Please no reaper experience penalty if you get bravery bonus

[Chacka_DDO]

It is quite simple if you do a quest and you get bravery bonus I don't get why you don't get full reaper experience.
I just want a system that is consistent and easy to understand.
The rule for bravery bonus is already not very easy to understand.

At level 1-19 you get bravery bonus if you do a quest at normal level +2
At lvl 20 you get bravery bonus if you do a quest at normal level +3
At quest level 21 or higher you get bravery bonus if you do a quest at normal level +4

All I want is no reaper experience penalty if you do a quest with bravery bonus.
This would make it easier to open groups for 100% reaper experience.
Currently, the worst case if you try to open a group for a level 20 epic quest.
Only players with exactly level 20 can join you in this quests.
If anyone joins you with level 23 the whole group gets -70% reaper experience but still full bravery bonus.
This makes just no sense at all!
I really don't understand why the reaper experience is suddenly doubled for lvl 30+ quests.
There you get now just plain more reaper experience without any reason.
But to make reaper experience consistent with the current bravery bonus system is just logically and basically self-evident.
I don't get why it is not like this!
And by the way, it would be even better if you give only bravery bonus and full reaper experience if you do a quest at the quest level and this means the normal level +2.
Because this makes the most sense in my opinion.

[FranOhmsford]

It is quite simple if you do a quest and you get bravery bonus I don't get why you don't get full reaper experience.
I just want a system that is consistent and easy to understand.
The rule for bravery bonus is already not very easy to understand.

At level 1-19 you get bravery bonus if you do a quest at normal level +2
At lvl 20 you get bravery bonus if you do a quest at normal level +3
At quest level 21 or higher you get bravery bonus if you do a quest at normal level +4

All I want is no reaper experience penalty if you do a quest with bravery bonus.
This would make it easier to open groups for 100% reaper experience.
Currently, the worst case if you try to open a group for a level 20 epic quest.
Only players with exactly level 20 can join you in this quests.
If anyone joins you with level 23 the whole group gets -70% reaper experience but still full bravery bonus.
This makes just no sense at all!

Signed!

I really don't understand why the reaper experience is suddenly doubled for lvl 30+ quests.
There you get now just plain more reaper experience without any reason.
But to make reaper experience consistent with the current bravery bonus system is just logically and basically self-evident.

Because loads of people have complained that there was no reason to run Reaper at Cap.

This is the Devs trying to make Reaper at Cap viable but not going far enough is all.

And by the way, it would be even better if you give only bravery bonus and full reaper experience if you do a quest at the quest level and this means the normal level +2.
Because this makes the most sense in my opinion.

Uh?

What does this mean?

Why should you get full xp for running Tear at Lvl 9 but not at Lvl 8?

WHAT?

This makes no sense whatsoever!

[Chacka_DDO]

Because loads of people have complained that there was no reason to run Reaper at Cap.

This is the Devs trying to make Reaper at Cap viable but not going far enough is all.

So if enough players demand something that makes no sense they get it?
Sorry but I see no logical reason why you should get more reaper experience at this point.
My feeling is that running quests on reaper at lvl 30 is not more difficult and I don't see why I should get more experience for this.

Uh?

What does this mean?

Why should you get full xp for running Tear at Lvl 9 but not at Lvl 8?

WHAT?

This makes no sense whatsoever!

Of course, if you run The Tear of Dhakaan (on the normal difficulty a level 7 quest), with a level 9,7,8 etc. level characters you and your party should get full reaper experience and the usual bravery bonus and streak.
Because if you run The Tear of Dhakaan in elite or reaper difficulty you actually run a level 9 quest (the normal quest level +2) therefore you run the quest AT level or below the level of the quest and I see no reason why you should get any penalty for this!

I just wanted to tell that I don't see a reason for a complicated special rule in epic levels.
And therefore if you run in The Belly of the Beast (a level 22 quest) on elite or reaper difficulty you run a quest at level 24 and you should get bravery bonus and no penalty for reaper experience.
The current special rule also includes that you can run quests above the level of the quest with bravery bonus. And even if it would mean less experience for me I don't see a reason why I should get this bonus and no penalty on reaper experience.
How much reaper experience I get doesn't matter that much for me.
I just want a consistent system that makes sense!
And bravery bonus, if you run a quest above the quest level and a penalty if you run a quest at the right level, makes not much sense in my opinion.

[SirValentine]

The current system makes no sense, and created a perverse incentive for people with no interest in Reaper to run Reaper over-level. But it does have the additional unintended effect of separating these fake-reaper-exploiters, who don't care at all about the challenge & teamwork that Reaper was supposed to be for, or even about RXP, and only want to cheat their way into extra normal XP by running "Reaper" 1 skull 2 levels over-level, from those actually interested in Reaper for it's own sake.

