Why PVP is dead?

[TacoBob33]

It was literally added in the most offputting manner because it was a joke from the developers. It's taken how long just to balance the classes for PvE? And to spend all that development time to rebalance for PvP would be a ridiculous waste of resources and kill the game because they wouldn't be able to put out any more content, much like all your other pie in the sky ideas of how the game could magically be better if only they had unlimited time and development capital.

Your constant posting of "ideas" doesn't help the forums or this game or the developers to figure out what's worth their time.

[Wonedream]

It was literally added in the most offputting manner because it was a joke from the developers. It's taken how long just to balance the classes for PvE? And to spend all that development time to rebalance for PvP would be a ridiculous waste of resources and kill the game because they wouldn't be able to put out any more content, much like all your other pie in the sky ideas of how the game could magically be better if only they had unlimited time and development capital.

Prove it was a joke from them. Show me where they said this. Otherwise, stop making false rumors and lies about the developers in order to manipulate public opinion the way you want it!

Balancing classes for PvE has little to do with PvP.

Make PvP into its own game with one good update feature and it will make money on its own thereafter. It wouldn't take much time. It wouldn't kill the game. It would create a new game for new people, a new game that some old players don't do, and a new game that some (likely more and more over time) old players would love, and it would provide something that the community has been asking for for years, not just me. I know you would so super love to think I am the only one, and your argument would be made easy by isolating me, but there are a forums sections and lots and lots of pages and people posting and expressing a desire to have a good PvP, so you are not telling the truth when you try to make it look like it is just me and you are mistaken when you say it has no value and your comment amounts to nothing.

You are exaggerating in order to manipulate opinion.

While Time is limited, that does not mean everything is impossible.

And you are wrong, again!


Oh... and... I'll PvP you with words on this thread about this topic...

[Tat2Freak]

Prove it was a joke from them. Show me where they said this. Otherwise, stop making false rumors and lies about the developers in order to manipulate public opinion the way you want it!

Balancing classes for PvE has little to do with PvP.

Make PvP into its own game with one good update feature and it will make money on its own thereafter. It wouldn't take much time. It wouldn't kill the game. It would create a new game for new people, a new game that some old players don't do, and a new game that some (likely more and more over time) old players would love, and it would provide something that the community has been asking for for years, not just me. I know you would so super love to think I am the only one, and your argument would be made easy by isolating me, but there are a forums sections and lots and lots of pages and people posting and expressing a desire to have a good PvP, so you are not telling the truth when you try to make it look like it is just me and you are mistaken when you say it has no value and your comment amounts to nothing.

You are exaggerating in order to manipulate opinion.

While Time is limited, that does not mean everything is impossible.

And you are wrong, again!


Oh... and... I'll PvP you with words on this thread about this topic...

Yeah all they would really need to do is open up the wilderness and quests...hey, theres a mode for you...R10 PvP Kings Forest...

p.s. ...basically what I was gonna say was, add whatever code is in the tavern and group PvP modes and make it as simple as check the block

[TacoBob33]

Prove it was a joke from them. Show me where they said this. Otherwise, stop making false rumors and lies about the developers in order to manipulate public opinion the way you want it!

Balancing classes for PvE has little to do with PvP.

Make PvP into its own game with one good update feature and it will make money on its own thereafter. It wouldn't take much time. It wouldn't kill the game. It would create a new game for new people, a new game that some old players don't do, and a new game that some (likely more and more over time) old players would love, and it would provide something that the community has been asking for for years, not just me. I know you would so super love to think I am the only one, and your argument would be made easy by isolating me, but there are a forums sections and lots and lots of pages and people posting and expressing a desire to have a good PvP, so you are not telling the truth when you try to make it look like it is just me and you are mistaken when you say it has no value and your comment amounts to nothing.

You are exaggerating in order to manipulate opinion.

While Time is limited, that does not mean everything is impossible.

And you are wrong, again!


