First life, new player 28pt TYWA build.

[trancefate]

This is Ranli Redbeard, built out for my friend who has recently began as a brand new player.

Things we've decided

1) He wants to play a dwarf. TYWA (throw your weight around, grants constitution to dmg and hit) barb was chosen because of this. I haven't played in years, and he is a new player. I want there to be a large cushion of HP for him to make mistakes and not just die outright. Leveling up he will have me supporting him with some kind new DC cleric to try out domains, or a favored soul henshin acrobat I'm TRing another char into soon. so self sufficiency early on is less important.


2) He wants to be pure barbarian because the ravager capstone looks fun (I wholeheartedly agree, and it may be pretty effective considering the CON build).

Ranli Redbeard
Barbarian 20
Chaotic Good Dwarf


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .+1. . . .4: CON
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . . . . . 8: CON
Constitution. . 20. . . . . . . .12: CON
Intelligence. . 10. . . . . . . .16: CON
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . . . . .20: CON
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . . . . .24: CON
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CON

Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.3. . . . : Cleave
.6. . . . : Great Cleave
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
12. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
15. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
18. . . . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Armor Proficiency: Heavy
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Blinding Speed
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Enhancements (80 AP)

Ravager (44 AP)
Furious Rage, Pain Touch, Demoralizing Success, Pain Touch II, Subsiding Fury, Visage of Terror
Do You Like Pain? III, Barbarian Power Attack III, Hardy Rage III
I Like Pain III, Melee Power Boost III
Slaughter III, Constitution
Laughter, I Hit Back! III, Constitution
Blood Strength, Bully III, Uncanny Balance, Critical Rage II
Dwarf (18 AP)
Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution, Dwarven Toughness II, Dwarven Constitution II, Dwarven Toughness III
Pick and Hammer Training
Child of the Mountain I, Pick and Hammer Training
Pick and Hammer Training
Pick and Hammer Training, Throw Your Weight Around
Frenzied Berserker (18 AP)
Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy
Extra Rage III, Athletics III
Angry Arms III, Blood Tribute III
Supreme Cleave III

Things i'm considering:

1) I'm not sure what new gear is like, he may or may not need to swap some points around to pick up constitution nodes in frenzied.

2) Stunning? Could it be possible to have a workable stun even without focusing on str with gear? Is Dire Charge good enough to focus 3 points into dwarven tactics and take some gear slots up for stunning? I haven't played in a LONG time so I'm in the dark here.

3) Heavy Armor proficiency? If he decides he wants it I'll probly have him take it early as possible and push the THF line down one. Or perhaps throw it in later when he's got some better gear he wants to use? Maybe don't use it at all. The reason I'm considering this is as a first life first time player he probly won't be pushing the max dex bonus on medium armor or min/maxing for AC so the PRR on plate may be more useful when considering it as a multiplier for his massive HP pool.

If we take this feat out, we put could put stunning blow in here, in which case I think he'd want it earlier rather than later, when the STR mod is less important than the gear mods.

Big question mark here.

4) Epic destinies? I'm not extremely familiar with them. I'm assuming legendary dreadnought, he could drop damage boost and take haste boost there freeing up some AP, or maybe play in the primal one that gives rage bonuses and big hits (can't remember the name, again i've been gone a while)


Put this here partially for his/our benefit so he can reference it as he levels, and for your advice as well. Let me know what you guys think!

[Qhualor]

~ wearing heavy armor you don't get the benefits of +10 PRR at level 11 with Greater Rage.

~ I stopped taking Blinding Speed a long time ago. You get the same movement and attack speed, if not better, with Speed items. Easy to find and comes on a lot of named loot.

~ already going to have a lot of hitpoints, even on a first life character, and I assume level appropriate Con gear. I have a hard time justifying spending 4 AP on 2 points of Con. Lots of better things to pick, imo, like Dismember. Hitting that as one of your ducks in a row with Unbridled Fury is juicy.

~ imo, the Pain line is not worth it. Those temporary hitpoints are pretty much gone in 1 or 2 hits. Lots of wasted AP just to get to the good one, I Hit Back!

~ Athletics is another waste of AP for a boost to speed ONLY when you activate rage. Do a Bladeforged life and get the same thing.

