Blood of Vol Vistani

[HastyPudding]

So, I've got one more human life to do (racial past lives) and I was thinking about doing a paladin with the blood of vol faith (daggers) and utilizing the vistani knife fighter tree. A few questions:

1. Viable DPS? I'm focusing on TWF, not SWF. I'm not looking for top 5% tier damage or to bring this into a reaper 8 raid, but is it at least viable for reaper 1~3 in heroics? I didn't get much of a chance to test vistani on lammania other than a basic preview of its capabilities.

2. Viable as a paladin? I'm sure this could work perfectly well as part of a rogue assassin or even a fighter or bard (maybe even a monk or warpriest cleric), but I was thinking more along the lines of flavor and fun factors. How much would the blood of vol be of use? For that matter, how does vampirism work in reaper? I never tested that.

[unbongwah]

I've been kicking around ideas for TWF Vol / VKF Paladins too. Should work fine: only real downside is Holy Sword won't stack with One with Blades, since both are competence bonuses, so the biggest DPS advantage of paladins is redundant. But hey, means you can free a lvl 4 spell slot for Death Ward or CSW a lot sooner - silver lining, amirite? Haven't really worked out a build because it seems pretty straight-forward: usual melee feats, AP spread something like 41 VKF / 23 KotC / 13 SD / 3 human, maybe?

[HastyPudding]

I've been kicking around ideas for TWF Vol / VKF Paladins too. Should work fine: only real downside is Holy Sword won't stack with One with Blades, since both are competence bonuses, so the biggest DPS advantage of paladins is redundant. But hey, means you can free a lvl 4 spell slot for Death Ward or CSW a lot sooner - silver lining, amirite? Haven't really worked out a build because it seems pretty straight-forward: usual melee feats, AP spread something like 41 VKF / 23 KotC / 13 SD / 3 human, maybe?

Yeah the only real difficulty I see is stat spread. Paladins are very tight on their stats, so you would have to sacrifice some strength and/or charisma to get TWF feats.

[Saekee]

Maybe splash other classes since you don't need Holy Sword. No clue what to splash though. Going dodge and light armor could mean some rogue levels and evasion

[unbongwah]

It's a flavor build anyway, IMO, so might as well stick with pure pally to max out the duration of The Blood is The Life. Once you start down the path of "gosh, pure pally DPS is weak especially if Holy Sword is redundant, let's just splash something else...a little more...a little more," next thing you know you're playing a pure Kensei and wondering what happened to your deity feat.

[HastyPudding]

It's a flavor build anyway, IMO, so might as well stick with pure pally to max out the duration of The Blood is The Life. Once you start down the path of "gosh, pure pally DPS is weak especially if Holy Sword is redundant, let's just splash something else...a little more...a little more," next thing you know you're playing a pure Kensei and wondering what happened to your deity feat.

This is exactly my mentality. 95% of the time, I make pure characters and I make them work. The only thing I ever multiclass is melee druids, nowadays. Maybe some twf fighter/ranger builds, but that's the extent of it.

[unbongwah]

As long as we're talking flavor builds, I was thinking of dusting off an old classic: pure TWF HE paladin running in Shadowdancer.

Shadowknight of Vol
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Half-Elf




Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        16       +4       4: STR
Dexterity       14       +4       8: STR
Constitution    16       +4      12: STR
Intelligence     8       +4      16: STR
Wisdom           8       +4      20: STR
Charisma        16       +4      24: STR
                                 28: STR


Feats


 1        : Precision
 1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
 1 Deity  : Follower of: The Blood of Vol
 3        : Two Weapon Fighting
 6        : Quicken Spell
 6 Deity  : The Blood is The Life
 9        : Improved Critical: Piercing
12        : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15        : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18        : Empower Healing Spell
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Stunning Blow OR Bulwark of Defense
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
30 Epic   : Completionist OR Past Life: Rogue
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane




Destiny (24 AP)


Shadowdancer
Stealthy III, Technician I
Lithe III, Skill Mastery
Shrouding Strike II, Grim Precision III
Improved Invisibility I, Pierce the Gloom
Untouchable, Executioner's Strike I, Sealed Soul
Shadow Form, Dark Imbuement

Twists of Fate (35 fate points)
Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
Hail of Blows (Tier 2 Flowers)
Legendary Tactics (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

Builder hasn't been updated with Vistani yet, but AP spread would be something like 41 VKT / 23 KotC (Exalted Smite + 4th core) / 8 HE (Dmg Boost, +1d6 SA) / 8 SD (+25 PRR/MRR, max LoHs).

