Trying to understand Reincarnation...

[Tyrius_Paladin]

So I see there are a number of different Reincarnations, LVL20 TR, Epic Reincarnation, etc.

Which is one to do first? I assume LVL20 TR back to 0 and run a different class? Or I have heard some players say they do 3 "Class" Lives?

Another build listed doing 3 Martial Lives for 9% doublestrike, what is that?

I am currently lvl 24, was Divine Crusader, now Unyielding Sentinel to crossover to the Martial Spheres, should I just continue thru lvl 30 and unlock all the destinies I can, then TR back to 0?

I am new, the wiki is a bit confusing, so I am reaching out for a newb-friendly explanation. Thank you in advance.

[Fedora1]

The confusion is pretty normal the first time around, so don't worry about that.

Some people like to go to 20 and TR two or three times in order to get to the 36 point build as soon as possible, but not everyone does that.

Since you are already L24, my recommendation would be to continue on to L30 and do an Epic Reincarnation (which puts you back to L20) and gives you an epic past life based on whichever sphere you have 6 mil karma in. So keep in mind if you gain enough xp to get to L30, you still need one sphere with 6 mil karma. That means if you jump from divine to martial, and say you have 3 million karma in each, you can't do an epic TR yet. The requirement is to be L30 AND have 6 million karma (which determines what epic past life feat you can choose).

This segways into the comment about doing 3 martial past lives - it just means that they ran in a destiny that used a martial sphere 3 times (Legendary Dreadnaught, Shadow Dancer, or Grandmaster of Flowers).

Once you perform an Epic Reincarnation, you can begin leveling back up to L30, or you can do a True Reincarnation right away back to L1, so you will start at L1 (or 15 if you choose an iconic) and you will gain 2 past life feats. One for the epic and one heroic.

[HGM-Chi]

Your best bet at this point is to continue to level 30 and get your 6 million XP in the sphere you are currently in to do an Epic Reincarnation. Stay in the divine sphere at this point to keep all your XP in there. Once you do this you will be back to level 20 with a divine epic past life, and can then:
1) Level back to 30 again for anther epic past life
2) Do a true reincarnationto get a class past life (this will return you to level 1)
3) Do a racial reincarnation and get a racial past life (this will also return you to level 1)

Rinse and repeat ad naseum.

The 9% double strike is three martial epic past life feats stacked. So earning 6 million XP in the martial sphere and epic reincarnating, 3 times.

[M0rdecai_QC]

Every time you reincarnate, you gain a "past life" feat.
The specific past life feat you get depends on what your current build is, and what type reincarnation you do.
Each past life feat stacks with itself 3 times.
So, the "3 Martial Lives for 9% doublestrike" refers to getting Epic Martial Past Life: Doublestrike, then getting it again 2 more times.

I find that this flow chart from the wiki helps to clarify a few things:

Note: Iconic Reincarnation is used for reincarnating OUT of an iconic life, not into one.
If you want to go from a non-iconic life to an iconic one, you use either heroic or racial reincarnation.
I've seen many people trip up on this, and even more people struggle to explain it clearly.

[C-Dog]

(Edit - not (quite, ahem) as WoT as it might look - 4 related discussions on 4 diff Reincarnation topics. Grab your favorite adult beverage, and enjoy.)

...the wiki is a bit confusing...

The Wiki often has to build on previous knowledge/articles, so can be a bit of a Catch 22 - you don't understand the other stuff, so you don't understand this either, and vice versa. Once you get your feet under you, it will all come together. Until then...

Each path gives a diff benefit, so it all depends which you value the most. And that, in itself, depends on you, your playstyle and your (next) build, and where you want to go in the game.

Which is one to do first? I assume LVL20 TR back to 0 and run a different class? Or I have heard some players say they do 3 "Class" Lives?

A Heroic Past Life (aka "True Reincarnation", the original Lvl 20 Reincarnation) adds a benefit based on the "dominant" class from the last life. In theory, this makes the build stronger if you're going to repeat that same (dominant) class, but in fact there is a lot of spill-over and cross-synergy between past lives and different classes in future lives.

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Dominant_class#Dominant_class (and scroll down for specifics)

And these can stack up to 3 times, so ymmv whether x1 or x2 or x3 is "enough".

So, for example, each Ranger PL adds +2 damage to ranged attacks - helpful to any ranged build, not just Rangers (e.g. a pure Rogue x-bow build, or a Monk shuriken build). But do you go 1 Ranger PL, and then take that +2 to the Rogue or Monk build - or grind out 3 Ranger PL's to make your "final" build that much stronger w/ +6 to damage?

Similarly, if your end-goal is a "blaster wizard", Wizard PL's (up to +6 spell penetration) are nice, but you might prefer Sorcerer Past Lives (up to +3 DC Evocation). Meanwhile Cleric PL's add up to +3 to Conjuration DC's. 3 of all 3 (for 9 PL's total), obviously, would be better still. And throw in 3 Barbarian PL's for +30 Hit Points while we're at it, handy for any squishy caster type.