Oh... and... I'll PvP you with words on this thread about this topic...

It's like you have never taken a look at what all they can do in an update cycle, which they need to do to keep the game alive. Nobody is going to wait 1 year of no content just to let them set up a PvP environment that is worthwhile, they barely had enough time to get Reaper mode set up and all that was was a little stat changes and adding random monsters, not revamping an entire empty shell of a concept to make it work properly and be balanced properly. But no you go ahead and have your 2 year old ideals and lack of knowledge of what they can do and keep pressing for changes that will never occur because nobody wants them.

[Tat2Freak]

It's like you have never taken a look at what all they can do in an update cycle, which they need to do to keep the game alive. Nobody is going to wait 1 year of no content just to let them set up a PvP environment that is worthwhile, they barely had enough time to get Reaper mode set up and all that was was a little stat changes and adding random monsters, not revamping an entire empty shell of a concept to make it work properly and be balanced properly. But no you go ahead and have your 2 year old ideals and lack of knowledge of what they can do and keep pressing for changes that will never occur because nobody wants them.

You dont speak for everyone...I personally like his idealism, it certanly beats the jaded outlook of most...

p.s. he didnt start this thread so that makes...3.

[arkonas]

When I tested my server to see if PvP is dead, testing proved to me it is alive.

To say it is dead is wrong.

To say no one wants to do it is wrong.

It obviously is alive and just waiting for a good incentive set up to turn PvP into its own game, still DD, but a place for PvP players to really enjoy PvP.


And I get really tried of hearing people say DnD has to be played their way, or it is anti-social and fetish or whatever.

DnD was about a game where the imagination played a big role and you where not over constrained by rules, but had enough to work out certain problems like fighting. It was a super flexibly game that anyone could do almost anything with. That made it great, not being forced to play it a one and only method.


PvP could be making money for the game. PvE could be enjoying those benefits.

DnD was PvP, PvE, and more all wrapped up into one. It was never just one and only one.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-maker-for-DDO!

I started this thread, I am very serious about PvP and highly offended by anyone telling me I am not allowed to want PvP! I can want whatever I want, and so can others. And we... WE want a good PvP system.

Gladiator Mode would possibly be more fun the questing...

This could make money, and be SO MUCH FUN!

i just want to point out that just because people did join doesn't mean much. sure a few killed for a bit but do a very long time those pvp forums were dead. there is hardly ever any groups even talking about pvp. this is how you know its not a function most people want. yes some will do it but still its only a small %

[Knobull]

To answer the question about accounts and posting permissions: Once the initial anti-spam and trolling gating is complete, people should be able to post just about anywhere outside of Official Discussions (employee thread posting only), Announcements, and Fansite News (Fansite permissions only).

Thanks Cordovan! I guess this changed somewhere along the way (perhaps when my.ddo.com died?). And when testing it earlier in this thread I just happened to pick the one forums (Classes) that is not itself a forum but an aggregation of them, so can't be posted in directly.

Has anyone updated the ddowiki.com Account Comparisons page yet? (This tells me I was not imagining it, and that ddowiki remembers it being the way I remember it.)

Good to know, I always thought blocking non-vip members from posting in most of the forums was kind of silly.

[firstprotector]

All PvP is a place for people that are to afraid of doing quests a place to play. There is no reason why standing stone should waste time even considering doing something more the current PvP system. Buy a training dummy for your ship that way you won't die and still get a chance to brag how hard you hit something. This is a questing game, that is the real test of your toon.

