Purely offensive S&B build

[BigErkyKid]

Theorycrafting here, please talk me out of here.

Vanguard 41 AP
Kensei 33 AP (t5)
Defender 6 AP (can be swapped into kensei)

Why do this at all? Shield utility (stunning shield, passive stun, shield rush) and defense against magic (good with no evasion, right?).

By going kensei t5 you retain most of the kensei's power, and gain a pseudo-SWF with the speed bonuses in VG guards. You lose the stat damage increase of SWF or THF, but you could retain the glancing if you choose to spend in an dwarxe or whatever.

I am following the holy thread by Grail and trying to figure out "for real" whether it is better than khopesh.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...les-Comparison

You lose the 20% HPs from defender, but you have more defense due to the shield, so it might "even out" a little.

Right now I am computing the DPS of the shield. It is a bit complicated since it cannot DBs, but I am going with a baseline of 1 bash per second.

So, would this be a competitive DPS character?

[cru121]

so, shield rush DC for fighters probably still isn't fixed
perhaps worth testing before you commit

EDIT: but you're not taking T5 vanguard. I guess when you said shield rush you meant shield charge

[BigErkyKid]

so, shield rush DC for fighters probably still isn't fixed
perhaps worth testing before you commit

EDIT: but you're not taking T5 vanguard. I guess when you said shield rush you meant shield charge

Yeah, I meant shield charge. If it did work, t5 vanguard might be an alternative, but you do lose a bit of power.

I need some help computing shield damage though, I am super rusty since I haven't played S&B in a couple years.

Do the damage stats / seeker apply to the shield? What is the to-hit? Does the core crit enhancer in kensei apply to shields?

Right now with just main hand attack and without counting glancing blows and weapon effects, my spreadsheet tells me that VG DPS is 77% the DPS of a TWF fighter on single target.

Can the shield make up for it?

[Gilga1]

Last year I played a Fighter Vanguard. I enjoyed it a lot.

41 Kensai, 31 Vanguard, 7-8 Harper KtA, rest racial.
Kensai capstone is better imo.

I used a Dwarven waraxe (Headman's Chop increases the Critical Damage Multiplier of shield).

Very good dps (73% doublestrike), amazing CC, poor defenses (AC is too low to be useful).

[BigErkyKid]

Last year I played a Fighter Vanguard. I enjoyed it a lot.

41 Kensai, 31 Vanguard, 7-8 Harper KtA, rest racial.
Kensai capstone is better imo.

I used a Dwarven waraxe (Headman's Chop increases the Critical Damage Multiplier of shield).

Very good dps (73% doublestrike), amazing CC, poor defenses (AC is too low to be useful).

Thanks for the tip on headman's!

I was going for the VG capstone because it is overperforming (more than on 5% of bashes) or at least it was 2 years ago.

Mind if I ask, in your personal opinion, "very good DPS", as in worth bothering instead of just rolling a monk?

Because we know there are a ton of drawbacks to rolling a fighter shielder (no evasion, **** heals, non of the utility of monk, etc.).

Thanks in advance.

[Gilga1]

“Very good” DPS is better than monk imo. Excellent against single target:
-Lot of melee power: 122 base + 29 (Opportunity attack & Follow up) + 70 blitz + items + reaper. You can easily get 250+ melee power.
-Fast attack rate: Doublestrike 73% standing, 15% Combat Style bonus to Melee Attack Speed, 50% shield bash, Haste boost.
-You have STR+INT to damage.
- THF line + Shield feats

Dwarven waraxe crit profile in LD: 18 x4 (x5 one cut up) 19-20 x7(x8)
Epic Demonic Slab crit profile in LD: 17-18 x3 (x4) 19-20 x6 (x7)
On top high end Tactics DC (fighter feats + KtA)

But in reaper if they touch you, you die… XD
Monks have way better defenses (25% inc, dodge…)

[BigErkyKid]

“Very good” DPS is better than monk imo. Excellent against single target:
-Lot of melee power: 122 base + 29 (Opportunity attack & Follow up) + 70 blitz + items + reaper. You can easily get 250+ melee power.
-Fast attack rate: Doublestrike 73% standing, 15% Combat Style bonus to Melee Attack Speed, 50% shield bash, Haste boost.
-You have STR+INT to damage.
- THF line + Shield feats

Dwarven waraxe crit profile in LD: 18 x4 (x5 one cut up) 19-20 x7(x8)
Epic Demonic Slab crit profile in LD: 17-18 x3 (x4) 19-20 x6 (x7)
On top high end Tactics DC (fighter feats + KtA)

But in reaper if they touch you, you die… XD
Monks have way better defenses (25% inc, dodge…)

I am very tempted to roll one, but I am also very undecided. I play a single character and I know from experience that such builds are very part dependent. Without someone healing you, or even holding some of the packs, you get to soulstone pretty fast.

