Ravenloft Expansion Preview #2 Sentient Weapons Feedback

[Claver]

Gloaming Philter (min level 27 named item) can not be fed to sentient weapon gems

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Gloaming_Philter

FYI

[Qhualor]

Please consider allowing shields to be Sentient weapons.

- Shields are considered weapons in DDO, just look at the abilities on shields and the Vanguard trees for proof.

- There are a number of interesting shields that would make good sentient weapons from Min level 22 to cap

- This gives shield users a way to get sentient weapons on par with two weapon users and dual caster stick casters

- This can be done while still keeping the restriction of only having one sentient weapon - if you have a sentient shield you can not have a sentient weapon in your main hand.

while shields can be used as a weapon for any build capable of equipping one, using shields as a weapon is primarily a Vanguard thing. I would rather continue pushing for a shield crafting system for both heroic and epic. we have crafting systems for everything else, but shields.

[Silverleafeon]

How many end game caster sticks are there to upgrade to sentient weapons?


I count this in the expansion:

[
Truth, The Light Within

Sickle
7.5 [W]
20/x2

• Devotion +208
• Insightful Devotion +104
• Healing Lore +30%
• Efficient Metamagic - Empower Healing II
• Purple Augment Slot
• Red Augment Slot

Spiral, the Voice of the Elements

Club
6.5 [W]
20/x2

• Elemental Spiral Elemental power pulses within you. This weapon quickly cycles through bonuses to different elemental spell powers and spell lores
• Kinetic Lore +30%
• Impulse +208
• Insightful Impulse +104
• Purple Augment Slot
• Red Augment Slot

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but are these the only caster weapons that we upgrade to sentient weapons inside the whole expansion?



and how many of these are caster weapons:

Minimum level 28 weapons
Dawnbringer (level 28) • Elemental Fury (Level 28) • Epic Arm of the Archons • Epic Bleeding Edge • Epic Dice • Epic Divine Artillery • Epic Light Unending • Epic Locked and Loaded • Epic Return to Sender • Epic Riftmaker • Epic Rod of Mythant • Epic Scraps of Enlightenment • Epic Slice • Fellblade (longsword) • Frostbite Blade (Level 28) • Giant's Fist (Level 28) • Knives Eternal • Legendary Deep Demise • Legendary Drowhunter • Legendary Dwarven Brawler's Wraps • Legendary Forge • Legendary Forgotten Axe • Legendary Heavy Boltslinger • Legendary Light Boltslinger • Legendary Slave Master's Staff • Legendary Stonework Beam • Legendary Thunderstrike • Legendary Wave of Despair • Legendary Wave of Sorrow • Magistrate's Scepter (Level 28) • Master's Riposte (Level 28) • The Epic Fatal Flaw • The Legendary Arc Welder (close range) • The Legendary Arc Welder (long range) • Thunder and Lightning (Level 28)

Minimum level 29 weapons
Machination of Madness • Storm's Harness

Minimum level 30 weapons
First Light (level 30) • Kookie Kutter (level 30)

[Silverleafeon]

I assume this does not count, since it is "craftable"?

[Silverleafeon]

This is terrible, its handwraps and it takes up two hands.

[Silverleafeon]

Ok, this one is pretty good, but it is focused on Warlocks.

[Silverleafeon]

Here is one a Deep Gnome might use?

[Silverleafeon]

About all I can find.
Up until now Leg Greensteel has been Caster's favorite weapons.
I am not saying that we have to include them into sentient weapons.


I am just pointing out there are hardly any caster weapons available inside the expansion.
Will go back and look at the random named stuff, hoping to find something there.

Wondering what the elemental random cycling will be like, and thinking that is not going to be popular at all.

Much likely to have players want a standard element and have all four types drop?
But maybe not?