~ I hate temporary hitpoints on melees. I despise Blood Tribute even more. Each use is a -1 to Con until you shrine or die.

1. Cannith Crafting had a big overhaul early last year. It's better than random loot and rivals some named gear, some cases out classing them.

2. Couldn't tell you. My barb doesn't use stuns or Dire Charge. She does use Ear Smash and Knockout from Occult Slayer. It stuns pretty much anything and works very well. I love this combo. Could replace heavy armor feat for SB. If it doesn't seem to work well than you can always visit Fred. I will say though that my Vanguard Fighter is a TYWA build normally and stuns aren't really a problem.

3. I wouldn't worry about AC on a barb. It's never going to be good, even with heavy armor. Remember that rage lowers AC. You are better off investing Dodge and utilizing the Uncanny Dodge clicky.

4. My barb uses Fury of the Wild, but many here will say Legendary Dreadnaught. They say it does more dps and primary reason is because of Blitz, which is not easy to maintain. I suspect your new player friend would struggle with it. I love Fury because I built and play my barb on crits and damage spikes.

[trancefate]

~ wearing heavy armor you don't get the benefits of +10 PRR at level 11 with Greater Rage.

~ I stopped taking Blinding Speed a long time ago. You get the same movement and attack speed, if not better, with Speed items. Easy to find and comes on a lot of named loot.

~ already going to have a lot of hitpoints, even on a first life character, and I assume level appropriate Con gear. I have a hard time justifying spending 4 AP on 2 points of Con. Lots of better things to pick, imo, like Dismember. Hitting that as one of your ducks in a row with Unbridled Fury is juicy.

~ imo, the Pain line is not worth it. Those temporary hitpoints are pretty much gone in 1 or 2 hits. Lots of wasted AP just to get to the good one, I Hit Back!

~ Athletics is another waste of AP for a boost to speed ONLY when you activate rage. Do a Bladeforged life and get the same thing.

~ I hate temporary hitpoints on melees. I despise Blood Tribute even more. Each use is a -1 to Con until you shrine or die.

1. Cannith Crafting had a big overhaul early last year. It's better than random loot and rivals some named gear, some cases out classing them.

2. Couldn't tell you. My barb doesn't use stuns or Dire Charge. She does use Ear Smash and Knockout from Occult Slayer. It stuns pretty much anything and works very well. I love this combo. Could replace heavy armor feat for SB. If it doesn't seem to work well than you can always visit Fred. I will say though that my Vanguard Fighter is a TYWA build normally and stuns aren't really a problem.

3. I wouldn't worry about AC on a barb. It's never going to be good, even with heavy armor. Remember that rage lowers AC. You are better off investing Dodge and utilizing the Uncanny Dodge clicky.

4. My barb uses Fury of the Wild, but many here will say Legendary Dreadnaught. They say it does more dps and primary reason is because of Blitz, which is not easy to maintain. I suspect your new player friend would struggle with it. I love Fury because I built and play my barb on crits and damage spikes.

Thanks for the note about heavy armor and blinding speed, i'm assuming 15% enhancement to melee attack speed can be found on gear regularly now?

Regarding your dislike of temporary hitpoints on melee characters, can you elaborate as to why? As it stands it seems like if the only way he can possibly survive a quest solo is by using the blood tribute to get through traps and I like pain for sustain (at least pre blood strength). I do think he should consider speccing out of blood tribute for extra action boosts once he's got TYWA so he isn't lowering to hit/dmg.

Dire charge confuses me because stunning builds used to only work after tons of thought effort and gear were involved. Has this changed? I see every build taking this ability now and not just tactics fighters.

I'm personally thinking drop heavy armor for stunning blow, and keep charge. I've moved Epic DR up to replace blinding speed, but don't see anything I like at lvl 30. I suppose toughness or maybe epic fort/reflex... not really sure. I'll probly leave it blank so he knows to take whatevers clever.

Thank you for the advice! My biggest remaining questions now revolve around Supreme Cleave. Is it worth taking the third rank of supreme cleave given that a 6s timer (rank 2) lines up perfectly with Cleave and Great Cleave (5s)? Will he be killing himself with the 10hp cost 3s cooldown Supreme Cleave or is the self healing enough to overcome this? Is it worth picking up blood tribute/trail just to drop the HP cost on supreme cleave (i hope not)?