[Annoveija]

we already have explorer maps to look for rares and fight enemy..and you can change the map from heroic to epic for what character level you want to use... how hard can it be to just add the option to pick player against player when you want to enter the map? do a map of 5 against 5 in cerulean hills or 10 against 10 in giant hold (or whatever) let the size of the map be what will limit how much players can be in the game..bigger maps more players... do capture the flag or some other games, kill a boss to score points or something

i dont think one class is much better then any other.. against casters we all have death block items and most have spell absorb items... i think 5 warlocks will be a hard team to beat but i dont think is impossible, i play healers my main is fvs healer.. i love to heal raids and quests but the same thing every day can be boring because the computer dont think, it dont learn, and it dont change strategy.. no two games player against player will ever be the same because players do think, and some do learn and strategy will always change... i think it should at least be worth to try and i sorry my english is not so good

for rewards? guild renown, maybe ship upgrades, enhancements for player against player like ddo do for reaper

i dont see how that can be bad for the game

[Ohayou]

All PvP is a place for people that are to afraid of doing quests a place to play. There is no reason why standing stone should waste time even considering doing something more the current PvP system. Buy a training dummy for your ship that way you won't die and still get a chance to brag how hard you hit something. This is a questing game, that is the real test of your toon.

This is silly.
I googled "Is DDO dead?" and found this thread and read through it and of all the things, this was the silliest. Before this month, I used to play 09-2011.
I was in a guild called the Mature Adventurers Club and we had our own website. We had permadeath groups (I participated in that), multiclass groups, PvP discussions, etc etc. I wasn't into PvP, but the tavern was always active. For years. And the same people who did the regular exploration and questing and raids, did pen and paper, did multiclassing, did PvP. It wasn't one thing or another.

The person who got me into DDO was and still is into pen and paper DnD and other RPGs, but he was so disappointed when he asked me to go into the harbor taverns the other day, and also to try the games (I tried each and no match ups, mind you - restarting I'm at a low level again). We also both like/d Dagorhir/Bellegarth, like the more combat-version of LARP... offline and on, we did both questing and combat. There was no "afraid" of anything. And personally, I was afraid of PvP, lol, so at least from my perspective it's the opposite.

I know nothing about development, so I can't comment on that, and I'm even PvP neutral, but it was fun to watch and it feels like there's just so much less player interaction now. When I mentioned that in the very dead general chat (about how it seemed harder to get PUGs), they said "That's because everyone solos". Hmm...

[Proton]

This is silly.
I googled "Is DDO dead?" and found this thread and read through it and of all the things, this was the silliest. Before this month, I used to play 09-2011.
I was in a guild called the Mature Adventurers Club and we had our own website. We had permadeath groups (I participated in that), multiclass groups, PvP discussions, etc etc. I wasn't into PvP, but the tavern was always active. For years. And the same people who did the regular exploration and questing and raids, did pen and paper, did multiclassing, did PvP. It wasn't one thing or another.

The person who got me into DDO was and still is into pen and paper DnD and other RPGs, but he was so disappointed when he asked me to go into the harbor taverns the other day, and also to try the games (I tried each and no match ups, mind you - restarting I'm at a low level again). We also both like/d Dagorhir/Bellegarth, like the more combat-version of LARP... offline and on, we did both questing and combat. There was no "afraid" of anything. And personally, I was afraid of PvP, lol, so at least from my perspective it's the opposite.

I know nothing about development, so I can't comment on that, and I'm even PvP neutral, but it was fun to watch and it feels like there's just so much less player interaction now. When I mentioned that in the very dead general chat (about how it seemed harder to get PUGs), they said "That's because everyone solos". Hmm...

I play Warrobots when I want to PvP. Its awful, I walk super slow, my weapons suck but are sorta ok, I got one really tough robot that clears mobs of other people and gets agroed fast, when I turn to the left or right there is a programmed delay that takes like forever, I can't jump at all and got no powers, I'm a big gimp that goes pew pew and maybe times the specials. Then I come back to DDO and I feel like a super robot, I can turn asap, jump, 100s of spells, fast with speed boost... I start applying my pew pew (with a sword, even better!) knowledge on the monsters, all that hiding around corners locked up, or maneuvering in total fire, and woah it's working! Would be great to try these new moves in PvP, maybe one day there will be PvP again? There was a time!