[Silverleafeon]

Zero caster weapons here:

Weapons:

Heroic: Minimum level 10

• Barovian's (One of each weapon type)
  
  • Silver, Alchemical
  • Keen I
  • Undead Bane 3d10
  • Maiming 3
• Macabre's (One of each weapon type)
  
  • Mother Night's Embrace This weapon is unholy and imbued by one of the two dieties of Barovia - the Mother Night. This weapon is evil, dealing an additional 3d6 evil damage on each hit.
  • Human Bane 3d10
  • Doublestrike +6
  • Deception +4

Legendary: Minimum Level 29

• Morninglord's (One of each weapon type)
  
  • Silver, Alchemical
  • Keen V
  • Sovereign Disruption On hit: 4 to 24 Bane damage to Undead. On Vorpal Hit: If undead struck by this weapon has fewer than 300 Hit Points, it is instantly slain. If the Undead has above 3000 Hit Points, it takes 300 damage.
  • Greater Maiming
• Nightmother's (One of each weapon type)
  
  • Mother Night's Embrace This weapon is unholy and imbued by one of the two dieties of Barovia - the Mother Night. This weapon is evil, dealing an additional 9d6 evil damage on each hit.
  • Human Bane 9d10
  • Doublestrike +22
  • Deception +16

One would think the Devs would have bothered to make a random named dropped caster type?

[Silverleafeon]

Suggest that the random elemental one keeps at least two types at all times as it cycles around.

[Silverleafeon]

One the other hand, its nice to see a lot of spell power on things other than weapons.

[lyrecono]

I'm not getting it.

The amount of times we need to switch weapons just to break mob dr is stagering
Suping up 1 weapon is only partially usefull.

Removing a full gem costs 8 removel items, if they are as costly as the epic shroud ones, we're looking at a 1250 ddo points per stack of 10

Another issue is the item to put it on, i understand that the old seal/shard/scroll ml 20 weapons won't work, its old code.
But for things like tanking the 3X positive greensteel is kind of manditory.

Can't you create 1 slot on a toons boddy that can hold 1 gem? Something that works regardless of weapon?
Just rename it to sentient pin, clasp, button, etc.

[Wongar]

while shields can be used as a weapon for any build capable of equipping one, using shields as a weapon is primarily a Vanguard thing. I would rather continue pushing for a shield crafting system for both heroic and epic. we have crafting systems for everything else, but shields.

I have to disagree that shields as weapons is only a Vanguard thing. Shields as weapons was a thing long before Vanguard was introduced and you do not need Vanguard to use a shield as a weapon - consider Wizards, Sorcs and Bards get offensive shield enhancements.

While I would like to see shields included into crafting systems I don't think it is relevant to this discussion. We have a good argument for allowing shields to be Sentient weapons but we have already been told NO about shields in Thunderforge and LGS crafting and I see the chance of getting that retroactively changed at near zero.

This is really about making the Sentient weapon system useful to more people and making it something to get excited about. Extending the system to include more named options while staying within the original proposed theme will increase the pool of people that will find it useful and fun. As it is now, there is simply no named weapon that fits my main build so the Sentient weapon system will do nothing but cause me sadness, frustration, and anger. I don't think I am alone in this view.

[Vish]

Ok some final thoughts on sentient weapons
First, keep filigree unbound
Second, double the mp/rp in sets
These are supposed to be smart weapons?
Give them some punch
This is supposed to be endgame,
You know the state of melee
We need more mp and more defense
Double both in the fighting sets
Casters already get dc adds
Melee needs more than 5 mp from a smart weapon
That a joke
A stupid weapon
Give us something to wield
And as for using named only,
Make them only ml 28+
For a real endgame
And then crank it up,
Because you know everyone's playing reaper
And melees getting the shaft

So filigree unbound
Double melee power in sets
Or triple it
Thx
From a monk

[Cantor]

Tie sentient xp to quest xp

NO, just no. Quest level and difficulty setting, ok. Quest exp no. We don't need another reason to only run dailies, and or whatever optional people bot now that the obvious ones are removed.

Also add something to Sagas for sentient xp.

* Glad to see that earning those top tiers will take a lifetime (or so it might seem) of looting.

