Visanti Knife Fighte

[Raeaddil]

This is my first go at a Visanti Knife fighter. Please let me know of ways to improve it. It's not the type of build I'm used to.

Knife Fighter
12/7/1 Rogue/Fighter/Barbarian
Halfling


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Fighter . . . .11. Fighter. . . . 16. Rogue
2. Barbarian . . . 7. Rogue . . . . .12. Fighter. . . . 17. Rogue
3. Fighter . . . . 8. Fighter. . . . 13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Fighter . . . .14. Rogue . . . . .19. Rogue
5. Fighter . . . .10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue . . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . . . . . 4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 20. . . . . . . . 8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . . . . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . 15. . . .+3. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . . . . .20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . . . . .24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX

Skills
. . . . . R. B .F. R. F .F. R. F .F. R. F .F. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R
. . . . . 1. 2 .3. 4. 5 .6. 7. 8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4. 1 . . 2. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Hide. . . 4. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. . . . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. 7. 5. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4. . .½. . .½. ½ . . ½ . . . .1. 1 . . . .2 .6 .4 .1 .1 .1 .23
Balance . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 .5 .5 . . 16
Jump. . . 4. . . . . . . . . . . .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5. 10
Haggle. . 3. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .40. 6 .5 11 .5. 5 11. 5 .5 11 .6. 6 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12


Feats

.1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Weapon Finesse
.3 Fighter: Precision
.5 Fighter: Two Weapon Defense
.6. . . . : Toughness
.8 Fighter: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
11 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Piercing
12. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
15. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Healing
18. . . . : Weapon Specialization: Piercing
21 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic . : Watchful Eye
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

18 Rogue. : Improved Evasion


Enhancements (80 AP)

Assassin (36 AP)

• Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness
  1. Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
  2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training
  3. Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  4. Execute, Killer III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Knife Specialization

Vistani Knife Fighter (25 AP)

• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
  1. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
  2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker
  3. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades, Dexterity
  4. Vistani Knife Training, Double Daggers

Halfling (19 AP)

• Halfling Luck, Dexterity, Halfling Luck II, Dexterity II
  1. Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Cunning III
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Halfling Guile
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Healing, Halfling Guile
  4. Halfling Guile

[/color]
Leveling Guide

1. Ass0 Knife in the Darkness; Ass1 Sneak Attack Training; Ass1 Stealthy I
2. Ass1 Stealthy II, III; Vis0 Knife Expertise; Vis1 Vistani Knife Training
3. Vis1 Mist Stalker; Vis1 Rapid Attack
4. Ass2 Sneak Attack Training; Ass2 Venomed Blades I, II
5. Ass2 Venomed Blades III; Vis0 Knife Juggler; Vis2 Vistani Knife Training
6. Vis2 Mist Stalker; Vis0 Knife Specialist
7. Vis3 Vistani Knife Training; Ass0 Dagger in the Back; Ass3 Critical Mastery I, II
8. Ass3 Critical Mastery III; Ass3 Sneak Attack Training
9. Ass3 Dexterity; Vis3 Mist Stalker
10. Vis3 Deadly Blades; Vis3 Dexterity
11. Vis4 Vistani Knife Training; Vis4 Double Daggers; Hlf0 Halfling Luck
12. Vis0 One With Blades; Hlf0 Dexterity; Hlf0 Halfling Luck II
13. Hlf0 Dexterity II; Hlf1 Cunning I, II
14. Ass0 Assassin's Trick; Ass4 Sneak Attack Training
15. Ass4 Execute; Ass4 Killer I, II, III
16. Ass4 Dexterity; Hlf1 Jorasco Dragonmark Focus I, II
17. Hlf1 Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III; Hlf2 Lesser Dragonmark of Healing
18. Hlf3 Greater Dragonmark of Healing; Hlf1 Cunning III; Hlf2 Halfling Guile; Hlf3 Halfling Guile
19. Hlf4 Halfling Guile; (Bank 3 AP)
20. Ass0 Nimbleness; Ass5 Assassinate; Ass5 Measure the Foe I, II, III; Ass5 Knife Specialization

Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer

1. Stealthy III, Dexterity
2. Lithe III, Dexterity
3. Shrouding Strike III, Meld into Darkness III
4. Improved Invisibility III
5. Untouchable, Sealed Soul
6. Shadow Form

Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
2. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
3. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
4. Dragonhide (Tier 1 Draconic)

[elvesunited]

I don't think the crit multiplier from One with Blades ( vishanti ) and Knife specialization ( assassin ) stack

Personally I'd try for

Visanti : 41 AP points for the capstone but no tier 5.
Assassin: 34+
Race: whatever is left

[Raeaddil]

Hmm ya that will kinda suck if they don't. I was looking on the wiki but couldn't find anything there on it.

[cru121]

Please let me know of ways to improve it.
12/7/1 Rogue/Fighter/Barbarian

Without looking any further, 13/6/1 would probably be a better split.
7th fighter level gives you nothing, 13th rogue level gives sneak attack and a rogue special feat

[Raeaddil]

Yes one less fighter and one more rogue level worked much better. Here is an updated build.

Knife Fighter
13/6/1 Rogue/Fighter/Barbarian
Halfling


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Fighter . . . .11. Fighter. . . . 16. Rogue
2. Barbarian . . . 7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue . . . . .17. Rogue
3. Fighter . . . . 8. Fighter. . . . 13. Rogue. . . . . 18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Fighter . . . .14. Rogue . . . . .19. Rogue
5. Fighter . . . .10. Rogue . . . . .15. Rogue . . . . .20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . . . . . 4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 20. . . . . . . . 8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . . . . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . 15. . . .+3. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . . . . .20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . . . . .24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX

Skills
. . . . . R. B .F. R. F .F. R. F .F. R. F .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .R .R
. . . . . 1. 2 .3. 4. 5 .6. 7. 8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Open Lo . 4. 1 . . 2. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Spot. . . 4. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Hide. . . 4. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. . . . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. 7. 5. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
UMD . . . 4. . .½. . .½. ½ . . ½ . . . .1. 2. . . . 2. 6. 3. 1. 1. 1. 23
Balance . 4. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2 .5 .5 .4 .20
Jump. . . 4. . . . . . . . . . . .1. . . . 8. . . . . . . 1. . . . 1. 15
Haggle. . 3. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .40. 6 .5 11 .5. 5 11. 5 .5 11 .6 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12


Feats

.1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Weapon Finesse
.3 Fighter: Precision
.5 Fighter: Two Weapon Defense
.6. . . . : Toughness
.8 Fighter: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
11 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Piercing
12. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Healing
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Weapon Specialization: Piercing
21 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic . : Watchful Eye
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

17 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
20 Rogue. : Opportunist


Enhancements (80 AP)

Assassin (36 AP)

• Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness
  1. Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
  2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training
  3. Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  4. Execute, Killer III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Knife Specialization

Vistani Knife Fighter (25 AP)

• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
  1. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
  2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker
  3. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades, Dexterity
  4. Vistani Knife Training, Double Daggers

Halfling (19 AP)

• Halfling Luck, Dexterity, Halfling Luck II, Dexterity II
  1. Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Cunning III
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Halfling Guile
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Healing, Halfling Guile
  4. Halfling Guile