I'm not sure throwing 2 very different sets of play-styles together would be an improvement.

I feel a better solution would be to have Reaper give the exact same normal XP as Elite does, and the problem wouldn't arise. Those not interested in Reaper can run their Elite runs 2-levels over same as for years and miss out on nothing, and those interested in the challenge of Reaper will run at-level. There would be no more incentive for the current fake-reaper-exploiting.

[FranOhmsford]

So if enough players demand something that makes no sense they get it?
Sorry but I see no logical reason why you should get more reaper experience at this point.
My feeling is that running quests on reaper at lvl 30 is not more difficult and I don't see why I should get more experience for this.




Of course, if you run The Tear of Dhakaan (on the normal difficulty a level 7 quest), with a level 9,7,8 etc. level characters you and your party should get full reaper experience and the usual bravery bonus and streak.
Because if you run The Tear of Dhakaan in elite or reaper difficulty you actually run a level 9 quest (the normal quest level +2) therefore you run the quest AT level or below the level of the quest and I see no reason why you should get any penalty for this!

I just wanted to tell that I don't see a reason for a complicated special rule in epic levels.
And therefore if you run in The Belly of the Beast (a level 22 quest) on elite or reaper difficulty you run a quest at level 24 and you should get bravery bonus and no penalty for reaper experience.
The current special rule also includes that you can run quests above the level of the quest with bravery bonus. And even if it would mean less experience for me I don't see a reason why I should get this bonus and no penalty on reaper experience.
How much reaper experience I get doesn't matter that much for me.
I just want a consistent system that makes sense!
And bravery bonus, if you run a quest above the quest level and a penalty if you run a quest at the right level, makes not much sense in my opinion.

So you want to hurt my ability to earn xp in Epics?

Well not signed!

It's already ridiculous having to get 8.2 million xp every Epic Life without it being made even harder!

The reason the Devs opened up BB in Epics was to allow players to run with each other - They should in fact have done the same with Lvl 17+ Heroics in my view.

Elite+1 for BB in 17 -19 Quests {Seriously, even with Reaper I'm not seeing any more RR or IQ or Druids or Shav LFMs!}
Elite+2 for BB in 20 -22 Quests
Elite+3 for BB in 23+

And yes there's a significant difference in the difficulty levels of Pre MotU Epics {Lvl 20-22 base} and Post MotU Epics {Lvl 23+ base}

[gummolo]

The current system makes no sense, and created a perverse incentive for people with no interest in Reaper to run Reaper over-level. But it does have the additional unintended effect of separating these fake-reaper-exploiters, who don't care at all about the challenge & teamwork that Reaper was supposed to be for, or even about RXP, and only want to cheat their way into extra normal XP by running "Reaper" 1 skull 2 levels over-level, from those actually interested in Reaper for it's own sake.

I'm not sure throwing 2 very different sets of play-styles together would be an improvement.

I feel a better solution would be to have Reaper give the exact same normal XP as Elite does, and the problem wouldn't arise. Those not interested in Reaper can run their Elite runs 2-levels over same as for years and miss out on nothing, and those interested in the challenge of Reaper will run at-level. There would be no more incentive for the current fake-reaper-exploiting.

This is a good suggestion

[Ralmeth]

Due to the general power creep over the years that everyone has access to (ex. random loot, enhancements, etc), the solution I would prefer to see is that bravery bonus is only applicable if you run the quest at level. For example, if you run a level 5 quest on elite, you need to be level 5 to get bravery bonus, not level 7, or if you run that same level 5 quest on hard, you still need to be level 5 to get BB.

[Chacka_DDO]

The current system makes no sense, and created a perverse incentive for people with no interest in Reaper to run Reaper over-level. But it does have the additional unintended effect of separating these fake-reaper-exploiters, who don't care at all about the challenge & teamwork that Reaper was supposed to be for, or even about RXP, and only want to cheat their way into extra normal XP by running "Reaper" 1 skull 2 levels over-level, from those actually interested in Reaper for it's own sake.

I'm not sure throwing 2 very different sets of play-styles together would be an improvement.

I feel a better solution would be to have Reaper give the exact same normal XP as Elite does, and the problem wouldn't arise. Those not interested in Reaper can run their Elite runs 2-levels over same as for years and miss out on nothing, and those interested in the challenge of Reaper will run at-level. There would be no more incentive for the current fake-reaper-exploiting.

