Vistanni EDK viable????

[Hulktor]

Hey guys i was wondering if a vistanni edk wiz is viable any1 have tried?

<cast summoning spell> I summon build master unbongwah

[unbongwah]

Wha - ? Where the heck am I?!

Eldritch Knight is (still) terrible. I did have some ideas for Vistani / Pale Master melee builds, though. APs are pretty tight: something like 41 VKF / 21 PM (wraith form) / 12 Harper (INT to dmg) which leaves only 6 APs (plus any bonus racial APs). So maybe something like wiz 17 / monk 3 with those 6 APs going into Henshin for another +20 Melee Power.

Let's try a quick prototype build:

DG Vistani Wraith
17/3 Wizard/Monk
Lawful Neutral Deep Gnome


Level Order

1. Wizard          6. Wizard         11. Wizard         16. Wizard
2. Wizard          7. Wizard         12. Monk           17. Wizard
3. Wizard          8. Wizard         13. Wizard         18. Wizard
4. Wizard          9. Monk           14. Wizard         19. Wizard
5. Wizard         10. Wizard         15. Monk           20. Wizard


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength         7       +4       4: INT
Dexterity       14       +4       8: INT
Constitution    17       +4      12: INT
Intelligence    20       +4      16: INT
Wisdom          10       +4      20: INT
Charisma         6       +4      24: INT
                                 28: INT

Feats

 1        : Insightful Reflexes
 1 Wizard : Maximize Spell
 3        : Past Life: Wizard
 5 Wizard : Quicken Spell
 6        : Spell Penetration
 9        : Greater Spell Penetration OR Adept of Forms
 9 Monk   : Precision
11 Wizard : Heighten Spell OR Empower Spell
12        : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12 Monk   : Two Weapon Fighting
15        : Improved Critical: Piercing
18        : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy OR Completionist OR Master of Forms
18 Wizard : Spell Focus: Necromancy
21 Epic   : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
24 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical OR Burst of Glacial Wrath
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Ruin OR Epic Damage Reduction OR Epic Spell Penetration
28 Destiny: Hellball
29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior OR Dire Charge
30 Epic   : Greater Ruin OR Intensify Spell OR Epic Spell Penetration
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane OR Shadowfell

15 Monk   : Path of Inevitable Dominion


Enhancements (80 AP)

Vistani Knife Fighter (41 AP)
Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Knife Master
Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Acrobatic III, Rapid Attack
Vistani Knife Training, Bleeding Cuts, Haste Boost III
Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Deadly Blades, Intelligence
Vistani Knife Training, Celerity, Double Daggers, Intelligence
Vistani Knife Training, Blessed Blades, Vendetta

Pale Master (21 AP)
Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form
Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
Spell Critical, Bone Armor III
Cloak of Night III, Spell Critical, Intelligence

Harper Agent (12 AP)
Agent of Good I, Intelligence
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat

Henshin Mystic (6 AP)
Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt
Winter's Touch, Negotiator I, Way of the: Elegant Crane
[/color]
Leveling Guide

Harper Agent: Agent of Good I, Intelligence
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat

Pale Master: Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form
Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
Spell Critical, Bone Armor III
Cloak of Night III, Spell Critical, Intelligence

Vistani Knife Fighter: Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Rapid Attack
Vistani Knife Training, Bleeding Cuts, Haste Boost III
Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Deadly Blades
Double Daggers
15. Vis4 Celerity; Hen0 Riddle of Fire; Vis4 Vistani Knife Training
16. Shi0 Bastion of Purity; Shi1 Deft Strikes I, II, III
17. Vis3 Intelligence; Vis4 Intelligence
18. Vis5 Vendetta; Vis5 Vistani Knife Training
19. Vis0 Vistani Fortune; Vis5 Blessed Blades; Vis1 Acrobatic I
20. Reset Shintao
Vistani Knife Fighter: Knife Master
Acrobatic III

Henshin Mystic: Ki Bolt
Winter's Touch, Negotiator I, Way of the: Elegant Crane

You take Deft Strikes for the +10% offhand procs until you get GTWF feat at lvl 21; then you reset Shintao and put those APs into Henshin instead.

Epic feat slots are tight, especially since you need to spend one on GTWF; BAB is too low to take it in heroics. So you need to decide what your primary focus is going to be and choose accordingly.

I haven't figured out the best ED config either. I guess Dreadnought with a bunch of caster or melee DPS Twists? Kinda making this up as I go along.

[Hulktor]

Wha - ? Where the heck am I?!