It also makes for poor solo characters. Suppose you want to craft some additional slavers gear, and it is not easy to get the pack going anymore. You can run slavers, but it is a lot more taxing that one some other builds.

An alternative for me is monk. It has good DPS, perhaps a tad less. With good defenses, self healing, and evasion, I feel comfortable soloing on LE/EE most packs to get loot.

The question of the thread though was whether this can beat a TWF fighter on single target. It might, but I'll give it some more thought.

[Gilga1]

Don't roll a fighter vanguard if you play solo...

I found this old video of LE shroud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcsvF89Tl24
I was playing the kensai/vanguard build.
This video is not so useful (Shiradi Sorc POV), but it can attest good dps (27min55 was a good result at that time). 42 kills, 1 death for the vanguard in that run.

[unbongwah]

Defender 6 AP (can be swapped into kensei)

If you're really going "purely offensive," you should put those 6 APs into Harper for KtA. By disabling defensive stance, you can also use Primal Scream for another +5 STR/CON. [IIRC, they fixed the bug which allowed it to work w/defensive stance, didn't they?] What's +25 PRR/MRR worth these days anyway?

[BigErkyKid]

If you're really going "purely offensive," you should put those 6 APs into Harper for KtA. By disabling defensive stance, you can also use Primal Scream for another +5 STR/CON. [IIRC, they fixed the bug which allowed it to work w/defensive stance, didn't they?] What's +25 PRR/MRR worth these days anyway?

It can be done, but still want to be able to survive 1-2 shots, right? :P

I was thinking about adrenaline shield bashes. Could be interesting

[Fedora1]

so, shield rush DC for fighters probably still isn't fixed
perhaps worth testing before you commit

Why am I always the last to hear about these things?

What's wrong with shield rush?

[cru121]

shield rush DC for fighters did not work - too low.
when lynnabel was still aboard, someone escalated the issue.
they tried to fix it in U36, but someone on the wiki recently stated it's not fixed.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Vanguard_enhancements#Tier_Five

[Fedora1]

shield rush DC for fighters did not work - too low.
when lynnabel was still aboard, someone escalated the issue.
they tried to fix it in U36, but someone on the wiki recently stated it's not fixed.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Vanguard_enhancements#Tier_Five

Thanks!

[the_one_dwarfforged]

losing 20% hp and/or stance completely is pretty huge. probably could make it work for ee pretty well, maybe even legendary. i wouldnt want to be that squishy for anything harder though.

also, if the st dps is only 77% of twf and you are losing that much hp and/or prr...it begs the question of what is the point. random cc is not worth it.

[BigErkyKid]

losing 20% hp and/or stance completely is pretty huge. probably could make it work for ee pretty well, maybe even legendary. i wouldnt want to be that squishy for anything harder though.

also, if the st dps is only 77% of twf and you are losing that much hp and/or prr...it begs the question of what is the point. random cc is not worth it.

I'm not sure stance is needed to play. If the dps is enough, you could even fit 2 piece lgs hp set to make up.

The dps is 77% pre shield bashes and glancing blows. Assume glancing blows cancel out extra effects on the second weapon, which is generous for twf, then you are left with:

- better moving and hitting animations than twf
- can shield bashes make up for the remaining 23%?

The key question is how much damage you can pack into your shield.

I am having trouble computing it because of the stupid 1 second cooldown on bashes. I ll report back on it.

[BigErkyKid]

I am having trouble computing it because of the stupid 1 second cooldown on bashes. I ll report back on it.

OK, here are my final numbers:

S&B poor offense is at around 90% of TWF.

You give up on 20% HPs, potentially run speed, and maybe AC. You lose the advantage of having two weapons (extra effects).

You may gain some PRR, evening out the 20% HPs, you gain MRR and anti magic damage, and you gain stuns.