[Proton]

That would be sooo cool if there was a PvP DDO version like Warrobots, where you go out to the wilderness, red spots tell you where other players team is, 6 against 6, domination, capture the flag, or deathmatches and finally something other then AI to fight! Those matches are addicting, its hard to stop at times, but I think DDO robots would be more fun to use because they do more stuff! Toss in a reward system and PvP would never stop, I bet a lot of people would take renewed interest. I'd probably stop playing Warrobots completely, there would be no competition!

Lasers? Make a Laser Cleric!
Fire? Fire Savant! It also gives the explosions like Tulumbas hehehe
Guns? Repeaters off course!
We even already got the chain lightning! And then about 1000 other things they dont!
I'd rather get my PvP here if it where viable.

[vms4ever]

I smell the sweet-sour aroma of a necro thread. Start Sept 2017, revived May 2018 and again November. I call for a judgement. Cordovan. Cordovan. Cordovan.

[slarden]

PVP has to first be alive before it can be dead.

[Memnir]

Necrothreads are fun.

[Proton]

Necrothreads are fun.

Posting a Heman dancing with a Skeletor...? o.O

+++ That was just awesome!

PVP has to first be alive before it can be dead.

There was a time when the taverns were full 24/7 with people goofing off at PvP.. back when the game had a massive population because it was not over demanding like it has become. So it was alive at one time, but lack of reward and being confined to the same old little room loses its luster much faster then a large wilderness and some systems with rewards.

Hey, it's working great for War Robots. They got .0000000000000000000000000000000001% the content of DDO, but are making way more money, packed with players, constantly spamming 50$ advertisments to sell 50% of some part... who is buying this shzzz anyways? I would NEVER pay 50$ for half a Sword that I can't even use, but they keep selling the crappiest deals apparently and its working because they got a good PvP system, it is fun bottomline.

PvP isn't dead, its just dead here where it isn't making any money or attracting PvP players at all. It is far more alive online then group cooperative games or solo games, all the biggest most successful games that are making huge profits didn't listen to the people on their forums who said "everyone hates pvp its true" or "personally, I feel special that no one can PvP at my game" or any other nonesense. They'd ignore those people, add PvP, and make money and the players get to have fun doing what they want.

PvP would be a bigger add then housing, an open map, or anything else the Devs can come up with.

The old players don't like it? So what, it would bring in droves of new players like all the PvP games with good models that are still active and alive.

In fact I am about to go log into War Robots again... because PvP you know, its fun!

Killing PvP here doesn't kill it anywhere else, but does give us players who enjoy PvP a very obvious reason to go somewhere else in order to get that.

DDO could be a game with a lot of play style options, but no, it caters to kill kill kill questing only. It could be a better game then it is.

[lillentle]

Wow, that Ser Valentine guy is disabled I think. Anyone can clearly see that basically every subsection of the forums is dead bar this one, posting in those forums is how you mainly get forums lurkers, which are normally just DDO white knights yelling at you “DDO is flawless, if you don’t like it stop playing, just because you don’t like/like something doesn’t mean the rest of us do!!” Which is well, dumb as ****.

I mainly only browse the general discussion, I am actually normally a forum lurker but whoever made these forums did it in the 90’s and they haven’t updated it since, making it SUPER hard to navigate on my phone.

PvP was extremely fun, others liked it too. Just because you think the majority doesn’t like it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be discussed, infact the logical way of thinking says that if we only talk about what we like and we shut down anyone with complaints or sugguestions then we will never improve! Logic escapes some people.

It doesn’t work because enemies stats work completely different to players, even more so now than 8 years ago. I agree I don’t want to see people leaving quests and adventures to play PvP or they build their character specifically for PvP instead of questing, people used to do just that. I don’t want to see the questing population shrink even more. If they could do it so that it doesn’t draw from questing or what it does draw from questing it reimburses because more players come then I’d be down, but I also agree with others in saying I’d rather they spend their time and money elsewhere, BUT that doesn’t mean I’d rather see it spent on CLOAKS THAT FLAP AND LOOK COOL BIG SELLING POINT.

