Ravenloft Expansion Preview #2 Sentient Weapons Feedback

[SirValentine]

Which brings me to another point. You’re done right? With the stat increases? +20, +9 insight, +4 quality, +2 profrane, +1 exceptional, +1 sentient, set bonus, artifact, sentient bonus or w/e the hell we’re calling the new ones, etc. etc.. etc.. You’re done adding new and increasing numbers to stats right? Please be content with adding more of what already exists in new and interesting ways instead of making more increases to total and variety. The difference between the haves and have nots is staggering. Frankly this applies to nearly any stat, not just ability scores. Let the game spread its wings a bit.

I'm not sure they know how to do anything else anymore. I mean, after years of +7 stat only on end-game ML 20 items when the level cap was 20, we went, pretty reasonably, to +8 when cap went to 25.

They could have gone to +9 when cap went to 28, and to +10 when cap went to 30. But, no, from +8 at level 25, we're going to have +20 at level 30.

And it's not just the sheer size increase, but the deliberate invalidation of their own systems...wasn't LGS supposed to be end-game-worthy grindy raid loot? It only had +15! So instead it got invalidated by grindy Slavers with their +17...which is now totally outclassed by the new +20.

Remember when Amrath loot, and Greensteel, and S/S/S Epic items, and Dragontouched, and various other named raid items, all co-existed, without flat-out vastly outclassing each other's numerical stats?

From Shadowfail onward, loot has been just junk power bloat.

[Seikojin]

Sentient Gem slotted weapons reject the off hand, so you cannot dual wield. (or even equip off hand)

Sentient compatible weapons will only take 1 sentient gem.

Sentient Gems can be upgraded to 7 Filigree's. (by sacrificing named items to it for XP while slotted in a weapon)

Filgree's with the same bonus within the same set will not slot.

Filgrees with the same bonus type from different sets will slot, but do not stack.

It is currently unknown what the drop rates will be for Filigree's. (there are 170ish Filigrees and 29 different sets)
It is currently unknown what the chance will be for Named Weapons level 21+ to drop with a sentient gem.
It is unlikely they will tell us what the drop chances are.. its likely one of those you will see when it is live scenario's.

Removing Filgree's and Sentient Gem's requires Sentient unslotting tools.
Every slotted Filagree has to be individually unslotted (or destroyed with a destruction tool) before the gem can be unslotted.

Doh, I think there is a bug for 2 weapon sentients. I swear my toon had 2 weapons gemmed up. They were the same weapon name, so that may bypass. When the next lam is up, I can check. To any dev: My character Songed had two sentient light hammers.

[mr420247]

Will the raids have either a 20 turn in list or a codex kind of turn in any know

[Cocomajobo]

Will the raids have either a 20 turn in list or a codex kind of turn in any know

Rune vendor just like Riding the Storm Out.

[SirValentine]

Can someone fighting with Two Weapons wield two sentient weapons?

Weapons with a Sentient Jewel slotted in them will reject being placed in your off hand.

That's ugly. So no using scrolls/wands/throwers/etc with your sentient weapons.

No-2-at-once is reasonable, and fits lore. But having to be in a particular hand seems like a lazy way to implement it.

[Jandric]

You cannot create a Sentient Shield or Sentient Orb, no.

You cannot wield Sentient Items (that have been slotted with Sentient Jewels) in both hands at once.

You can use any non-Sentient item you'd normally be able to use in your offhand (including Orbs and Shields, as well as Weapons that do not contain a Sentient Jewel) while wielding a Sentient weapon in your main hand.

Doesn't this tilt the balance further in favor of the SWF/THF?

[staples]

Reward long term players with using outdated seals and shards to feed the beast....

[etotheipi]

(1) Don't permit named items which drop in raids to feed the gems.
(2) Add a chance for a BTC auto-consumable drop in raids which will feed the gems.
(3) Have the auto-consumable BTC raid drop provide far more XP than same-level non-raid items which do feed the gem.

