Why PVP is dead?

[tom999]

I remember the time when there were a ton of peoples at the pvp in harbor, what happened? >:

and another quotation: what are the time zones for each server? thanks

[SerPounce]

It's never been popular, it's just that 1% of the population was a lot more in 2010.

[Marshal_Lannes]

Poor Class Balance
No Leaderboard
No PVP Rewards
No Match Making

and the list goes on.....

[Enoach]

Hanging out in the Brawling pit was one way some...

1. Passed the time waiting on an LFM they were interested in
2. Passed the time waiting for friends/guild/channels to be active
3. Flexed E-peon
4. Used to rile themselves up because someone 7 levels higher then them kept killing them the instance their feet hit the floor
5. Tested out features of their build

The actually PvP area (as I don't consider the Brawling Pits PvP), including the Capture the flag areas I believe were more a victim of being hidden from view because of the Brawling pit areas.

[Amundir]

Is PVP the new thread topic that tons of people start posting about that ends up going no where?!?! *dreams*

[Knobull]

4. Used to rile themselves up because someone 7 levels higher then them kept killing them the instance their feet hit the floor

I was never really into pvp, but occasionally I'd peek in on it in the Lobster when bored, and this was the fun part for me. Show up with my gimp level 4 character and run around taunting people until they'd kill me in funny ways. It was comical.

[Tyrande]

I remember the time when there were a ton of peoples at the pvp in harbor, what happened? >:

and another quotation: what are the time zones for each server? thanks

Back in the times when you joined, there were a lot of free to play first life players in the harbor, and there were level tokens every 4 levels at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 was cap.

It was easy and balance when everyone was level 4 and can't go up without finding a leveling token in a level appropriate dungeon.

There were no reaper trees.
There were no Racial Past lives.
There were no epic past lives.
There were no iconic past lives.
There were no crazy Vorpal gears at ML4 or below.
Cap was 20 and there were no Epic Destinies.
Heroic Past Lived people were rare and few and did not bother to PvP... they were doing the Scroll/Seal/Shard thingy.

[Wonedream]

In the past it didn't need incentives because it wasn't so imbalanced. Now it is so imbalanced that incentives would work, but we would end up seeing only a few specialized builds dominate the place, and either we make on of them for the incentives or we get beat up. If they could balance PvP a bit somehow, it wouldn't need incentives, a balanced fighting system itself would be the incentive.

Personally I would LOVE to see a gladiator tree where the only place it matters is PvP and the only way to get APs is PvP, but if they did that right now a lot of people would freak out, saying game is dangling from a life thread and needs to address what THEY want or need or they will quit the game.

I was on the brink of quitting due to racial TRs, then just figured my mule alts just will play epic hard or normal and suck, oh well :P After accepting that, they became fun again. I think the most I'd ever invest in them is for cosmetics, for fun, but 1 life builds are seriously limited when they shouldn't be.

I figured I'd stick it out, even if game does worst updates ever. It is too much fun watching it go down!!! And it would be even better to see it revive!!!!!!!

Either way I win, though I do prefer the game does a 180 table flip and suddenly is the best online game ever, with a freaking oxodus of new players migrating in the millions! It could happen, but they need to focus on FEATURES and FEATURES and FEATURES and only by focusing on FEATURES can they create a climate where suddenly tons of people are finding their favorite thing fits where there are also several other things they are interested in, all together in a place with a huge population. Basically DDO would have to stop being about quest grinding, and start being about all sorts of things to do that are DIFFERENT then quest grinding.

Endless killing gets dull.

How about a murder mystery, or something that has nothing to do with fighting? When that gets boring I will go kill something... it would be nice to have other things to do that are not even remotely about killing (I could already hear someone saying "crafting"... which is about making better gear to kill with...).. how about a garden in the back of my house? Or a farm :P (I know, some people are going insane hearing this, heads fuming red... a FARM o.O!!!! How dare he!!!). I don't care, ANYTHING, just show new features, some new sort of game to this...

When of my favorite things about PnP is it didn't always have to be fighting for experience, or about fighting even. What made it so great is that you could do ANYTHING you wanted, like have a farm, a castle, become a king, join a sports team, ride a horse, fly, climb a mountain...

Either DDO will become the game I love, or it will turn into a grind the quest only game because people keep saying it was meant to, and not meant to be the game I love where you can do ANYTHING you want. I will speak up for the game itself, and I will continue to drive the point that adding FEATURES is the real way to succeed.

PvP is a FEATURE. It is a dead one, that could EASILY be revived. Fix it in spite of those who would hate you for it, and know that you are creating a climate that will inevitably attract more players!!! The one's who spent 1300$ on otto boxes invested too much to quit, and think they own the game now, but they don't, so add more features and make more money by attracting more players...

PvP isn't gonna get fixed with this next update, but throwing attention its way may lead to the update after that getting a fix. If they focused only on PvP I bet they could have a balance and or incentive in less then 1 month. Less then 1 month to fix a feature that is worth it to 1% of the population. Yes, this is how big business WINS! The attitude that the 1% doesn't count leads to a more narrow and rigid player base that is unable to adapt, and finds itself only getting smaller over time. When DDO can get that 1%, it will get more then that in the long run.