[unbongwah]

Builder updated, so this time with Enhancements:

Shadowknight of Vol
Paladin 20
Lawful Good Half-Elf


Stats
               36pt     Tome     Level Up
               ----     ----     --------
Strength        16       +4       4: STR
Dexterity       14       +4       8: STR
Constitution    16       +4      12: STR
Intelligence     8       +4      16: STR
Wisdom           8       +4      20: STR
Charisma        16       +4      24: STR
                                 28: STR

Feats

 1        : Precision
 3        : Two Weapon Fighting
 6        : Quicken Spell
 9        : Improved Critical: Piercing
12        : Improved Two Weapon Fighting
15        : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18        : Empower Healing Spell
21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic   : Stunning Blow OR Bulwark of Defense
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target
29 Destiny: Dire Charge OR Deific Warding
30 Epic   : Completionist OR Past Life: Rogue
30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane

 1 HalfElf: Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue

 1 Deity  : Follower of: The Blood of Vol
 6 Deity  : The Blood is The Life


Enhancements (80 AP)

Vistani Knife Fighter (41 AP)
Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Knife Master
Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
Vistani Knife Training, Bleeding Cuts, Mist Stalker, Haste Boost
Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades
Vistani Knife Training, Celerity, Mist Stalker, Double Daggers
Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Blessed Blades, Vendetta

Knight of the Chalice (23 AP)
Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven, Slayer of Evil II, Improved Courage of Heaven
Extra Turning II, Extra Smite II
Divine Might II, Exalted Cleave III, Melee Power Boost III
Divine Sacrifice I, Exalted Smite I
Empowered Smite

Half-Elf (8 AP)
Versatile Nature, Human Strength, Human Damage Boost
Improved Dilettante: Rogue
Improved Recovery, Improved Dilettante: Rogue

Sacred Defender (8 AP)
Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
Extra Lay On Hands III, Durable Defense III


Destiny (24 AP)

Shadowdancer
Stealthy III, Technician I
Lithe III, Skill Mastery
Shrouding Strike II, Grim Precision III
Improved Invisibility I, Pierce the Gloom
Untouchable, Executioner's Strike I, Sealed Soul
Shadow Form, Dark Imbuement

Twists of Fate (35 fate points)
Sense Weakness (Tier 4 Fury)
Balanced Attacks (Tier 3 Primal)
Hail of Blows (Tier 2 Flowers)
Legendary Tactics (Tier 1 Dreadnought)
Rejuvenation Cocoon (Tier 1 Primal)

[Captain_Wizbang]

Once you start down the path of "gosh, pure pally DPS is weak especially if Holy Sword is redundant, let's just splash something else...a little more...a little more," next thing you know you're playing a pure Kensei and wondering what happened to your deity feat.

This is one of the funniest (sadly true) things Ive seen here in years. Someone needs to put this in their signature quote.
+1 "Builder"

[FuzzyDuck81]

Maybe splash other classes since you don't need Holy Sword. No clue what to splash though. Going dodge and light armor could mean some rogue levels and evasion

If you aren't too married to the idea of being a heavy armour wearer, a couple of monk levels would work since vistani lets you stay centered with daggers; evasion, a couple of bonus feats which would free up later ones to get the 3rd tier stances for the better bonuses & only a single AP in Henshin would net you that +10 melee power, easy to fit that in & could likely cram in the 2nd core too to bump it up to 20.

[unbongwah]

Yeah for something a little less uhh flavorful I would do pal 18 / monk 2 running LD. APs would be something like 41 VKF / 23 KotC / 8 SD / 3 human / 1 Henshin / 1 Shintao. Not really sure what I would do with the extra feats; it's one of those builds with too many feats early on and not enough of them later.