So up to every person to decide.

[BigErkyKid]

So just tried it with slightly suboptimal gear.

Some hilarious moments:

Active shield bashes do not count as an attack, meaning you can execute as many as you could possibly while adrenaline is active. Very fun to get 15k-20K hits (around 1 second per bash, largest crit 24k) on a non helpless mob. I guess on helpless with sense weakness one could get some kinda insta kills I guess I just "discovered" the best DPS melee in the game? Can someone beat 24000 DPS?

As for the build in general, the DPS is simply beastly. if you play in a good group (current content), I'd go with the suggestion of kensei capstone. If you play Pugs and suboptimal groups, I'd say go with vanguard capstone. The free stuns are very nice, trigger a lot ore than 5% of the times, and can stun ANY mob (undead, construct, and this is WAI according to Sev).

I couldn't feat KTA, which pains me, with a VG capstone.

So a pure offense version would go as Gilga said 41 kensei, 31 VG, 8 KTA. Based on my computations, this pure offense version seems ahead of TWF.

The downside is very poor defenses. Sure, >200 PRR, but annoyingly low dodge, "useless" AC. So much for layered defenses. Without a LGS set and with power surge + primal scream + tensers I was at around 1700 HPs. This is sufficient to play in most content (with >200 PRR the effective hit points are high), but again, the defenses suck big time, so expect to be hit.

I might make a flavor / decent thread with the build if there is enough interest.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

Active shield bashes do not count as an attack, meaning you can execute as many as you could possibly while adrenaline is active. Very fun to get 15k-20K hits (around 1 second per bash, largest crit 24k) on a non helpless mob. I guess on helpless with sense weakness one could get some kinda insta kills I guess I just "discovered" the best DPS melee in the game? Can someone beat 24000 DPS?

i think youre joking here, but just in case youre not... sustained dps is important. on demand burst dps is important. unpredictable single hits for high damage that are also not sustainable over a long period of time are not genuine options for dps builds in real applications but as i said before im pretty sure youre joking here. also, if we are talking about dps from the perspective of a single melee attack, then 24k dps has already been beaten.

As for the build in general, the DPS is simply beastly. if you play in a good group (current content), I'd go with the suggestion of kensei capstone. If you play Pugs and suboptimal groups, I'd say go with vanguard capstone. The free stuns are very nice, trigger a lot ore than 5% of the times, and can stun ANY mob (undead, construct, and this is WAI according to Sev).

I couldn't feat KTA, which pains me, with a VG capstone.

So a pure offense version would go as Gilga said 41 kensei, 31 VG, 8 KTA. Based on my computations, this pure offense version seems ahead of TWF.

kta is pretty huge. if youre already hitting 200+ prr id say dropping stance for kta is more than worth it because it adds something like 22 base dmg and 22 dc for a decently geared lvl 30 pure fighter. 22 dc is utterly massive. also curious to know what the dire charge and stunning blow/shield dcs were.

idk exactly what method you used to prepare and test this character (is lam up? a heart(s) for an alt that was sitting around?) but you should take the same character and the same level of gearing and do a twf build and compare the dps. and yes i mean against a more or less static single target, obviously twf is never going to feel good from the active combat perspective (unless you enjoy a combination of both increased difficulty and guesswork because the actual iterations of damage deal to targets dont sync up with your attack animation pretty much at all).

The downside is very poor defenses. Sure, >200 PRR, but annoyingly low dodge, "useless" AC. So much for layered defenses. Without a LGS set and with power surge + primal scream + tensers I was at around 1700 HPs. This is sufficient to play in most content (with >200 PRR the effective hit points are high), but again, the defenses suck big time, so expect to be hit.

despite the 20% hp loss thats not terrible hp. depends on what you mean by more than 200 prr though. if that means 207 prr then its still somewhat of an issue because in the current meta for a melee like this hp are really really valuable and theres almost no such thing as having more than you need but they need a combination of high prr as well. 200 prr is a good spot (2/3 physical damage reduction, i think you only need like 230 to get to 70%) but the hp would still need work imo. on my pure twf fighter build if i had maxed out my primal lives i would have (iirc) ended up sitting just at 2k hp with normal buffs before reaper hp which i think depending on the level of gear and past lives acquired on the character used should be the same goal realistically.