I put too much thought into this business sometimes and not enough into my own :P I should go get to covering my own matters soon...

[Wonedream]

I am here with a friend who does NOT play DDO, and is from a younger generation, and who has been very active in the gaming online experience. We have been talking about online games, and I thought I would give him a chance to express his opinion on this topic, since apparently PvP is a big thing in gaming.

His name is Sam and I turn the floor to him now:

Asuh,
so i've heard that this games pvp is basically just duels in a bar with no points or rewards, so on a scale WoW to Runescape, ive played many MMO's and can say that i prefer any online experience to include at least a some what in-depth pvp system of some scale of map larger than one room and with as many game types as applicable (you dont have to add grifball but at least do transit, lol). AND DEEEEFINITELY do some sort of tiered rewards and in pvp gear even.
so much can be done with raids and it can easily be made in pvp.

Wonedream typing this and here again now, talking with him about this, I am hearing new ideas that I never thought about yet. A Raid can easily be converted into a PvP also, so it is a cooperative raid only PvE or a PvP version that adds competitive fun and cooperation and team work all at the same time. Very interesting!

Also never thought about PvP gear until just now. Hmmm I think the closest idea I have heard along these lines is a PvP place where you start with now gear and have to earn gear, or perhaps gear priviledge and gear has a limiting score, so that more priveledge means better gear. Perhaps the gear aspect could really play a big role into the experience, it certainly makes sense that it would when I think about it.


I had no idea what Sam was gonna write, but thought it would be interesting to give a friend of mine who plays a lot of PvP stuff a chance to say something on the topic.

[TacoBob33]

bringing legit pvp to ddo would kill ddo. so r.i.p. brawl taverns.

[phillymiket]

There was less options back then and the difference between an average character and a top character was less.
Having an Ioun Stone and a Wizard Past Life made you the king of the pit back then.
A rando in your level range had a prayer of being a fair fight for you.
You could bop over to the lobster, click on a few people to check out the levels, and just jump in.
Now the chances of finding people in level range, gear range, PL range, skill range. guild buff range, etc, make it unlikely to have the same thing happen again.
I think it could be done, but it would need to be organized.
The organic free-form PvP thing is gone forever. (IMO)

[PermaBanned]

I was never really into pvp, but occasionally I'd peek in on it in the Lobster when bored, and this was the fun part for me. Show up with my gimp level 4 character and run around taunting people until they'd kill me in funny ways. It was comical.

There was once a ...erm... "feature" where Arti pets (iirc we didn't have Druids yet) could aquire "drops on quest exit" items and instead of dropping them on exit, carry them off to other locations/quests; then the pet would drop them in the new quest/location when it died (my favoritest "feature" ever ). Unfortunately, when a character picked up said item in the new quest/location, it would then drop on exit from there.

I thought it would be handy to place a few of these ill gained goods in the bank for future enjoyment, but was road blocked from doing so by the "drops on exit" thing. Then I (thought I) had an epiphany on the matter and offered a 1,000,000 Plat bounty to anyone who could kill my pet in a PvP arena. Had no shortage of folks wiling to throw their best at my Pet, but to my (and their) dismay we discovered Pets are immune to damage in PvP arenas.

That was closest I've come to wanting PvP in DDO. I found it quite refreshing to have a game where newb ganking was simply not a thing to be encountered (excepting another brief bug where iirc Pale Masters in Undead Form were publicly gankable), and hope DDO at least retains that much of it's former self.

[Uska]

Poor Class Balance
No Leaderboard
No PVP Rewards
No Match Making

and the list goes on.....

There should be no class balance or rewards for pvp the rest could be done

[TacoBob33]

There should be no class balance or rewards for pvp the rest could be done

yeah that'd be amusingly screwed up. player 1 gets on top of the leaderboard, then shortly after player 2 oneshots player 1 and takes their place on the leaderboard, only to be 1 shot by player 3 who gets blasted by a rezzed player 1, ect. ect. and the leaderboard is rendered a sad joke on the pitiful idea that is pvp in ddo.

[SirValentine]

Why do people keep starting PvP threads in places other than the dedicated PvP forum?

The DDO community hashed out years ago that PvP was a small niche that the vast majority of players were not interested in, did not want dev resources spent on, and did not want to waste time discussing.

D&D is by nature a cooperative game. If a few consenting adults want to practice an anti-D&D and anti-social fetish, hey, I'm fine with that, but can you please do it in the privacy of your own section of the forums?

[totallynotasock]

bringing legit pvp to ddo would kill ddo. so r.i.p. brawl taverns.

You can't kill what is already dead.

[Knobull]

Why do people keep starting PvP threads in places other than the dedicated PvP forum?

... but can you please do it in the privacy of your own section of the forums?

Because the General DDO Discussion section is the only open forum. You need an active VIP subscription to post in most of the other sections, which might as well not exist at all because of this.

In reality, there is only one section on this forum: General DDO Discussion.

[Wonedream]

Why do people keep starting PvP threads in places other than the dedicated PvP forum?