Eldritch Knight is (still) terrible. I did have some ideas for Vistani / Pale Master melee builds, though. APs are pretty tight: something like 41 VKF / 21 PM (wraith form) / 12 Harper (INT to dmg) which leaves only 6 APs (plus any bonus racial APs). So maybe something like wiz 17 / monk 3 with those 6 APs going into Henshin for another +20 Melee Power.

Ty vm for the quick reply....ahh im kinda new on the game ...... didnt knew EDK was a bad spec...i was thinking about WF Vistanni Wiz/Fight using sword and board.....but since it seems a bad ideia ...... ty vm again

I actually never played a toon with TWF for too long... i remember i tried it... seemed a bit slow to me i was expecting more something like SWF...i should b doing something wrong

[Kriogen]

BAB(base attack bonus) effects your to hit, but also effects your attack speed. Fighter gets +1 BAB per class level. Wizard gets +1 every second level. So half of what Fighter gets.

TWF starts slow, but it gets better with more levels. Fighter does it better/faster then Wizard tho.

Edit: I tried TWF and it worked, but ... there are a couple of Orb out there that can really boost your casting abilities, so I dumped TWF and went with SWF + Orb. Works just as good(melee damage) and is also good for casting(stuff you get on Orbs).

[unbongwah]

i was thinking about WF Vistanni Wiz/Fight using sword and board

FYI, there's a couple of WF ftr/wiz melee builds in this thread. I wouldn't advocate S&B, though; arcane spell failure is too high and DPS is too low, IMO.

VKF feels like it's weighed in favor of TWF: +20% offhand procs, +5% atk speed in the capstone. By comparison, SWF VKF only provides +20 Melee Power and apparently doesn't work with Skirmisher from Swashbuckler, which limits its appeal IMO. But as Kriogen points out, if you want to use an orb in your offhand, then you have to go SWF by default.

[edrein]

-snip-

Psst, VKF favors vampire over wraith. Even with the incorp loss. Splashing monk you're better off going 14/6 or along those lines, shadow veil is arguably better when the attack speed and 100% favor the constant neg leveling.

[unbongwah]

Goal of that build was full melee DPS while keeping level 9 spells. Feel free to post your own.

[Raiztlin75]

Psst, VKF favors vampire over wraith. Even with the incorp loss. Splashing monk you're better off going 14/6 or along those lines, shadow veil is arguably better when the attack speed and 100% favor the constant neg leveling.

Why do you think it favors vampire over wraith

[fmalfeas]

The doublestrike gives increased chances to proc the neg levels that vampire dishes out on vorpal. Neg levels are a brutal thing to do to a mob, and even in EE when they don't last long, Vistani TWF vampire can stack them up rapidly and strip a mob of a huge amount of HP in short order, along with lots of saves and attack bonus. The downside is the wiz levels needed to be in vamp form, and the light vulnerability. Though you can Cannith Craft a Light Resist+Light Absorb trinket with Negative Heal Amp.

[Raiztlin75]

[QUOTE=unbongwah;6052650]Wha - ? Where the heck am I?!

Eldritch Knight is (still) terrible. I did have some ideas for Vistani / Pale Master melee builds, though. APs are pretty tight: something like 41 VKF / 21 PM (wraith form) / 12 Harper (INT to dmg) which leaves only 6 APs (plus any bonus racial APs). So maybe something like wiz 17 / monk 3 with those 6 APs going into Henshin for another +20 Melee Power.

Let's try a quick prototype build:

DG Vistani Wraith
17/3 Wizard/Monk
Lawful Neutral Deep Gnome


Level Order

1. Wizard          6. Wizard         11. Wizard         16. Wizard
2. Wizard          7. Wizard         12. Monk           17. Wizard
3. Wizard          8. Wizard         13. Wizard         18. Wizard
4. Wizard          9. Monk           14. Wizard         19. Wizard
5. Wizard         10. Wizard         15. Monk           20. Wizard


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength         7       +4       4: INT
Dexterity       14       +4       8: INT
Constitution    17       +4      12: INT
Intelligence    20       +4      16: INT
Wisdom          10       +4      20: INT
Charisma         6       +4      24: INT
                                 28: INT

Feats

 1        : Insightful Reflexes
 1 Wizard : Maximize Spell
 3        : Past Life: Wizard
 5 Wizard : Quicken Spell
 6        : Spell Penetration
 9        : Greater Spell Penetration OR Adept of Forms
 9 Monk   : Precision
11 Wizard : Heighten Spell OR Empower Spell
12        : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12 Monk   : Two Weapon Fighting
15        : Improved Critical: Piercing
18        : Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy OR Completionist OR Master of Forms
18 Wizard : Spell Focus: Necromancy
21 Epic   : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
24 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical OR Burst of Glacial Wrath
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Ruin OR Epic Damage Reduction OR Epic Spell Penetration
28 Destiny: Hellball
29 Destiny: Arcane Warrior OR Dire Charge
30 Epic   : Greater Ruin OR Intensify Spell OR Epic Spell Penetration
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane OR Shadowfell