This will result in the system encouraging raiding (and particularly end-game raiding) which is much needed. It will also sell RBT's.

[Noir]

*snip Can someone fighting with Two Weapons wield two sentient weapons?

Weapons with a Sentient Jewel slotted in them will reject being placed in your off hand.

Ok.. This makes sense to me because it is Lore Based. Sentient weapons as are depicted in DnD from AD&D at least until 3.5 always had their own motivations, Will, Goals, and an Ego of their own. No Sentient weapon would want to play second fiddle to another Sentient weapon or even worse. A Non-Sentient weapon.
They would complain, and if they became to unhappy with their situation they would attempt to rectify it and find a more suitable "host" to wield them. (Like screaming at the top of their lungs when you try to stealth past the whole tribe of of Orcs.) and even attempt to overcome the will of their wielder and usurp control (Ego roll).

[GeoffWatson]

Ok.. This makes sense to me because it is Lore Based. Sentient weapons as are depicted in DnD from AD&D at least until 3.5 always had their own motivations, Will, Goals, and an Ego of their own. No Sentient weapon would want to play second fiddle to another Sentient weapon or even worse. A Non-Sentient weapon.
They would complain, and if they became to unhappy with their situation they would attempt to rectify it and find a more suitable "host" to wield them. (Like screaming at the top of their lungs when you try to stealth past the whole tribe of of Orcs.) and even attempt to overcome the will of their wielder and usurp control (Ego roll).

Only if you have a pathetic DM who plays all sentient weapons as whiny little children.

[Niminae]

I honestly just threw that out there as an option. In truth I believe anyone who will not pass you raid loot to get sentient xp, wasn't going to pass it anyway. I think this will have absolutely no effect on loot passing.

No, that isn't a realistic expectation. "Jerks will be jerks" isn't the right answer here.

When previously there was absolutely zero value in picking up a second BTC item, it would be passed. When previously there was very little value in picking up a second BtA item, it would be passed.

The value in platinum for vendoring an item was previously so trivial that generosity was encouraged.

Now however, previously valueless drops have a value other than useless platinum, and so generosity is no longer encouraged.

No amount of "you can overcome this via some hypothetical barter system" will ever make the root of the problem disappear: Making Named items have a value other than platinum will make players think twice about passing them. And that isn't going to be good for the game.

[Niminae]

And it's not just the sheer size increase, but the deliberate invalidation of their own systems...wasn't LGS supposed to be end-game-worthy grindy raid loot? It only had +15! So instead it got invalidated by grindy Slavers with their +17...which is now totally outclassed by the new +20.

Remember when Amrath loot, and Greensteel, and S/S/S Epic items, and Dragontouched, and various other named raid items, all co-existed, without flat-out vastly outclassing each other's numerical stats?

From Shadowfail onward, loot has been just junk power bloat.

The new system has to invalidate the old system. That seems to be the new design goal.

Adding Sentient Weapons to LGS, or Thunder Forged, or S/S/S weapons, or Cannith Crafted weapons isn't going to break the game. And in a lot of cases they are what drives the game forward. So how about a statement from the devs of exactly why these items can't be made Sentient? The player have now given their feedback on the Sentient Weapon system which was requested by the devs, so some answers to all of the players concerns is a fair expectation.

[Elfishski]

The new system has to invalidate the old system. That seems to be the new design goal.

Adding Sentient Weapons to LGS, or Thunder Forged, or S/S/S weapons, or Cannith Crafted weapons isn't going to break the game. And in a lot of cases they are what drives the game forward. So how about a statement from the devs of exactly why these items can't be made Sentient? The player have now given their feedback on the Sentient Weapon system which was requested by the devs, so some answers to all of the players concerns is a fair expectation.