[trancefate]

This is what i've come up with as an updated build.

Ranli Redbeard
Barbarian 20
Chaotic Good Dwarf


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .+1. . . .4: CON
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . . . . . 8: CON
Constitution. . 20. . . . . . . .12: CON
Intelligence. . 10. . . . . . . .16: CON
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . . . . .20: CON
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . . . . .24: CON
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CON

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Listen. . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Intim . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Jump. . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Swim. . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 0. 4. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0
. . . . .16. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.3. . . . : Cleave
.6. . . . : Great Cleave
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
12. . . . : Stunning Blow
15. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
18. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : ?¿?¿?¿?
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Enhancements (80 AP)

Ravager (41 AP)

• Furious Rage, Pain Touch, Demoralizing Success, Pain Touch II, Subsiding Fury, Visage of Terror
  1. Barbarian Power Attack III, Hardy Rage III
  2. Cruel Cut III, Melee Power Boost III
  3. Slaughter III, Festering Wound III, Constitution
  4. Laughter, Dismember III, Constitution
  5. Blood Strength, Uncanny Balance, Critical Rage II

Frenzied Berserker (21 AP)

• Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy, Frenzied Toughness II
  1. Extra Rage III, Die Harder I
  2. Angry Arms III, Extra Action Boost I, Sprint Boost III
  3. Mad Munitions III, Supreme Cleave III

Dwarf (18 AP)

• Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution, Dwarven Toughness II, Dwarven Constitution II
  1. Pick and Hammer Training
  2. Dwarven Tactics III, Pick and Hammer Training
  3. Pick and Hammer Training
  4. Pick and Hammer Training, Throw Your Weight Around

Originally I was not too keen on "cruel cut" line over "do you like pain" as another active seems like too much when you already have 3 cleaves, slaughter, charge, boosts, and epic destiny abilities... HOWEVER, this frees up a few points which gets me a third core in Frenzied Berzerker which is an extra 10prr 60hp and 20 HAmp; this seals the deal in my mind.

[Qhualor]

Thanks for the note about heavy armor and blinding speed, i'm assuming 15% enhancement to melee attack speed can be found on gear regularly now?

Regarding your dislike of temporary hitpoints on melee characters, can you elaborate as to why? As it stands it seems like if the only way he can possibly survive a quest solo is by using the blood tribute to get through traps and I like pain for sustain (at least pre blood strength). I do think he should consider speccing out of blood tribute for extra action boosts once he's got TYWA so he isn't lowering to hit/dmg.

Dire charge confuses me because stunning builds used to only work after tons of thought effort and gear were involved. Has this changed? I see every build taking this ability now and not just tactics fighters.

I'm personally thinking drop heavy armor for stunning blow, and keep charge. I've moved Epic DR up to replace blinding speed, but don't see anything I like at lvl 30. I suppose toughness or maybe epic fort/reflex... not really sure. I'll probly leave it blank so he knows to take whatevers clever.

Thank you for the advice! My biggest remaining questions now revolve around Supreme Cleave. Is it worth taking the third rank of supreme cleave given that a 6s timer (rank 2) lines up perfectly with Cleave and Great Cleave (5s)? Will he be killing himself with the 10hp cost 3s cooldown Supreme Cleave or is the self healing enough to overcome this? Is it worth picking up blood tribute/trail just to drop the HP cost on supreme cleave (i hope not)?

Speed items are pretty common. I should correct myself and say you get 32% movement speed from the feat at level 27, but in comparison you can get 2% less and same attack speed on the Boots of the Innocent. This would be called Speed XV. From level 28 and on you can get higher speed. Note that haste does not stack.

I feel they are too low for front line melees. Useful? Sure because you can absorb an extra hit or 2, but that's essentially about it. For a barb it makes thematic sense, but I prefer to invest in other forms of survivability and dps than to invest AP into a very short and very temporary buffer.