15 Monk   : Path of Inevitable Dominion


Enhancements (80 AP)

Vistani Knife Fighter (41 AP)
Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Knife Master
Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Acrobatic III, Rapid Attack
Vistani Knife Training, Bleeding Cuts, Haste Boost III
Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Deadly Blades, Intelligence
Vistani Knife Training, Celerity, Double Daggers, Intelligence
Vistani Knife Training, Blessed Blades, Vendetta

Pale Master (21 AP)
Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form
Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
Spell Critical, Bone Armor III
Cloak of Night III, Spell Critical, Intelligence

Harper Agent (12 AP)
Agent of Good I, Intelligence
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat

Henshin Mystic (6 AP)
Riddle of Fire, Ki Bolt
Winter's Touch, Negotiator I, Way of the: Elegant Crane
[/color]
Leveling Guide

Harper Agent: Agent of Good I, Intelligence
Harper Enchantment, Strategic Combat
Know the Angles III
Strategic Combat

Pale Master: Dark Reaping, Zombie Form, Vampire Form, Wraith Form
Spell Critical, Negative Energy Conduit III
Spell Critical, Bone Armor III
Cloak of Night III, Spell Critical, Intelligence

Vistani Knife Fighter: Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Rapid Attack
Vistani Knife Training, Bleeding Cuts, Haste Boost III
Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Deadly Blades
Double Daggers
15. Vis4 Celerity; Hen0 Riddle of Fire; Vis4 Vistani Knife Training
16. Shi0 Bastion of Purity; Shi1 Deft Strikes I, II, III
17. Vis3 Intelligence; Vis4 Intelligence
18. Vis5 Vendetta; Vis5 Vistani Knife Training
19. Vis0 Vistani Fortune; Vis5 Blessed Blades; Vis1 Acrobatic I
20. Reset Shintao
Vistani Knife Fighter: Knife Master
Acrobatic III

Henshin Mystic: Ki Bolt
Winter's Touch, Negotiator I, Way of the: Elegant Crane

You take Deft Strikes for the +10% offhand procs until you get GTWF feat at lvl 21; then you reset Shintao and put those APs into Henshin instead.

Epic feat slots are tight, especially since you need to spend one on GTWF; BAB is too low to take it in heroics. So you need to decide what your primary focus is going to be and choose accordingly.

I haven't figured out the best ED config either. I guess Dreadnought with a bunch of caster or melee DPS Twists? Kinda making this up as I go along.


Love the concept but at what lvl do you start duel wielding i was trying to figure that out as because by lvl 7 you have 24 ap 12 is spent in harper that leaves 12 if you move to palemaster your out of thinking of duel wielding till almost 15 can this be done on a first life wizard no tomes using drow also to mention i have 32 point opened up as well

[unbongwah]

With the recent change to tome progression - everything got moved down so they kick in sooner - you could take the monk splash w/TWF much earlier. However APs are still an issue: you need 12 for Deadly Blades to be centered and 12 for tier-3 Strategic Combat; so you have to be level 6 before you have enough APs for both. So TBH I'm not sure how I would handle those early levels.

Or rather I know what I would do personally - use some of the XP gems I have banked away to skip the first few levels just so I had enough APs to spend - I just don't know what to tell other players who either don't have that option or want to run low-lvl Reapers instead.

[Kriogen]

... However APs are still an issue: you need 12 for Deadly Blades to be centered and 12 for tier-3 Strategic Combat; so you have to be level 6 before you have enough APs for both. So TBH I'm not sure how I would handle those early levels...

Yup, APs are a real problem. Vistani, Harper, Pale Master, Archmage, some nice perks from Monk. And then there could be some nice things in Racial tree.

Works better on Druid for example. Its what Im leveling now(plan is Druid 18/Monk2, but is possible i'll end up as 17/3). Druids enhancements are a bit on the blah side, so Im not really missing them. Should be the same on classes where enhancements are weak/old/outdated or don't fit the theme(melee+casting).

[unbongwah]

Works better on Druid for example. Its what Im leveling now(plan is Druid 18/Monk2, but is possible i'll end up as 17/3).

I was thinking druid 17 / monk 3 or druid 13 / monk 6: DEX-based for melee to-hit & dmg (plus AC & Reflex saves ofc), WIS for caster DCs or monk abilities. Basically dusting off some old Drunk builds and tweaking them for Vistani instead of monk trees. I'm hoping the upcoming druid pass gives them some extra oomph too.

But that's a build discussion for a different thread.