The current system is of course also nothing caved in stone and you could make it different but it has some good points.
you get bonus increases with each difficult level by 40% and therefore you logically get 120% at reaper difficulty.
there is no logical reason for your demand to give less or no quest experience bonus with reaper difficulty and you should know this!
But partially your demand is already covered in the current system because you get not more quest experience if you do a quest with more than one skull.
More skulls are only rewarded with reaper experience and at this point, someone who is not interested in reaper experience gives up.
In my opinion, a good and logical system because if one is not interested in reaper experience feels not like he loses anything if he does not more skulls.
And those who are interested in reaper experience also feel not like they lose there gain in quest experience.
If one would get less quest experience on reaper difficulty, this would be just not fair!
So I would see your statement as clearly refuted.

I took the time and extra work to explain it even more.



in my opinion, already the current system is not consistent when it comes to the hard difficulty, where you get full bonus and bravery streak even if you are one level above the level of the quest.
In my example, the character should only get a bravery bonus at character level 14 or below because on hard difficulty the quest is level 14.

For the reaper difficulty you can clearly see the quest is level 15 and the character is level 15 what you can not see is, that the character would get a -50% penalty for his reaper experience.
This is just not logically and I might even assume this is just a mistake.
For the following reason:
That the quest level for reaper is not higher even if the quest is far more difficult is in my opinion also just logical, because the monster Challange Rating and there Hit Points are not increased.
The reaper system is grafted onto the elite difficulty so to speak.
And exactly at this point, it gets clear that a penalty for reaper experience, if you do the quest at the quest level on reaper difficulty or below, is just not logically.

[Thrudh]

This is probably my biggest issue with DDO today.

It's splitting the population. And we don't need that. I very much dislike that people doing bravery bonus are doing the same quests at a different level point than the people doing reaper.

I don't mind playing either. I'm just happy to find a group. But it's very hard to switch back and forth between the two playstyles.

And also WAY too many people don't understand the system. They do reaper two levels above the quest (like bravery bonus works), and don't realize the huge hit they are getting to reaper xp. THey just think reaper xp sucks.

[Chacka_DDO]

So you want to hurt my ability to earn xp in Epics?

Well not signed!

It's already ridiculous having to get 8.2 million xp every Epic Life without it being made even harder!

The reason the Devs opened up BB in Epics was to allow players to run with each other - They should in fact have done the same with Lvl 17+ Heroics in my view.

Elite+1 for BB in 17 -19 Quests {Seriously, even with Reaper I'm not seeing any more RR or IQ or Druids or Shav LFMs!}
Elite+2 for BB in 20 -22 Quests
Elite+3 for BB in 23+

And yes there's a significant difference in the difficulty levels of Pre MotU Epics {Lvl 20-22 base} and Post MotU Epics {Lvl 23+ base}

First of all, you can keep your "signed" and "not signed".
Of course, I'm not immune to criticism in a negative or positive way but I'm foremost interested in Arguments and not in applause.
And I assume the same reasons, that the developers wanted to make it easier to form groups in epic levels. But I have the opinion, that you give bravery bonus for the reason that you should not run quests who are basically too easy for you.
And the clear border is, in my opinion, the level of the quest and this is the normal level +2 for elite difficulty.
If you don't set a clear border you can completely give up the bravery bonus system so you can not expect more reward if you do a quest at the right level.

At the end, you could also say why not give always full experience even if you do a level 1 quest with a level 30 character?
Also, this is not totally absurd because a level 1 quest gives also very low experience points compared to a level 30 quest and even if it is not a challenge it needs a certain time to do it.
Or you can say you get a bonus If you do a quest on a higher level as your character level.
Or you can say you get more experience if you do a quest with less than six party members or solo.
A lot of things are possible and not only a matter of logic.
On some things it also some kind of political decision.

I see the political reason but in my opinion, the clear border for bravery bonus is the level of the quest and this is the normal level +2 not less and not more.
Therefore I would not expect to get reaper full experience with the normal quest level +4.
But I expect to get full reaper experience at the quest level and below.
And I would even make the current system for quest experience consistent.
But of course, I'm not the one who decides it.
And the increased freedom for the possible group level range was also for me beneficial in the past so I do not really complain here.

The current system is the result of some kind of evolution and in my opinion a good compromise.
Just the reaper difficulty fits currently not perfectly into this system.

[Chacka_DDO]

This is probably my biggest issue with DDO today.

It's splitting the population. And we don't need that. I very much dislike that people doing bravery bonus are doing the same quests at a different level point than the people doing reaper.

I don't mind playing either. I'm just happy to find a group. But it's very hard to switch back and forth between the two playstyles.

And also WAY too many people don't understand the system. They do reaper two levels above the quest (like bravery bonus works), and don't realize the huge hit they are getting to reaper xp. THey just think reaper xp sucks.