i would not go for the lgs hp set myself because it costs so incredibly much to wear those items instead of items that are actually good and the lgs not only doesnt replace some of the lost stat/effects potential but cant even offer anything thats primarily useful at all if you are going for the hp set. additionally, and i may be wrong about this since its been a while, but i dont think the hp set items count towards making an ender set which would at least be a silver lining of sorts.

that also brings up the point that while the numbers stated in the above post are mostly ok, how you attained them matters because you may have spent more effort gearing con or flat hp than is realistic for a bis gear set or ignored kta and not had to worry about int etc etc. even if those things occurred and resulted in what is factually more dps than twf with essentially the same defenses if you have substantially lower tactical dcs then i would consider it a less viable build because the only reason at this time to go fighter over say ranger for melee dps is because of the huge cc advantage.

[BigErkyKid]

i think youre joking here, but just in case youre not... sustained dps is important. on demand burst dps is important. unpredictable single hits for high damage that are also not sustainable over a long period of time are not genuine options for dps builds in real applications but as i said before im pretty sure youre joking here. also, if we are talking about dps from the perspective of a single melee attack, then 24k dps has already been beaten.

You didn't get it. I can actively bash 12 times during the 12 seconds of the duration of adrenaline. During each of those bashes I do between 14-24k damage per bash (and it could get higher, I didn't optimize fully). It is obviously broken. The issue is that active bashes are not registered as attacks. This means the count of adrenaline keeps running but you don't interrupt it, so all the bashes are adrenaline crits. This was on the mage cannon of the ship, so I would expect even more damage if someone is holding the aggro and you can get all the sneak damage added. I don't know how this compares to a fury shot (leaving charms aside). 12*7= 84 adrenaline critted bashes is a lot of damage. I don't know of a single non exploit (wolf) melee that can do much more than 14-16K DPS, and this is above that.

So no, I am not getting excited about a 24K hit. I thought it was pretty funny to be able to get ~12 hits in a row for 14-24Khps. And it is obviously "sustainable" on bosses.

kta is pretty huge. if youre already hitting 200+ prr id say dropping stance for kta is more than worth it because it adds something like 22 base dmg and 22 dc for a decently geared lvl 30 pure fighter. 22 dc is utterly massive. also curious to know what the dire charge and stunning blow/shield dcs were.

I am at >110 for both already, when I log I will check. The issue is that there isn't much AP left for KTA. If you pick 33 AP kensei + 41 VG (2 t5s kensei, 5th core), then you don't have viable KTA. If you really wanted the best possible offense then go with Gilga's build. I feel that the main point of VG (for me) is the capacity to stun anything, and this comes mainly from the overperforming (but legit according to Sev) capstone. My impression is that it triggers on 5% of any attack (shield or weapon), which makes it an equivalent to balanced attacks BUT with the added benefit that this triggers a 6 seconds stun vs the BS from balanced attacks. Again, this works on absolutely anything that is not red named.

How much is the extra base damage from KTA + kensei capstone worth? For me, not the stuns. Stunning constantly that nasty skellie or golem is priceless, and I would happily trade it for 10-15% DPS. I know people are using ROF with LGS ice, but when the DC gets behind, they won't have a real equivalent. And the jade prison from monk has a much longer cool down than the free stuns from VG in practical terms.

idk exactly what method you used to prepare and test this character (is lam up? a heart(s) for an alt that was sitting around?) but you should take the same character and the same level of gearing and do a twf build and compare the dps. and yes i mean against a more or less static single target, obviously twf is never going to feel good from the active combat perspective (unless you enjoy a combination of both increased difficulty and guesswork because the actual iterations of damage deal to targets dont sync up with your attack animation pretty much at all).

I cannot roll a TWF now without committing an extra heart, which I won't do. DPS in ddo comes from little secrets. Animation breaking in TWF, in THF, and yes, in vanguard. You can attack even faster on a vanguard by moving around, much like you can do the same with SWF (you get more attacks per second). Dummies aside, I find TWF DPSing very unreliable in many scenarios. Anything that moves becomes a huge PITA and a big DPS loss, I believe. So even if a pure offense VG breaks somehow even compared to TWF on single target, in practical terms I would put VG ahead.

despite the 20% hp loss thats not terrible hp. depends on what you mean by more than 200 prr though. if that means 207 prr then its still somewhat of an issue because in the current meta for a melee like this hp are really really valuable and theres almost no such thing as having more than you need but they need a combination of high prr as well. 200 prr is a good spot (2/3 physical damage reduction, i think you only need like 230 to get to 70%) but the hp would still need work imo. on my pure twf fighter build if i had maxed out my primal lives i would have (iirc) ended up sitting just at 2k hp with normal buffs before reaper hp which i think depending on the level of gear and past lives acquired on the character used should be the same goal realistically.