As people have said - LGS in many cases is a superior choice to sentient weapons, or complementary for proc effects. Realistically it's probably because coding is hard and crafted items might interact weirdly with sentience. But in terms of balance, one argument is that if you add sentience to LGS it's strict power creep, if you only add it to named items there's more variety and choice. This way if you hate Legendary Shroud you're okay with a sentient weapon of some kind and can benefit from the set, and if you can't be bothered with sorting hundreds of new filigrees or collecting named items you can stick to LGS. Or thunderforged.

Or just not bother with any of it because there will be some new endgame crafting which will be better than both of them next update with +25 stats and equivalent DPS effects...

[Qeistalan]

The new sentient system claims: "A large portion of named weapons with Minimum levels higher than 21 will accept Sentience. There are exceptions to that including, most notably, named items that go through certain crafting or upgrading systems. This list includes, but is not limited to upgradeable weapons from Temple of Elemental Evil, Legendary Green Steel, and Thunder-Forged Weapons." This also will exclude any weapon upgraded with Hero Comms (CITW, FOT weapons)? And although it does not specifically name Cannith-crafted weaponry, it is absolutely inferred these will also be "ineligible" for sentient upgrades.

Sentient weapons exclude/eliminate every current endgear weapon. Yet again, devs have created another "mutually exclusive" scenario: use your current gear and not incorporate anything from the new sentience content; or, farm for the new sentient content, and bank/destroy all your old gear. [BTW, "feeding sentient gems" smells like SSG's solution to "free up bank space."]

The new raid weapons offer a total of 5 light weapons: 2 daggers, 1 short sword, 1 light hammer (no one uses light hammers), and 1 sickle (which has all healing properties and zero combat perks). No light mace, no light pick, no kukri. Not even a scimitar to be found for Tempest Rangers.

So, other than the new 5 subpar Ravenloft raid light weapons, what named light weapons lvl 21+ are left in the game to "upgrade"? Drow Weapon Master weapons? Fell Shiv? Devourer's Reaping?

My main toon is a Dex-based light-2WF using scimitars and light maces. What scims or light maces are available for sentience: Royal Scimitars? Leopard's Chill? Frostbite blades?
Skullsmasher? NO ONE considers any of these weapons endgear.

Denying two sentient weapons for 2WF, another nerfing. Why not make Epic Slice and Dice sentient together? They are already a PAIRED SET, and seem like good candidates for each to have sentience.

"This" is a complete short-sighted failure IMO. I definitely feel like I wasted my money "investing" in the Ultimate RL package.

Buyers beware.

[bjones0064]

The new sentient system claims: "A large portion of named weapons with Minimum levels higher than 21 will accept Sentience. There are exceptions to that including, most notably, named items that go through certain crafting or upgrading systems. This list includes, but is not limited to upgradeable weapons from Temple of Elemental Evil, Legendary Green Steel, and Thunder-Forged Weapons." This also will exclude any weapon upgraded with Hero Comms (CITW, FOT weapons), and although it does not specifically name Cannith-crafted weaponry, it is absolutely inferred these will also be "ineligible" for sentient upgrades.

Sentient weapons exclude/eliminate every current endgear weapon. Yet again, devs have created another "mutually exclusive" scenario: use your current gear and not incorporate anything from the new sentience content; or, farm for the new sentient content, and bank/destroy all your old gear. [BTW, "feeding sentient gems" smells like SSG's solution to "free up bank space."]

The new raid weapons offer a total of 5 light weapons: 2 daggers, 1 short sword, 1 light hammer (no one uses light hammers), and 1 sickle (which has all healing properties and zero combat perks). No light mace, no light pick, no kukri. Not even a scimitar to be found for Tempest Rangers.

So, other than the new 5 subpar Ravenloft raid light weapons, what named light weapons lvl 21+ are left in the game to "upgrade"? Drow Weapon Master weapons? Fell Shiv? Devourer's Reaping?

My main toon is a Dex-based light-2WF using scimitars and light maces. What scims or light maces are available for sentience: Royal Scimitars? Leopard's Chill? Frostbite blades?
Skullsmasher? NO ONE considers any of these weapons endgear.