Leveling Guide

1. Ass0 Knife in the Darkness; Ass1 Sneak Attack Training; Ass1 Stealthy I
2. Ass1 Stealthy II, III; Vis0 Knife Expertise; Vis1 Vistani Knife Training
3. Vis1 Mist Stalker; Vis1 Rapid Attack
4. Ass2 Sneak Attack Training; Ass2 Venomed Blades I, II
5. Ass2 Venomed Blades III; Vis0 Knife Juggler; Vis2 Vistani Knife Training
6. Vis2 Mist Stalker; Vis0 Knife Specialist
7. Vis3 Vistani Knife Training; Ass0 Dagger in the Back; Ass3 Critical Mastery I, II
8. Ass3 Critical Mastery III; Ass3 Sneak Attack Training
9. Ass3 Dexterity; Vis3 Mist Stalker
10. Vis3 Deadly Blades; Vis3 Dexterity
11. Vis4 Vistani Knife Training; Vis4 Double Daggers; Hlf0 Halfling Luck
12. Vis0 One With Blades; Hlf1 Jorasco Dragonmark Focus I, II, III
13. Ass0 Assassin's Trick; Ass4 Sneak Attack Training; Ass4 Killer I
14. Ass4 Killer II, III; Ass4 Execute
15. Ass4 Dexterity; Hlf0 Dexterity
16. Hlf2 Lesser Dragonmark of Healing; Hlf0 Halfling Luck II
17. Hlf0 Dexterity II; Hlf3 Greater Dragonmark of Healing; Hlf1 Cunning I
18. Hlf2 Halfling Guile; Hlf3 Halfling Guile; Hlf1 Cunning II, III
19. Ass0 Nimbleness; Ass5 Assassinate; Ass5 Knife Specialization
20. Ass5 Measure the Foe I, II, III; Hlf4 Halfling Guile

Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer

1. Stealthy III, Dexterity
2. Lithe III, Dexterity
3. Shrouding Strike III, Meld into Darkness III
4. Improved Invisibility III
5. Untouchable, Sealed Soul
6. Shadow Form

Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
2. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
3. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
4. Dragonhide (Tier 1 Draconic)

[Assassination]

I think 18 rogue/1 fighter/1 barb would be stronger. You'd really like to take lethality for the stacking +1 crit multiplier. You can then decide if you'd like tier 5 from Assassins tree for assassinate and other goodies, or go with tier 5 Vistani.

I just did a run of 18 rogue/ 2fighter to grab some xtra feats. I took tier 5 assassin abilities, and the capstone in Vistani. It was very powerful...

With just 13 lvls of rogue, your assassinate ability will not be very reliable.

[Raeaddil]

Ok here is what I came up with for the 18/1/1 rogue/fighter/barbarian
Knife Fighter
18/1/1 Rogue/Barbarian/Fighter
Halfling


Level Order

1. Rogue. . . . . .6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Rogue. . . . . 16. Rogue
2. Barbarian . . . 7. Rogue . . . . .12. Rogue . . . . .17. Rogue
3. Fighter . . . . 8. Rogue . . . . .13. Rogue . . . . .18. Rogue
4. Rogue. . . . . .9. Rogue. . . . . 14. Rogue. . . . . 19. Rogue
5. Rogue. . . . . 10. Rogue. . . . . 15. Rogue. . . . . 20. Rogue


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . . . . . . 4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 20. . . . . . . . 8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . . . . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . 15. . . .+3. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . . . . .20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .8. . . . . . . .24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX

Skills
. . . . . R. B .F. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R. R
. . . . . 1. 2 .3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Disable . 4. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Open Lo . 4. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Search. . 4. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. . . . 3. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Bluff . . 3. . . . 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . . . . .1 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .23
Balance . 4. . . . . . . . . . . .2 .2 .2 .2 .3 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Hide. . . 4. . . . . . . 4. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Move Si . 4. . . . . .4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
UMD . . . 4. . . . 2. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Diplo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 2. 20
Jump. . . 4. 1 .1. . . . . .2 .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . .15
Swim. . . . .1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .40. 6 .5 11 11 11 11 11 11 11 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12 12