This is outside of reaper. I had around ~220 PRR if I recall correctly, after temporary buffs (shield bash, sustainable). This was without stance. I think 1700 HPs is decent and you can play it. It is worse than 2k, but I don't think it puts you in 1 shot territory in places where it would matter. If it did, this would mean that a lot of builds characters are effectively there. For example, most monks.

i would not go for the lgs hp set myself because it costs so incredibly much to wear those items instead of items that are actually good and the lgs not only doesnt replace some of the lost stat/effects potential but cant even offer anything thats primarily useful at all if you are going for the hp set. additionally, and i may be wrong about this since its been a while, but i dont think the hp set items count towards making an ender set which would at least be a silver lining of sorts.

I am not wearing the set, never made one. DPS all the way baby! I have the DPS cloak of insight deadly.

that also brings up the point that while the numbers stated in the above post are mostly ok, how you attained them matters because you may have spent more effort gearing con or flat hp than is realistic for a bis gear set or ignored kta and not had to worry about int etc etc. even if those things occurred and resulted in what is factually more dps than twf with essentially the same defenses if you have substantially lower tactical dcs then i would consider it a less viable build because the only reason at this time to go fighter over say ranger for melee dps is because of the huge cc advantage.

It had excellent DCs; the DCs don't really suffer much in this build. The numbers where attained on dwarf with 18 STR, 18 CON, 16 INT, dumping all the rest. 1 level up CON to even out, rest STR. I went with high INT to experiment with KTA in other set ups. Build uses insightful reflexes.

Gear is as follows:

Head: executioner
Neck: warrior focus
Trinket: slavers symbol
googles: int / insight intelligence (this is actually RNG, 13 int, 6 insight int), I haven't bothered crafting true INT googles.
Cloak: insight deadly
belt: slavers (con, deception, stun)
bracers: slavers (str, other stuff)
armor: slavers executioner
gloves: cc dbs, hamp, missing insight str (I have insight dex because this was for my monk, I need to craft insight STR).
ring 1: slavers ring of power (insight fort bypass, quality str)
right 2: accuracy, deadly, melee power
boots: blessed travels

shield: demonic slab (I actually have every single good shield in the game, this is the best DPS by far, it does 9*(3d10) base if I recall correctly)
weapon: dwarven axes, assorted.


The shield, combined with decent reflexes, allows me to cover the 20% HPs loss against magic for sure. At the end of the day, 20% HPs on a base of 1700 (say what I have now) is 340 HPs. They are nice, I don't think they are mandatory. I think that the additional DPS makes up for it decently, at least in my limited play today. Obviously this interacts with reaper based HPs, so the 20% become even more valuable in that sense. But really, you just need "enough" HPS to survive a few hits. No one should be using this as a self sufficient machine of death to solo every quest.

Whether this kind of build makes sense will be determined to a large extend by itemization from Ravenloft. If all of a sudden we get crazy weapon effects a la mortal fear, then unless they release a crazy shield, TWF will get ahead again.

[the_one_dwarfforged]

You didn't get it. I can actively bash 12 times during the 12 seconds of the duration of adrenaline. During each of those bashes I do between 14-24k damage per bash (and it could get higher, I didn't optimize fully). It is obviously broken. The issue is that active bashes are not registered as attacks. This means the count of adrenaline keeps running but you don't interrupt it, so all the bashes are adrenaline crits. This was on the mage cannon of the ship, so I would expect even more damage if someone is holding the aggro and you can get all the sneak damage added. I don't know how this compares to a fury shot (leaving charms aside). 12*7= 84 adrenaline critted bashes is a lot of damage. I don't know of a single non exploit (wolf) melee that can do much more than 14-16K DPS, and this is above that.