(But, hey, if we're that close, let's just go Completionist - 1 of each PL, to access a Feat that gives +2 to each stat and each skill!

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Completionist

Of course, the unofficial Triple Completionist ends up giving x3 stacking of each, to squeeze everything out of Heroic PL's you can - and just to say you did it.)

So I see there are a number of different Reincarnations...

Yes, and the alternative choice to Heroic Reincarnation is Racial Reincarnation (RR). Think of it as a parallel but separate choice when you hit (or drop back down to) Level 20.

With racial, rather than getting one benefit that stacks, there are 3 progressions for each race:

o 1st RR: +1 to a specific Skill
o 2nd RR: +1 to a specific Stat (not a build point, so doesn't count for Feats/etc., similar to an Enhancement bump)
o 3rd RR: +1 racial tree Action Point

These are applied immediately on character creation. As you can see, the 1st time around is meh, but later laps are nice. And 3 laps w/ multiple races can really start to add up, especially w/ builds that rely on spending Racial AP.

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Racial_Past_Life_Feats


Note that both HR and RR give you the +2 build points each time around - 34 build points the 2nd build, then 36 (the max). This is the biggest attraction to not living in Epic Reincarnation land the first two times around.

Another build listed doing 3 Martial Lives for 9% doublestrike, what is that?

As others explained above, now you're talking Epic Reincarnations (Lvl 30) .

o http://ddowiki.com/page/Epic_Past_Life_Feats

Same concepts apply - not every PL is only applicable (or even "best") w/ a similar/related build next time around (e.g. many arcane Casters love Primal sphere (spec. "Colors of the Queen"), which is from the Ranger/Druid Destiny sphere).

Whether you chase DPS or Survivability bonuses is a diff discussion, and depends on your build, your experience, and the content you prefer to run. But if you aren't sure (and you're willing to grind out 6M Karma in Divine), there's nothing wrong w/ starting w/ "Divine/Brace".

I am currently lvl 24... should I...

There is no single "should".

Some majority of players agree that, for the average(?) player, going from 20-30 is easier than 1-20*, so get it while you're there. And since you're already Lvl 24, sure.

(* Natch, there are exceptions - if you can spend the DDO points for an Otto's Box, you can get to 20 in a day, np. And there are "Racial Reincarnation trains" that focus solely on that grind, knock it out in under a week.)

Grabbing all the Destinies on your first lap - that's a grind. Some are definitely sup-optimal while you're chasing them - painful to change from a Destiny that really helps to one that adds next to nothing. Remember - if you max out a destiny so you can use it, then you can either use it or chase a diff destiny - not both.* Get your 6 million in your preferred sphere, call it good, come back and finish another next time.

(* You can add "twists", which let you keep a couple/few specific abilities from Destinies you've attained - but the tree, as a whole, is off line while you're getting XP in another one.)

What you do the first time you drop back to 20? Me, I know I could have made improvements on my 1st-effort builds (one way or another), so I recommend going back to 1 - but most def a "ymmv" decision.


(Note - there's also this to consider: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post4993658

That's old, so some points need updating, but w/ a dose of salt it's still perfectly valid.

If you're chasing some of those goals, might as well get XP in diff ED's.)

[Captain_Wizbang]

Your best bet at this point is to continue to level 30 and get your 6 million XP in the sphere you are currently in to do an Epic Reincarnation. Stay in the divine sphere at this point to keep all your XP in there. Once you do this you will be back to level 20 with a divine epic past life, and can then:
1) Level back to 30 again for anther epic past life
2) Do a true reincarnationto get a class past life (this will return you to level 1)
3) Do a racial reincarnation and get a racial past life (this will also return you to level 1)

This. trys-paladin, this is the answer you seek.

[Enoach]

I agree with those that point out you are in good shape to continue to 30 and benefit from at least a single Epic Reincarnation before you do a True Reincarnation (For class past life) or Racial Reincarnation (For race past life)

Some things to keep in mind.

It takes 8,250,000 Epic XP to get to 30
Each Epic Destiny needs a total of 1,980,000 XP - Maxing out all Epic Destinies in a sphere will leave you 60k xp short of filling your Karma requirements
I point this out because about 200k xp short of Level 28 you have about 2,400,000 XP that could be invested in another sphere.
Based on this model you could max out all Epic Destinies and have one sphere pre-filled with Karma after 3 Epic Reincarnations.

---
Now this is just my recommendation based on where you are right now.

I recommend doing at lest 3 Epic Reincarnations before you do your TR or RR.

What this can get you
1. Access to all Epic Destines
2. Three Epic Past Life Toggles if you pick 3 from different spheres or fewer with the Toggle being at Tier 2 or Tier 3.
3. If you have at least 1,750 Total Favor when you do the Epic Reincarnation your character will be bumped from a 28 point build to a 32 point build upon recreation