Feats

.1. . . . : Two Weapon Fighting
.3. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Healing
.3 Fighter: Precision
.6. . . . : Weapon Focus: Piercing
.9. . . . : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
15. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18. . . . : Two Weapon Defense
21 Epic . : Improved Sneak Attack
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Harbinger of Chaos
30 Epic . : Watchful Eye
30 Legend : Scion of: Astral Plane

12 Rogue. : Improved Evasion
15 Rogue. : Opportunist
18 Rogue. : Skill Mastery


Enhancements (80 AP)

Assassin (37 AP)

• Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick, Nimbleness, Lethality
  1. Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
  2. Venomed Blades III, Sneak Attack Training
  3. Critical Mastery III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  4. Execute, Killer III, Sneak Attack Training, Dexterity
  5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe III, Knife Specialization

Vistani Knife Fighter (25 AP)

• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
  1. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
  2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker
  3. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades, Dexterity
  4. Vistani Knife Training, Double Daggers

Halfling (18 AP)

• Halfling Luck, Dexterity, Halfling Luck II, Dexterity II
  1. Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III, Cunning III
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Halfling Guile
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Healing, Halfling Guile

Leveling Guide

1. Ass0 Knife in the Darkness; Ass1 Sneak Attack Training; Ass1 Stealthy I
2. Ass1 Stealthy II, III; Vis0 Knife Expertise; Vis1 Vistani Knife Training
3. Vis1 Mist Stalker; Vis1 Rapid Attack
4. Ass2 Sneak Attack Training; Ass2 Venomed Blades I, II
5. Ass0 Dagger in the Back; Hlf0 Halfling Luck; Hlf1 Jorasco Dragonmark Focus I, II
6. Hlf1 Jorasco Dragonmark Focus III; Hlf0 Dexterity
7. Hlf2 Lesser Dragonmark of Healing; Hlf0 Halfling Luck II; Hlf1 Cunning I
8. Hlf3 Greater Dragonmark of Healing; Ass0 Assassin's Trick; Ass3 Sneak Attack Training
9. Ass3 Critical Mastery I, II, III; Ass2 Venomed Blades III
10. Ass3 Dexterity; Ass4 Sneak Attack Training
11. Ass4 Killer I, II, III
12. Ass4 Execute; Ass4 Dexterity; Vis0 Knife Juggler
13. Vis2 Vistani Knife Training; Vis2 Mist Stalker
14. Ass0 Nimbleness; Ass5 Assassinate; Ass5 Knife Specialization
15. Ass5 Measure the Foe I, II, III; Vis0 Knife Specialist
16. Vis3 Vistani Knife Training; Vis3 Deadly Blades
17. Vis3 Mist Stalker; Vis3 Dexterity
18. Vis0 One With Blades; Vis4 Vistani Knife Training
19. Vis4 Double Daggers; Hlf0 Dexterity II; Hlf2 Halfling Guile
20. Ass0 Lethality; Hlf3 Halfling Guile; Hlf1 Cunning II, III

Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer

1. Stealthy III, Dexterity
2. Lithe III, Dexterity
3. Shrouding Strike III, Meld into Darkness III
4. Improved Invisibility III
5. Untouchable, Sealed Soul
6. Shadow Form

Twists of Fate (26 fate points)

1. Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
2. Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
3. Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)
4. Dragonhide (Tier 1 Draconic)

[unbongwah]

We've also discussed Assassin / Vistani builds here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Knife-Fighter

You don't particularly need the extra feat from fighter, so splashing something else or doing rog 19 / barb 1 makes more sense to me. You could also do rog 18 / barb 2, which gets you Sprint Boost and extra action boost from tier-2 FB if you can spare the APs.

If you're not sticking with pure rogue for Assassin capstone, then I would definitely plan on having VKF capstone instead for the extra atk speed and Melee Power. From my testing, Knife Specialization is better than One with Blades for sustained DPS; but Vendetta is better for burst DPS for the extra crit multiplier. Both will stack with Lethality, providing a strong incentive to stick with rog 18+ builds.