So no, I am not getting excited about a 24K hit. I thought it was pretty funny to be able to get ~12 hits in a row for 14-24Khps. And it is obviously "sustainable" on bosses.

interesting. i suppose thats decent for boss nuking in quests but i honestly question whether or not thats actually better than blitz over the duration of a whole quest. personally i wouldnt play that way because i wouldnt want to be tied to something that has a limited number of charges even with a very limited regen, mostly because the regen is random. also that seems like it would create a style of gameplay that is like twf but worse. still, interesting.

I am at >110 for both already, when I log I will check. The issue is that there isn't much AP left for KTA. If you pick 33 AP kensei + 41 VG (2 t5s kensei, 5th core), then you don't have viable KTA. If you really wanted the best possible offense then go with Gilga's build. I feel that the main point of VG (for me) is the capacity to stun anything, and this comes mainly from the overperforming (but legit according to Sev) capstone. My impression is that it triggers on 5% of any attack (shield or weapon), which makes it an equivalent to balanced attacks BUT with the added benefit that this triggers a 6 seconds stun vs the BS from balanced attacks. Again, this works on absolutely anything that is not red named.

How much is the extra base damage from KTA + kensei capstone worth? For me, not the stuns. Stunning constantly that nasty skellie or golem is priceless, and I would happily trade it for 10-15% DPS. I know people are using ROF with LGS ice, but when the DC gets behind, they won't have a real equivalent. And the jade prison from monk has a much longer cool down than the free stuns from VG in practical terms.

110 isnt a bad dc but iirc doing even 5 skull slave lords and 7 skull storm horns if i had a dc in the 120-130s it would fail sometimes, 140 was no fail. given that i would say kta is pretty important though im not sure why you wouldnt be able to take it even if you spent 41 ap in vg.

i feel like between dire charge, stunning blow, stunning shield, trip, and lay waste cc is pretty well covered and 15% dstrike for boss dps would be much more important but thats personal preference so meh.

I cannot roll a TWF now without committing an extra heart, which I won't do. DPS in ddo comes from little secrets. Animation breaking in TWF, in THF, and yes, in vanguard. You can attack even faster on a vanguard by moving around, much like you can do the same with SWF (you get more attacks per second). Dummies aside, I find TWF DPSing very unreliable in many scenarios. Anything that moves becomes a huge PITA and a big DPS loss, I believe. So even if a pure offense VG breaks somehow even compared to TWF on single target, in practical terms I would put VG ahead.

it doesnt really matter if vg dps is better than twf while moving 99% of the time because 99% of the time the things that are moving that you need to kill are trash, and even the worst of twfers should be able to kill moving trash in the content that theyre able to run, plus thats a huge advantage of being a fighter in that scenario: you have a lot of reliable cc at your disposal to make trash stop moving. the only scenario where moving dps would be crippling to twf at this point is if you need to chase a boss that your tank cant face tank and has to kite which is only a small percent of the entire game, though admittedly a very important one. if a vg build is 77% of twf single target dps thats nice for the vg build, but i dont think that thf is much different from vg st dps in relation to twf if not perhaps higher (it could be lower, that would be funny) but the important thing is that single target dps because thats the most important stat for a melee dps build. thats the comparison im interested in.

This is outside of reaper. I had around ~220 PRR if I recall correctly, after temporary buffs (shield bash, sustainable). This was without stance. I think 1700 HPs is decent and you can play it. It is worse than 2k, but I don't think it puts you in 1 shot territory in places where it would matter. If it did, this would mean that a lot of builds characters are effectively there. For example, most monks.

i would say 300 hp definitely can move you to the wrong side of a hits-to-kill interval (move you from above two to under two for example) when you have that much prr. based on my personal experience stacking prr and hp is really important and honestly you almost cant go wrong doing it though i would say that once you reach a certain level of prr the hp actually does become better in the current defensive meta. i have not really been that concerned about magical damage because between int based reflexes leading to a decent save and even a lowly 50% reduction from mrr and a stack of hp either i was always going to live through magic damage or i was always going to get nuked by it with no hope of surviving anyway. the more basic underlying reasons im personally less concerned about magic damage is because usually there are visual tells that you can use to manually avoid it and its also a lot less common. being able to survive a misplay against physical damage is more important because of the sheer frequency of incoming physical damage.

other than to say, if something is bad for monks it makes me happy i have no comment about monks.

mortal fear

such things have always been for losers anyway.