The thing with Blood Strength is its healing on a 12% chance from hitting mobs and it's boosted by things like MP. There is a 1 second cooldown after killing mobs to heal for 20 hp boosted by MP. That means if he's soloing than he needs to have good defenses so not to lose much in hp and really good dps to quickly bring down mobs to use BS as primary healing. Most traps are avoidable or there are ways to take minimal damage. It mostly comes down to timing, remembering where traps are to avoid or jumping around it. Once through the trap he still would have a -1 to Con, but personal choice I suppose . Temporary hitpoints aren't terrible, I just don't like how well they scale for melees compared to how much damage taken.

It's probably the DC. I'm never at cap long enough to even think about taking the feat so not sure other than what I've read or heard. I've heard it might be a little OP. Stun items are easy to find. LD can help boost the DC too.

Like I said, never at cap long enough to know what is best for my barb, but usually take Epic Will. Will saves are the Achilles Heel for barbs. I always take Epic Toughness at 24.

All cleaves are worth taking. Glancing blows work while cleaving and the more damage, the more procs from weapon effects and the higher the glancing blow damage the better the dps numbers are bringing down multiple mobs at once. Using BS can heal fine, but you are still going to need to rely on pots, hires or some other form of outside healing. SF pots are still worth getting despite the penalties. Since the build uses Con for damage, the penalty is less severe because it doesn't lower your Con score.

[Qhualor]

This is what i've come up with as an updated build.

Ranli Redbeard
Barbarian 20
Chaotic Good Dwarf


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 16. . . .+1. . . .4: CON
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . . . . . 8: CON
Constitution. . 20. . . . . . . .12: CON
Intelligence. . 10. . . . . . . .16: CON
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . . . . .20: CON
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . . . . .24: CON
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: CON

Skills
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Listen. . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Intim . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Jump. . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Swim. . . . .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . . 0. 4. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0. 0
. . . . .16. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4. 4


Feats

.1. . . . : Power Attack
.3. . . . : Cleave
.6. . . . : Great Cleave
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Bludgeoning
12. . . . : Stunning Blow
15. . . . : Two Handed Fighting
18. . . . : Improved Two Handed Fighting
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Greater Two Handed Fighting
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Perfect Two Handed Fighting
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : ?¿?¿?¿?
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea


Enhancements (80 AP)

Ravager (41 AP)

• Furious Rage, Pain Touch, Demoralizing Success, Pain Touch II, Subsiding Fury, Visage of Terror
  1. Barbarian Power Attack III, Hardy Rage III
  2. Cruel Cut III, Melee Power Boost III
  3. Slaughter III, Festering Wound III, Constitution
  4. Laughter, Dismember III, Constitution
  5. Blood Strength, Uncanny Balance, Critical Rage II

Frenzied Berserker (21 AP)

• Die Hard, Frenzied Toughness, Frenzy, Frenzied Toughness II
  1. Extra Rage III, Die Harder I
  2. Angry Arms III, Extra Action Boost I, Sprint Boost III
  3. Mad Munitions III, Supreme Cleave III

Dwarf (18 AP)

• Dwarven Toughness, Dwarven Constitution, Dwarven Toughness II, Dwarven Constitution II
  1. Pick and Hammer Training
  2. Dwarven Tactics III, Pick and Hammer Training
  3. Pick and Hammer Training
  4. Pick and Hammer Training, Throw Your Weight Around

Originally I was not too keen on "cruel cut" line over "do you like pain" as another active seems like too much when you already have 3 cleaves, slaughter, charge, boosts, and epic destiny abilities... HOWEVER, this frees up a few points which gets me a third core in Frenzied Berzerker which is an extra 10prr 60hp and 20 HAmp; this seals the deal in my mind.

Looks pretty good overall. My barb has about a bar and a half of stuff to click, but you tend to use the same ones like the cleaves, Slaughter and destiny stuff while fighting trash. Longer fights like bosses you tend to use the other ones more. You wouldn't be using cleaves and Dire Charge for those.

[unbongwah]

We have a few threads about TYWA barbs already listed in my Kundarak Brigade thread.

[trancefate]

We have a few threads about TYWA barbs already listed in my Kundarak Brigade thread.

Cool thanks, never thought to check race forums for builds. Noticed no barbarians, any thoughts?

[unbongwah]

Noticed no barbarians, any thoughts?

There are two listed in my OP:

Barbarian: Kundarak Krasher (THF), Occult Slayer (TWF)

And I just remembered Thorix.