Exactly, it is currently not logically and also with this reason hard to understand.
I am just one who reads the manual so I'm aware of whats going on.
But the majority is not aware of it, if I see the Advertises for groups on Ghallanda.
The splitting of the already small population is also an issue in DDO you can not merge servers because then the game starts to lag heavily either.
So basically we have to find ways to deal with the situation.
And the early reaper experience penalty is something that split the server population even more than need.
We need more flexibility but the question is where it should come from?
In my opinion, it should come from the characters and their level.
Therefore, a possible way to better the situation would be the possibility to stay longer at a level (no hard cap for quest experience)
Or if one could level back (I call it an Undo function for your character level) if one sees only groups for which one is too high in the level.
Maybe read this and I plan to do another even more comprehensive Suggestion.

[doubledge]

The current system also hurts level 17-19 quests rather severely.

If running reaper heroic quests disabled epic destinies for a short while, then perhaps it'd be more balanced, and you'd actually see people running reaper amrath.

[Mglaxix]

Due to the general power creep over the years that everyone has access to (ex. random loot, enhancements, etc), the solution I would prefer to see is that bravery bonus is only applicable if you run the quest at level. For example, if you run a level 5 quest on elite, you need to be level 5 to get bravery bonus, not level 7, or if you run that same level 5 quest on hard, you still need to be level 5 to get BB.

Absolutely great idea

[Mglaxix]

Exactly, it is currently not logically and also with this reason hard to understand.
I am just one who reads the manual so I'm aware of whats going on.
But the majority is not aware of it, if I see the Advertises for groups on Ghallanda.
The splitting of the already small population is also an issue in DDO you can not merge servers because then the game starts to lag heavily either.
So basically we have to find ways to deal with the situation.
And the early reaper experience penalty is something that split the server population even more than need.
We need more flexibility but the question is where it should come from?
In my opinion, it should come from the characters and their level.
Therefore, a possible way to better the situation would be the possibility to stay longer at a level (no hard cap for quest experience)
Or if one could level back (I call it an Undo function for your character level) if one sees only groups for which one is too high in the level.
Maybe read this and I plan to do another even more comprehensive Suggestion.

The reaper group I run with blows heroic exp all day long in order to obtain as much reaper exp per life. Perhaps more people looking for reaper exp should do the same nothing is forcing you to level up at hard cap.

[RD2play]

I agree BB should be lowered to the base quest level, to match Reaper. Nothing Brave about running a quest 2 levels over.

[Chacka_DDO]

Due to the general power creep over the years that everyone has access to (ex. random loot, enhancements, etc), the solution I would prefer to see is that bravery bonus is only applicable if you run the quest at level. For example, if you run a level 5 quest on elite, you need to be level 5 to get bravery bonus, not level 7, or if you run that same level 5 quest on hard, you still need to be level 5 to get BB.

It is quite simple, you run a quest AT level or below and you get no penalty.
You can always demand less or more but this is the simple most logical borderline in my opinion.
And this is the normal quest level +2 if you run a quest on elite (maybe see my screenshot in this thread in case you are not informed about the current mechanic)

[Chacka_DDO]

The reaper group I run with blows heroic exp all day long in order to obtain as much reaper exp per life. Perhaps more people looking for reaper exp should do the same nothing is forcing you to level up at hard cap.

I know and this is what I currently do I run quests at a normal level with the result I often solo quests on reaper 1-3 skull.
It is nice for you that you have a fixed group but I don't live in this luxury and a lot of other players do not too.
But its the usual "it doesn't affect me so I don't care mentality" and I can understand this.
But you may consider if a change doesn't affect you in a negative way it makes also not much sense to say you are against it.
Apart from the fact that I don't see any real argument in your statement, but this seems to be the normal case in this forum.

[Chacka_DDO]

The current system also hurts level 17-19 quests rather severely.

If running reaper heroic quests disabled epic destinies for a short while, then perhaps it'd be more balanced, and you'd actually see people running reaper amrath.

If you got close to the border to level 20 I see also no other solution as it is currently.
Doing heroic quests with active Epic Destinies is just too easy in my opinion.
On the other hand, you can also say it is just a few quests and you can give the players this concession.
This has in my opinion at least more reason as give just double reaper experience for nothing at level 30+ quests. Just only because enough players start to cry because they think they advance not fast enough.

[Chacka_DDO]

I agree BB should be lowered to the base quest level, to match Reaper. Nothing Brave about running a quest 2 levels over.

If they would do this it would be also better as the current system because this would be at least consistent.
But I see no reason why you should get a penalty if you do a quest AT level and the bravery bonus was meant to encourage players to run quests at the supposed level.
And this is the normal level +2 not less and not more, this is the current borderline in DDO.
And whether something is brave or not is always a matter of your personal opinion.
In DDO this is just called Bravery Bonus and Bravery streak.
I would call it just experience gain without penalty but I don't want to confuse the readers.
I also don't feel like I am a very important person because I just pay a monthly fee for DDO.