Ravenloft Expansion Preview #2 Sentient Weapons Feedback

[Renvar]

TDLR; For the majority of non-casters, greensteel is the go to for end game weapons, please let sentient be applicable to those weapons.

While the base idea is great, as a person who plays consistently at end game this system isn't really aimed for people who want to sit at end game.

"Most named weapons that are not crafted and have a minimum level of 21 or higher can accept a Sentient Jewel and become sentient. This will be applied retroactively to existing named weapons; appropriate weapons players have already earned can accept Sentient Jewels if the weapon is capable of becoming Sentient."

If I'm understanding that correctly crafted items will not be able to get sentient status.

This is a huge problem. At the moment for non-caster types there isn't much named weapons that would be considered best in slot. Running r1's-r10's its normally salt and triple positive greensteel for your melee and ranged types with very few exceptions for dps primary examples being sapphire sting swap off for bosses, bleeding edge for CC, divine artillery or epic assassins kiss for a small dps increase. Even then most melees or rangers are not running those named items primarily over greensteel at end game. The hitpoint bonus is too big, and the salt slow is a must have for r10's added on by the fact any melee or ranger type could use these make them wide reaching so that anyone could gain from using these weapons. So please dev's find a way to let crafted items gain the effects of sentient gear. So like minded people who enjoy running a variety of non-casters at end game have the option to put these bonuses on.

Edit: After looking at some of the raid gear you may be able to add one or two items to the list (Looking at you handwraps) but largely greensteel is still best in slot.

You know there are a whole bunch of new named weapons coming with RL, right? You have only seen the accessories for the 6 man quests and the sentient system. The weapons and the Raid Loot are yet to be revealed.

[Drwaz99]

You know there are a whole bunch of new named weapons coming with RL, right? You have only seen the accessories for the 6 man quests and the sentient system. The weapons and the Raid Loot are yet to be revealed.

They've been revealed (and you can check them out on Lama):

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6040103

[Anaximandroz]

RIP PUGS.

"Hey cool, can I have that Sword of Shadows? It would be a pretty awesome upgrade!"
"Nope, sorry, my gem needs 10 xp."

You guys might want to instead just create 'sentient essence' or something that can randomly drop for people that do the same thing. Just putting that out there.

Was my 1st thought. The system sounds cool but hits one of the best things in ddo the good will of the community.

[GordolGreydon]

You know there are a whole bunch of new named weapons coming with RL, right? You have only seen the accessories for the 6 man quests and the sentient system. The weapons and the Raid Loot are yet to be revealed.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ck#post6040099

Yeah heres a list of the new look. Nice caster stick with the illusion bonuses

As I've said in the edit of my post the list is still largely unchanged.

[blerkington]

I'd just like to echo other people's concerns about the social effects this system will have on sharing named loot. It really is going to usher in a new age of selfishness and the people who will be hurt the most are less well established players. That is a very bad path to go down, in my opinion anyway.

Maybe what you could do instead is write a script that also generates a sentient weapon xp gem every time a named item drops. So if my loot has a named item, I can give that to someone else who needs it but keep the sentient weapon xp gem for myself.

Such a system could also be tied to difficulty, so the value of the sentient weapon xp gem is higher for doing quests on higher difficulties. This would address people's very justified concerns that your current proposal wrongly incentivises lower difficulties, and gives people more reason to run higher difficulties instead.

Thanks.

[Qhualor]

I just want to point out that selfishness of players has existed since the beginning. named items for Sentient weapon xp wont be any different. I do see what others are concerned about and I don't disagree, but passing loot to other players isn't something DDO players are known to be good about doing. as an example, if anyone remembers the TOD days and party leaders not letting in certain builds or players looking for specific rings that they were also looking for. in raids where players would ask why a barbarian was looting or rolling on items that were clearly meant for casters and the response was "I will be doing a cleric past life" or some such. these days it does still happen regardless and, in my experience at least, it doesn't get questioned as much because the TR grind is so prevalent in todays game and so much named loot is considered weak/outdated/whatever. especially in the beginning as players are trying to earn the xp as fast as possible, I do think it will be a little worse than those old days.

[Fivetigers33]

I'd just like to echo other people's concerns about the social effects this system will have on sharing named loot. It really is going to usher in a new age of selfishness and the people who will be hurt the most are less well established players. That is a very bad path to go down, in my opinion anyway.

Maybe what you could do instead is write a script that also generates a sentient weapon xp gem every time a named item drops. So if my loot has a named item, I can give that to someone else who needs it but keep the sentient weapon xp gem for myself.

Such a system could also be tied to difficulty, so the value of the sentient weapon xp gem is higher for doing quests on higher difficulties. This would address people's very justified concerns that your current proposal wrongly incentivises lower difficulties, and gives people more reason to run higher difficulties instead.

Thanks.

This. Tie sentient xp to quest xp or something else. People will be less likely to pass items in chests now if it cost them potential sentient weapon xp. Also, some people are just unlucky and don't pull named items very often. I also imagine the AH being void of pretty much all named items if this goes live.