Denying two sentient weapons for 2WF, another nerfing. Why not make Epic Slice and Dice sentient together? They are already a PAIRED SET, and seem like good candidates for each to have sentience.

"This" is a complete short-sighted failure IMO. I definitely feel like I wasted my money "investing" in the Ultimate RL package.

Buyers beware.

I do agree Epic Slice and Dice are a good combo for this system. But are you sure Citw weapons are not compatible? Other players have said they were able to upgrade their Pinion on the preview server.

[gwonbush]

The new sentient system claims: "A large portion of named weapons with Minimum levels higher than 21 will accept Sentience. There are exceptions to that including, most notably, named items that go through certain crafting or upgrading systems. This list includes, but is not limited to upgradeable weapons from Temple of Elemental Evil, Legendary Green Steel, and Thunder-Forged Weapons." This also will exclude any weapon upgraded with Hero Comms (CITW, FOT weapons), and although it does not specifically name Cannith-crafted weaponry, it is absolutely inferred these will also be "ineligible" for sentient upgrades.

Sentient weapons exclude/eliminate every current endgear weapon. Yet again, devs have created another "mutually exclusive" scenario: use your current gear and not incorporate anything from the new sentience content; or, farm for the new sentient content, and bank/destroy all your old gear. [BTW, "feeding sentient gems" smells like SSG's solution to "free up bank space."]

The new raid weapons offer a total of 5 light weapons: 2 daggers, 1 short sword, 1 light hammer (no one uses light hammers), and 1 sickle (which has all healing properties and zero combat perks). No light mace, no light pick, no kukri. Not even a scimitar to be found for Tempest Rangers.

So, other than the new 5 subpar Ravenloft raid light weapons, what named light weapons lvl 21+ are left in the game to "upgrade"? Drow Weapon Master weapons? Fell Shiv? Devourer's Reaping?

My main toon is a Dex-based light-2WF using scimitars and light maces. What scims or light maces are available for sentience: Royal Scimitars? Leopard's Chill? Frostbite blades?
Skullsmasher? NO ONE considers any of these weapons endgear.

Denying two sentient weapons for 2WF, another nerfing. Why not make Epic Slice and Dice sentient together? They are already a PAIRED SET, and seem like good candidates for each to have sentience.

"This" is a complete short-sighted failure IMO. I definitely feel like I wasted my money "investing" in the Ultimate RL package.

Buyers beware.

If you take the weapon finesse feat and improved weapon finesse in Deepwood Stalker, you could use the new rapier as a dex-based Tempest. Guardbreaking is good enough on its own to justify a feat or two spent for it.

[Fenix93]

I start by saying...That i read More and more times this Thread, I have noticed many conflicting opinions ,some were constructive speeches, others (as usual) a little less. But what has always made me confused, and that we talk so much but no one ever makes a screenshot of what's being spoken ... to help others
who are out of beta and can not prove it, That's why I'm in the game and I want to show some pictures to make it better.

Sensient Weapon System illustrated:

After reading the initial post I lost a bit about some things it's all seemed quite complicated, but in the end as many DDO systems, it turns out very simple is intuitive. Here is how the panel is presented in DDO

you access in the inventory and The panel will be on the Pet panel (if you've got pet in game)Here's how the panel looks like.

the panel at first sight is very small, smaller than that of LGS, At first I was a little scared because I thought the system would look like LOTRO, but then seeing this panel I got rid of, in the end is a very simple system is easy to handle (in theory), the way you get XP is similar then to Neverwinter online,I like that any named loot can be converted to XP and not just weapons.

Thoughts and Ideas:

Starting from the panel, I think it's too small but really too small ...ok we only have 7 slots for the watermarks to unlock, and besides that there is nothing,only ... it has been seen to be somewhat empty on some aspects (I mean space in the panel for the icon ecc..)here is then my edited version of how the panel would look smoother and more elegant.

it looks a lot better in my mind so .. it's ... the part above, where the weapon looks I still seems empty ... maybe add the chance to enter the name of the sensient gem?