[askrj1]

PvP is dead because DDO is a PvE centric game. There are probably people who like jumping into brawling areas to pop each others' heads once in a while or to test DCs, but consider what it means for SSG to spend at least one update cycle to work on a shiny new PvP:

1) Reduced revenue as PvP will unlikely be paid content, except for VIPs I do not think anyone will spend extra credits in-game to access PvP unless it provided practical returns which...

2) PvP content should not provide practical returns such as stat boosts or stronger gear which will bleed into the current power creep. It would not even make sense to confer bonuses that only work in PvP which will generate a rat race in PvP itself. This happened to reaper and it's real, and it's also why some players have asked for reaper enhancements to not be added in the first place. Cosmetics would be an option, but then you're placing extra pressure on the designers to update cosmetics per season/update, and this has to be alongside creating assets for future content.

3) It will require drastic adjustment of abilities and spells for the purpose of balance in PvP. It makes no sense to PvP if it just becomes a lag race to see who casts gruin faster. It also does not help that much of the basics were based off 3.5e which was not meant for PvP balance. It could mean consistent work over several, if not every future update to keep a working, but shifting balance of current and future abilities to keep PvP relevant, more so than fixing current content.

4) System/Engine could require huge changes over the current brawling pit, if not a complete rewrite, even if the assets of existing areas in-game could be used for the environment. The current brawling pit mechanics will unlikely be sufficient for a proper PvP environment.

I repeat, DDO is a PvE centric game. I do not deny there are people who may like PvP, but in the existing condition of the game and environment does not warrant the devs to spend time on it. Unless you can come up with useful, practical suggestions as to how to PvP can be implemented to DDO in a way overall beneficial to the community and possibly profitable for the upkeep and maintenance of the game, PvP has no choice but to stay dead. And don't shrug it off as the devs work, they're already working hard enough as far as I can tell in creating content in the spirit of D&D to keep this boat aflaot.

Aaaand /necro.

[Proton]

... snip snip

Aaaand /necro.

Terrible way to end your comment. It shows your intent, reveals it. Don't need read what you said to know what the content will aim at, that ending is a give away, I'll read it soon, but wanted to note this ending shows how eager you are to see PvP topics not discussed. If the game makers really don't want them being discussed, they should remove that section from the forums so it is unequivocally clear from the top itself PvP is not suppose to be part of this game.

I guess I'll go play some PvP game now, since quotes like this don't help make this one any better for that! I guess DDO really is a niche game that isn't for me, because timelords own the niche and paladins protect it. So boring!


Edit: now that I have read the rest of your comment I can respond to it.

Gruin doesn't work in PvP setting. Solved. Not hard to program.

Use Wildernesses as arenas. A little programming to make it happen and years of fun for the players who are part of the PvP niche currently playing PvP niche games because this one isn't one.

I guess you are, right... the devs are too busy and too poor too hire 1 or 2 guys to put in charge of PvP and then do a bit of coordinating with to make sure it all happens smooth and on time.

I will never have a reason to advertise word of mouth that DDO is the most awesome game, with PvP, a Catch up to the Vets system for new players, and other important things that make big bucks for big producers.