* Ponders raid loot vs nonraid loot sxp and realizes that the two being equal in sxp values is good.
Players are more likely to farm out quests than raid, but will be interested in raiding again.

I thought 5, 6, 7 (maybe even 3+ tiers) should be more. 70 ML 28 items is not a big deal, for some one with several capped characters. I'll cap a gem day one using obsoleted loot from one mule. (orchard, 3 barrel, devil's, etc)

Agreed on raid loot, only a real piece of work would not pass raid loot and keep for sentient xp when you can get as much from junk in a quest.

I'm with the others expressing the concern about loot sharing going down. Right now you can run CiTW with a group and people that have been playing forever already has the loot so they gladly share. That will go out the window. Now it won't matter if the monk in the group could really used the named handwraps that dropped, those are worth sxp now.

Hoard tradable loot. : oh you are not gonna pass that pinion to get exp? here is a higher ML piece of garbage from GH for it. I really don't see this being an issue. I don't play with anyone that big of an *******.

1) snarky dagger... If I pulled this on my pally I might be bummed but what if I was able to trade it? of give it to my rogue? Keep playing until I found that cool intelligent Dwarven axe with the personality of a bottled dwarven warpriest!! that would be cool.

I kinda agree here, big loss of flavor on sentient weapons which should be a strong aspect. With the UI options to silence them we don't need this generic build system.

The biggest fear of a sxp gem from raids would be players duplicating thus.

After all, the xp gems from Sagas were very short lived, removed very quickly after their implementation.
Likely due to duplication issues.

I loved those. Just another example of cheaters ruining it for the rest of us.

I actually like the loot feed system and it gives room for the economy to come back (something that is really needed) as btc/aoe gear can now be sold to people.

Agreed but, they need to raise the SXP requirements A LOT. Any minor hoarder is capping multiple gems day one from mules.

Can you crunch Estar trade-in weapons? I have a lot of commendations...

LOL, I thought of that too.

I consider thunder forged to be the last interesting crafting system, with all its imbalance and so on.

I guess this is it for me. I cannot understand the players that say that they like this; I simply cannot understand their thought process.

I can't understand how you think thunderforged is interesting when there is one clear winner at every crafting stage. There is very little real choice.

[Qhualor]

I have to disagree that shields as weapons is only a Vanguard thing. Shields as weapons was a thing long before Vanguard was introduced and you do not need Vanguard to use a shield as a weapon - consider Wizards, Sorcs and Bards get offensive shield enhancements.

While I would like to see shields included into crafting systems I don't think it is relevant to this discussion. We have a good argument for allowing shields to be Sentient weapons but we have already been told NO about shields in Thunderforge and LGS crafting and I see the chance of getting that retroactively changed at near zero.

This is really about making the Sentient weapon system useful to more people and making it something to get excited about. Extending the system to include more named options while staying within the original proposed theme will increase the pool of people that will find it useful and fun. As it is now, there is simply no named weapon that fits my main build so the Sentient weapon system will do nothing but cause me sadness, frustration, and anger. I don't think I am alone in this view.

Note that I said primarily a Vanguard thing used as a weapon. Most other builds that use shields use them mostly for defensive reasons and/or to boost their general dps. Unless investing points into the tree and cross classing, there is very little ways to boost dps by swinging it as a weapon making it a subpar weapon. I don't know how everyone else plays their Vanguard, but I think of shields on my Vanguard as more 2WF or as an off hand attack. There are only a few clickies in the Vanguard tree where you use a shield as a weapon, but can boost damage and increase the chance of shield bashing.

I'm not against the idea of shields being Sentient weapons, I just think it would be very niche. Personally I probably wouldn't make a Sentient shield.