[Tielryn]

This sounds really awesome, but as someone who isn't as interested in epic content, and mostly does heroic TR, I would love to see at least some iteration of sentient weapons for heroic level characters.

[Krelar]

RIP PUGS.

"Hey cool, can I have that Sword of Shadows? It would be a pretty awesome upgrade!"
"Nope, sorry, my gem needs 10 xp."

You guys might want to instead just create 'sentient essence' or something that can randomly drop for people that do the same thing. Just putting that out there.

This is pretty much my thought as well when reading that part. Good luck getting anything passed to you ever again. I'm also not seeing anything that really encourages playing at cap like (I thought?) we were told this system would be about. I can run ML 28+ quests way below cap most of the time.

[blerkington]

I just want to point out that selfishness of players has existed since the beginning. named items for Sentient weapon xp wont be any different. I do see what others are concerned about and I don't disagree, but passing loot to other players isn't something DDO players are known to be good about doing. as an example, if anyone remembers the TOD days and party leaders not letting in certain builds or players looking for specific rings that they were also looking for. in raids where players would ask why a barbarian was looting or rolling on items that were clearly meant for casters and the response was "I will be doing a cleric past life" or some such. these days it does still happen regardless and, in my experience at least, it doesn't get questioned as much because the TR grind is so prevalent in todays game and so much named loot is considered weak/outdated/whatever. especially in the beginning as players are trying to earn the xp as fast as possible, I do think it will be a little worse than those old days.

Your experience about loot sharing is obviously very different to mine. I've been passed some very nice items by generous players and I do my best to share loot if I don't need it. Most of the long term players I run with are very cooperative about sharing loot and like to help new people by gearing them up this way.

The key point here is we don't want a system that gives people any more reason to be selfish than there already is. You and I may disagree on how selfish other players are on average, but hopefully we can agree we don't want to encourage people to become more selfish. And that is exactly what this system as is currently proposed will do.

Thanks.

[Fivetigers33]

There isn't a single ML21+ Kukri.

I haven't checked other weapon types, but by excluding crafted weapons, you are severely limiting players' options.

Making it ML21+ and excluding crafted weapons also pretty much puts the nail in the coffin for Alchemical weapons and certainly epic crafted weapons. They might not be as powerful as they once were, but I am a big fan of both, and would love to see them included in sentient weapons.

[Legic]

What weapons will accept Sentience?

A large portion of named weapons with Minimum levels higher than 21 will accept Sentience. There are exceptions to that including, most notably, named items that go through certain crafting or upgrading systems. This list includes, but is not limited to upgradable weapons from Temple of Elemental Evil, Legendary Green Steel, and Thunder-Forged Weapons.

Wait, so what named weapon is an end game caster supposed to use if not Legendary Green Steel? It's best in slot in most builds and situations to my knowledge. Triple Acid, Vacuum, Salt, etc. If this system is supposed to be designed around end game, maybe it should be more compatible with end game loadouts? Maybe I'm missing something but this seems slightly awkward. This is compounded by the lack of interesting named caster weapons listed in the expansion preview.



Other than this issue, I like sentient weapons a lot and look forward to spending more time at cap.

[Qhualor]

Your experience about loot sharing is obviously very different to mine. I've been passed some very nice items by generous players and I do my best to share loot if I don't need it. Most of the long term players I run with are very cooperative about sharing loot and like to help new people by gearing them up this way.

The key point here is we don't want a system that gives people any more reason to be selfish than there already is. You and I may disagree on how selfish other players are on average, but hopefully we can agree we don't want to encourage people to become more selfish. And that is exactly what this system as is currently proposed will do.

Thanks.

I know you are very good about passing loot and you seem to run with players that are like minded. I'm not saying loot passing never happens out of the kindness of players, its just when the loot is very desired that players than become more unlikely to pass. with a brand new crafting system that I suspect most players will want to participate in, I think we will see less kindness than we do now.

if something can be done so players are more likely to share named loot with each other, than I'm all for it. I just don't think, aside from imposing some kind of restrictions, anything can be done to make players less selfish or more willing to pass loot. as is, this will be up to the player to change their mindset. I don't want a system to encourage more selfishness either and would like to see a more friendly gaming environment.

[JOTMON]

Each piece of Sentient Filigree adds magical power on top of the weapon’s enchantments. Each filigree has a primary power and it also belongs to a set. This means each piece of Filigree not only adds effects to the weapon, but as you add more and more pieces of Filigree from a specific set, the weapon will gain more bonus powers. Each set has a bonus power for having two pieces of the set, and sets range from a total of 3 to 5 total set bonuses. Note that since a fully empowered weapon can hold up to 7 pieces of Filigree, the player will have to mix and match Filigree from multiple sets to find the best combination of set bonuses.

A weapon can only have one of each Filigree. You cannot slot two of the same Filigree in one weapon.

The system will let you slot two 'same effect' filigrees from different set groups, but they do not stack.
For instance.., I slotted 6 different '+1 CHA' filigrees from different sets which the system let me slot, but they do not stack. Only got +1 Cha.

[Wizza]

This is going to be Reaper 2.0 drama:

"You told us this system was endgame!!!" "Nop, never did, we only meant to be played in epics. Never mentioned high skulls".