And this niche of no PvP and endless TRs is getting kinda dull, but to make matters worse LFMs are deader then ever now. I know, I gotta make them right? Help the game that is swarming with people who hate PvP and want me to go in circles for ever? I think getting rich doing something in real life will be more fun then that! I'm gonna go hit some PvP now, for a few quick matches because I don't always have 3 hours or 6 hours to spare running campaigns alone, starting lfms so I get clowns that make me regret putting lfms up, or joining one and being fortunate enough to find some good players to run with (getting harder these days... there was the legend of Xeang, the great Monk of Thelanis, always has LFMs, partying non stop... but Steelstar slayed his monk fun and no more lfms -maybe he is still playing, would be sad to see him go)

So instead, I will go play a few PvP capture the flag matches for about 25-35 minutes, then get to working on me and my RL stats, like my bank account stat! I could be spending that 25-35 minutes playing DDO, doing PvP in a wilderness that gives non-stop queues and is always full of people 24/7, is charging 50$ for 5000 components of a stupid weapon that need 10,000 to complete, and is overall a lot of fun even with the worst deals ever being spit in your face between matches (this is how war robots is right now). I just don't got 5 hours to spend as it is, PvP is so great for people like me who can't always commit to the long amounts of time all at once.

There are way more PvP money making games then there are group money making games... more money there. But, surely that is a bad investment of dev time right?

Oh, should I beckon and announce that my word is final and end/necro this to sound like some big authority that I am not?


After all, what better way to control the game that caters to your style then to silence anything that would differ correct?


I'm gonna go play for a bit now before the long day begins.

[pegrad]

Terrible way to end your comment. It shows your intent, reveals it. Don't need read what you said to know what the content will aim at, that ending is a give away, I'll read it soon, but wanted to note this ending shows how eager you are to see PvP topics not discussed. If the game makers really don't want them being discussed, they should remove that section from the forums so it is unequivocally clear from the top itself PvP is not suppose to be part of this game.

I guess I'll go play some PvP game now, since quotes like this don't help make this one any better for that! I guess DDO really is a niche game that isn't for me, because timelords own the niche and paladins protect it. So boring!


Edit: now that I have read the rest of your comment I can respond to it.

Gruin doesn't work in PvP setting. Solved. Not hard to program.

Use Wildernesses as arenas. A little programming to make it happen and years of fun for the players who are part of the PvP niche currently playing PvP niche games because this one isn't one.

I guess you are, right... the devs are too busy and too poor too hire 1 or 2 guys to put in charge of PvP and then do a bit of coordinating with to make sure it all happens smooth and on time.

I will never have a reason to advertise word of mouth that DDO is the most awesome game, with PvP, a Catch up to the Vets system for new players, and other important things that make big bucks for big producers.


And this niche of no PvP and endless TRs is getting kinda dull, but to make matters worse LFMs are deader then ever now. I know, I gotta make them right? Help the game that is swarming with people who hate PvP and want me to go in circles for ever? I think getting rich doing something in real life will be more fun then that! I'm gonna go hit some PvP now, for a few quick matches because I don't always have 3 hours or 6 hours to spare running campaigns alone, starting lfms so I get clowns that make me regret putting lfms up, or joining one and being fortunate enough to find some good players to run with (getting harder these days... there was the legend of Xeang, the great Monk of Thelanis, always has LFMs, partying non stop... but Steelstar slayed his monk fun and no more lfms -maybe he is still playing, would be sad to see him go)

So instead, I will go play a few PvP capture the flag matches for about 25-35 minutes, then get to working on me and my RL stats, like my bank account stat! I could be spending that 25-35 minutes playing DDO, doing PvP in a wilderness that gives non-stop queues and is always full of people 24/7, is charging 50$ for 5000 components of a stupid weapon that need 10,000 to complete, and is overall a lot of fun even with the worst deals ever being spit in your face between matches (this is how war robots is right now). I just don't got 5 hours to spend as it is, PvP is so great for people like me who can't always commit to the long amounts of time all at once.

There are way more PvP money making games then there are group money making games... more money there. But, surely that is a bad investment of dev time right?

Oh, should I beckon and announce that my word is final and end/necro this to sound like some big authority that I am not?


After all, what better way to control the game that caters to your style then to silence anything that would differ correct?


I'm gonna go play for a bit now before the long day begins.

yeah, like anyone would believe you are not living off looney welfare. Good luck though on programming that best game ever, it will make that whole pvp neglectance obsolote.