Because people are interested in seeing a fun PvP and it is not as small a niche as some members of the DDO community would have us believe. And, as Knobull noted, this might as well be the forum, since not everyone can access other parts of the forums. So that answers it, people are interested and this is the place to talk which is something they have a right to do. I could ask you why are you responding to this if you are not interested? Is it to protest, it this an outrage? o.O Really? Vice Versa! It is frustrating to see those who share that preference make claim that it is the 99% preference when a lot of people don't buy it... how about accepting that interests are not cookie cut in this community? A community which seems to think cutting out part of its base is a good idea? I thought this was an open minded place where we can freely express what interests us about the game? If most can't access the other areas, can you blame them really for going to the place where they can talk about it with others?

The DDO community hashed out years ago that PvP was a small niche that the vast majority of players were not interested in, did not want dev resources spent on, and did not want to waste time discussing.

Prove it, show me where and when this happened. Was it a single thread? Or was there a bunch of them? Where there threads debating this claim? Or did those not get mentioned to help the facade that DDO community is a monopoly of opinion. Does the opinion of those who are talking about this not count as DDO community? Do we have to subscribe to a certain standard of behavior and interests to be considered DDO community? What does it take to qualify to be DDO community then, I thought it was basically a catch word for all the people playing the game, not the majority only, or what appears to be such due to the fact that minority groups get treated terribly when it comes to things like even mentioning PvP. Try giving the players who like PvP respect instead of saying they don't exist and don't count.

D&D is by nature a cooperative game. If a few consenting adults want to practice an anti-D&D and anti-social fetish, hey, I'm fine with that, but can you please do it in the privacy of your own section of the forums?

D&D is by nature a FANTASY game that does not require cooperation to play. I DM'd many 1 on 1 campaigns where there was no cooperation at all and they were perfectly fun. I set up campaigns around PvP that where successful and a lot of fun and had about 20 people involved in that campaign, ALL ENJOYED IT! D&D was never about a formal set of rules, which is why Gary Gygax included a section on house rules, and, while he did encourage cooperative gaming he did not force it on the population that bought his game, no were in the book does it say you "MUST COOPERATE OR YOU CAN NOT PLAY THIS GAME, D&D RULES OBEY OR DIE" and he says the spirit of the game is to have FUN, if it isn't FUN then something is wrong.

Now for those who love PvP and also love D&D (a lot more then some think) where is the FUN in being told they have to play the game according to the monopolized structure of the "DDO community" (that doesn't seem to recognize them unless they submit to PvE preference policy), and that their thoughts amount to nothing on the topic, and they must be SILENT or be gagged? Oppressing the PvP community and saying it is not part of the DDO community is unfair to those who like PvP. I speak not only for myself, but on behalf of the people who I have seen try to talk about this and get put down for it.

Calling PvP anti-D&D and an anti-social fetish is totally wrong! Are people who like sports games anti-social? It is competitive you know... is anything competitive for that matter really anti-social.. a fetish as you put it? Or does that only become applicable in D&D, where there is now peer pressure to play the game according to whatever definition of "spirit" of the game a majority claims it to be, instead of a game where you can do whatever you like and the real focus as I recall it was to have fun and explore your imagination.

I disagree about what the spirit of D&D is, I can not speak for DDO, but seeing that people here in these forums WANT to discuss this, and hearing that this is the only place for that to really happen, I'd say the DDO community is SPLIT on the topic, where one side will be a majority and another a minority and the majority will try to claim that the minority is smaller then it is to keep things the way they like it, while the minorities will lose interest, such as my friend Sam, who will never play this game if its PvP is gimped. We are talking about an entire generation that is into PvP and also into D&D, but let us pretend they do not exist right?


Freedom was the real spirit to me. That is the main reason I loved the game. I did not have to play according to any standard. That was fun, and it allowed me to better explore my imagination then any sort of formal standard to abide by.

[SirValentine]

You need an active VIP subscription to post in most of the other sections, which might as well not exist at all because of this.

False.

As someone who has never had a VIP subscription, I have no difficulty posting in any areas of the forums.

[SirValentine]

Because people are interested in seeing a fun PvP...

Yes, I know there are a few people interested in it. That is why there's a forum section just for it.

I could ask you why are you responding to this if you are not interested? Is it to protest, it this an outrage? o.O Really?

Yes.

Prove it, show me where and when this happened.

Do your own research.

Do we have to subscribe to a certain standard of behavior and interests to be considered DDO community?

Actually, yes, you do. That's not my opinion, that's the stated policy of SSG & Turbine before them.

Try giving the players who like PvP respect instead of saying they don't exist and don't count.

Haven't done that. I've never called for it to be nerfed or removed from the game entirely. I've never denied it existed.

But it (literally!) has it's place, and this isn't it.

If I really were what you're accusing me of, I'd have joined the voices calling for the complete removal of PvP, instead of being in the, "Fine, let them have their fun, as long as they leave the rest of us out of it"-crowd.

Calling PvP anti-D&D and an anti-social fetish is totally wrong!

I call'em like I see'em.