Sentient Weapons should have been the reason to buy the pack, for this mythic promised endgame. Nope, not even close.

Will wait until Severlin shows up for his explanation about this afk casual farm fest system.

[SirValentine]

Most named weapons that are not crafted and have a minimum level of 21 or higher can accept a Sentient Jewel and become sentient. This will be applied retroactively to existing named weapons; appropriate weapons players have already earned can accept Sentient Jewels if the weapon is capable of becoming Sentient.

Why ML 21? More specifically, why not 20? You could put some extra life back into old Epic items by letting them become sentient.

I wouldn't bother using a sentient level 21-30 weapon that would be a step down from the ML 20 endgame weapon I've typically used.

[Silverleafeon]

Initial thoughts after quick read thru:


* Concern that Sentient Weapon bonuses are good enough to compete with a main hand Greensteel Weapon?
Will this system tempt at least some players at end game to hold Greensteel in off hand plus Sentient in main hand?
Would have to do a lot of math stuff and see things that the Devs already see to answer that, so Devs I ask you to consider thus?
{Which obviously you already have...}


* Plus for excluding craftable weapons which would obviously become the prime choice for this system.


* Plus for creating a new system of xp based upon destroying name loot as per the often requested approach to this system.
{See posts on the subject long ago, including myself.}


* Not concerned about loot sharing being impacted.
Overall this will definitely increase RAIDING groups, at least I know it will on Khyber.
On Khyber if a player really needs an items, good players are very generous about it.
So, more raid groups = more chance to pull items = more chances to get what you really need.
{If your friends are not willing to pass something you really, really want recall some advice given to me long ago by another player:
"...you need better friends..."


* Glad to have an excuse to review old loot and ask myself, "Do I really, really need this item?"
My TR cache is going to get lighter very soon.


* Glad to see that one can upgrade weapons at the level one wants.
This grants everyone a chance to pick their favorite weapon and boost it.


*Glad to see that end game loot sxp > heroic loot sxp.
Obviously the End Gamers need a boost in group after racial past lives occurred.


* Glad to see that earning those top tiers will take a lifetime (or so it might seem) of looting.


* Ponders raid loot vs nonraid loot sxp and realizes that the two being equal in sxp values is good.
Players are more likely to farm out quests than raid, but will be interested in raiding again.


* Glad to see the ability to go to the store and remove progress without losing progress via pay to win Leg Greensteel Extractor style.
One of the things I don't like about Slavers is being unable to lift progress as one's gaming style changes.
Being able to evolve is important.


* Goes back to DDO wiki to consider what sort of weapon might be interesting to start working upwards?
Predicts all the name weapons in the game will be rerated in order of possible potential.


* Hopes for more end game items as such?


* Wonders whether Slayers caster Qstaff {which can have Slayer's set bonus added to it} is excluded or not.
Rather nice druid weapon and a few bonuses on it might tip the scale vs greensteel?

[blerkington]

I know you are very good about passing loot and you seem to run with players that are like minded. I'm not saying loot passing never happens out of the kindness of players, its just when the loot is very desired that players than become more unlikely to pass. with a brand new crafting system that I suspect most players will want to participate in, I think we will see less kindness than we do now.

if something can be done so players are more likely to share named loot with each other, than I'm all for it. I just don't think, aside from imposing some kind of restrictions, anything can be done to make players less selfish or more willing to pass loot. as is, this will be up to the player to change their mindset. I don't want a system to encourage more selfishness either and would like to see a more friendly gaming environment.

No, I'm not arguing that the sentient weapon xp gems would make people more likely to share loot. But what I am saying, is that without them it's very likely there would be (even) less loot sharing. We don't want any less sharing than there already is. It makes for a nasty game.

What really concerns me is that the developers may see less loot sharing as the more desirable outcome for them. So instead of us helping newbies and working together to defeat grind as civilised players do now, we are all encouraged into selfish behaviour because the devs think it will lead to everyone running more content in pursuit of named items. And so the game becomes this ****show of self interest above all else where even good people who previously did share named loot now won't do it anymore because it hurts their own progress.

This just seems like a rehash of that astonishingly dumb attempt we had a while back to make named items from raids required ingredients for certain cannith crafting recipes. Whether this is someone attempting to recycle another version of what was a bad idea back then, or this is another developer accidentally making the same mistake as a predecessor, it's just got to stop. If you don't have a principles of loot design document then get yourselves a whiteboard for writing up these bad loot ideas and put this on there so it never happens again.

Thanks.

[QueenOfTheHook]

I'm with the others expressing the concern about loot sharing going down. Right now you can run CiTW with a group and people that have been playing forever already has the loot so they gladly share. That will go out the window. Now it won't matter if the monk in the group could really used the named handwraps that dropped, those are worth sxp now.

[Silverleafeon]

One of the things that sets Legendary Greensteel apart from any other weapon system in the game is that tier one provides an "enhancement" bonus to spell power instead of the usual "equipment" bonus to spellpower. This is very difficult to ignore, and is fairly common knowledge.