But leaving the panel that I believe in the end is not a definite thing, what has caused me perplexity are sensient gems, as the malleable part of the system is not implemented in this beta and several times in recent months the Devs said,that weapons will have selectable personalities based on alignment, I immediately thought that gems would have an aesthetic function, and each will match a different alignment-personality.

as you can notice the gems ... they are 5 but the alignment selectable ones in the game are 6!

so my theory is that gems are just aesthetic, and they will not have any influence on our PG, but if the alignments are 6 that you can use ... how come there are only 5 gems?

so my questions are

Will there be a 6 gems?

These gems as you will get in the game?

Removing a gem from a weapon will be easy or difficult?

if it is difficult you could plan to make sure that you do not have to remove every single watermark to remove the gem as mentioned before?

Speaking of the minimum level I think 20-30 is much better than 21-30 at the end there are several low-level 20 weapons with great effects that could be used with this system ... although ...the problem is that these weapons need to be upgraded to epic because they are part of a now-obsolete system ... the alternative would be to make weapons, objects, etc ... levelable up to 20, just to epic ...thus removing Eldritch crafting (or how it is called in play)so that there is no frustration of having to tear, shard, seal etc. ... the same thing I talk about all those weapons of SC, GH and Road of Shadows that each named is made on multiple levels based on the difficulty. .. also update these items in a way that reflects the latest ones or, to make them one level only for all the difficulties.Perhaps that is why some low-grade weapons in the epic do not accept the sentient system because of these "conflicts"?

But let's talk about LGS weapons and Thunder Forged and ToEE weapons ... these weapons ... are not part of the system because they are too complicated to encode? do I simply because they are too powerful and would obscure the rest of the weapons that are coming soon?

I have been asked and the answer I believe is the 2nd ... although I also agree that LGS and Thunder Forged and ToEE weapons must be part of the system, on the other hand it is fair that these systems should be the ski to stay in order to make people get used to new items

so my questions are

Is it possible to change the level limit from 21 to 30 to 20 to 30?

if it is possible to make old objects with updating Eldrich to epic (Silver Flame Bow, for example) can already have the epic option if found?

Is it possible that all the objects of SC, GH and Road of Shadows have all the highest levels possible in all difficulties, rather than a different one for every difficulty?

Can LGS, Thunder Forged, and ToEE Weapons be aggressive to the sensient weapon system?

[Bobmj]

...

Very informative. Thank you for taking the time to do this, Fenix!

[Fenix93]

Very informative. Thank you for taking the time to do this, Fenix!

Thank you! I'm glad to have been useful, but I want to take the opportunity to tell everyone not to be afraid to show Lammania's pictures and thoughts and post them here on the forum.This conceptually and grandiose system but it is clear that it needs love and many corrections so that it is fun for everyone to use, so...

I invite everyone to make constructive and non-intimidating speeches, but expose photos and ideas on this system so that it can be improved, let's make the Devs have the opportunity to create something beautiful.

[Qeistalan]

If you take the weapon finesse feat and improved weapon finesse in Deepwood Stalker, you could use the new rapier as a dex-based Tempest. Guardbreaking is good enough on its own to justify a feat or two spent for it.

Yeah, maybe I should give up the Heroic Completionist feat to make room for Weapon Finesse. [Another ridiculous issue: Completionist feat isn't passive. Spoiler alert.]

I should not have to completely change my main toon's FEATS to "fit in" a feat I do not currently use to grace myself with ONE sentient weapon. No one should have to change their build to accommodate new content. Your suggestion is not a solution; it's an excuse giving the devs a pass on more lazy gamework. The devs combining CURRENT ENDGAME WEAPONS *AND* SENTIENCE UPGRADES is the solution.