[Niminae]

My journey through reading the notes:

Me: I hope the sentient weapons are interesting, flavorful, and powerful!
info: ...the sentience is tied to a gem you can put in other weapons...
Me: oh, that's different. Oh hey, Thunderforged sentien-
info: ...nope, non-crafted only...
Me: aw, well, oh! I have an Epic Xuum I'd love to make viable again-
info: ...nope. ml21 only. Xuum is ml20, so no dice...
Me: dang. well, I'll figure out that part later then. The names are cool, but most of the powers seem very generic/bland, and very small/weak for the epic level/end game long term farm I thought it would be. Wait, what's this now?
info: ...augment bags now have a search function...
me: YES! (actually exclaimed this out loud irl)

Pretty much my reaction exactly. Excluding crafted and level 20 items is a poor design decision, since those are probably what a large portion of the player base uses and would like to improve. I know that for me my transition during epics on all of my characters is typically from Cannith Crafted or Epic, to Thunderforged, to Legendary Greensteel. There are a few exceptions, but they are exceptions. So it'll be a struggle to find a weapon which the Sentience system will make a compelling draw to change my weapons use over.

The next disappointment is that the sentient weapons system is just another bit of power creep, but there just isn't any there there. All effects are already in the game, and are fairly minor, and completely lack any real "WOW" effect. +3 MRR, uh, wow? Where is the new, the interesting, the innovative? It just isn't there.

But I've said several times on these forums and to Jerry while he is livestreaming that augment bags need a search function. It's just a shame that needed changes only seem to come about when prompted by other things. Either there is an intern on staff for a few months who brings the enthusiasm and love for the game that seems to be lacking otherwise, or some new system is implemented which fairly much demands that some needed change finally be gotten around to being given some attention.

[Alcides]

I believe that this system needs more potential weapons to choose from. Please consider including rune arms and shields since there are specs that use those. Also I think it's ridiculous not to allow people to add sentience to crafted weapons since crafted weapons are the only good option for certain specs. Limiting it to a single sentient item equipped at a time is a far better solution and gives a much higher range of flexibility. This was advertised as an end game system so it should be the best yet. What is presented here is a step backwards. Also I think nonnamed magic items should be allowed for sacrifice as well since requiring sacrifice of named items will make it harder for casuals to gear up since people will be less generous for the next several months until their sentient jewels are maxed out. Until now I haven't had a problem giving other players who need gear a hand up. Generosity should be encouraged not discouraged.

[edrein]

Note that I said primarily a Vanguard thing used as a weapon. Most other builds that use shields use them mostly for defensive reasons and/or to boost their general dps. Unless investing points into the tree and cross classing, there is very little ways to boost dps by swinging it as a weapon making it a subpar weapon. I don't know how everyone else plays their Vanguard, but I think of shields on my Vanguard as more 2WF or as an off hand attack. There are only a few clickies in the Vanguard tree where you use a shield as a weapon, but can boost damage and increase the chance of shield bashing.

I'm not against the idea of shields being Sentient weapons, I just think it would be very niche. Personally I probably wouldn't make a Sentient shield.

Vanguard should be an universal tree to be honest. It's such a niche fighting style that it's a shame it's locked behind two classes that I wouldn't want to play for a shield build.

That being said; they seem to forget items like Dethik Runestone for druids. Which I'd love to make sentient with an appropriate druid boosting sentient gem. But there isn't one at the moment.

[Niminae]

Hoard tradable loot. : oh you are not gonna pass that pinion to get exp? here is a higher ML piece of garbage from GH for it. I really don't see this being an issue. I don't play with anyone that big of an *******.

I've seen this offered up as the "solution" for the potential impact to generosity with named items that any system which requires that you feed it named items will bring. I don't agree that this will be any kind of solution. On the first hand, "Hoard tradable loot" doesn't work when everyone is feeding their named items to their own sentient weapons. And then there is the time and annoyance factor. Player A passes item to Player B, who is now expected to calculate the SXP and mail Player A items of similar SXP value? In a game where people can't be bothered to wait for a chest blesser to finish their animation before popping that sucker open? (please provide your own dozen plus examples of player impatience to continue that thread) Could it happen? Sure. But it isn't a solution, because most people just won't want to bother with it.