you click "submit a bug" from within DDO

And here's a minor typo for you:
Adherent of the mists set: profane bonus to "Postive" energy instead of "Positive" on every heroic and legendary item