Game Niches

[Wonedream]

Please help me identify all the game niches.

Off the top of my head I see:

Primary interacton game Niches:
Pvp Niche
Cooperation Niche
Collection Niche

MMORPG Primary Niches
Endgame (PowerCreep) Niche
TR Niche
Alting Niche

Other online game Niches:
Gambling Niche
Flash Niche
Cutesy Niche
Danger Niche
Theme Niche
Racing Niche


DDO game niches:
Dungeons and Dragons experience Niche
Heroic Questing Only Niche
Epic Questing Only Niche
End Game Niche
Raiding Niche
Crafters Niche
Static Group Niche
Roleplaying Niche
Speed Running Niche
Race X Only Niche (WF only, Dwarf only etc)
Cosmetic Niche
Exploring Niche
Full Favor/Run every quest Niche
Builder Niche
Class X Only Niche (Rogue Only, Wizard only, etc)
Monster Manual Filler Niche (Monster Hunter)
Pets Niche (Get all the pets in the game)
Soloer Niche
Achievements Niche (fastest completions, highest difficulty, solo's duo's, world firsts, etc)
Economy Niche (try to accumulate in game weath. Start up your own in game "storefront". Farm rare items and sell them at high prices)
Permadeath Niche (I got to ask, what is Permadeath as a niche?)
Eberron niche (theme niche)
Forgotten Realms (theme niche)
Dynamic combat niche
3-dimensional gameplay niche (I think this one is covered )
1st person niche (we can do that)
3rd person niche (and that)
PUGing niche
Complex character niche (DDO is king of this)

(I extend my appreciation and a warm thank you to DDOTALK71 for helping to complete this list. I have only removed the ones that doubled, such as PvP niche, but anything I did not add already is here in this list. Thanks DDOTalk71!)

(the list grows on courtesy of Vryxnr, thank you Vry and much appreciated!)


EDIT: I am not done, I am gonna stop here for now. A little at a time, chisel away until its organized.


Swords and Sorcery niche
High Fantasy niche
Post-Apocalypse niche**
Survival niche*
Steampunk niche*
Turn based combat niche*
High Score niche*
2d Side scroller niche*
2d Top Down niche*
Shooter niche*
Sports niche*
Mobile gaming niche*
"little thought involved repetitive" Clicker niche*
Tactics/Strategy niche**
Puzzle niche**
Word play niche*
Educational niche*
Simulator niche*
Dating sim niche*
Builder niche*
Mathamatics games niche*
Memorization games niche**
Relaxing/simple/short time killer niche*
Competitive Party game niche*
Open World niche*
WoW clone niche*



(EDIT: With the list now showing a healthy size, we will want to consider if all the major niches are there, and which ones are sub-niches, and organize them accordingly. First Ill wait a bit longer to see if anything else shows up on this thread)



I am curious to see look at a list the pretty much covers all the major territory. I will edit this OP to add niches I missed, and that others see.

While not all of these niches are ones I like or support, they are, nonetheless, making real money.

That is the game I play in real life, making money. I do not have a boss, I am a boss and people work for me.

I guess my habit spills over to my favorite online game. I want it to make more money like me!


I would like to try an envision DDO with these niches filled somehow, and in a way that only makes DDO better!

If this can be done, DDO will take over online gaming.

More money means we can get rid of the bugs, ad more features and updates, and have more people to play with.

Niches would leak into each other a little at times.

If the game had a good PvP niche for example, some incentive for a game style that attracts people who like that to this game to do that here, they would probably end up running quests here and there, but mostly stick to what they do.

How could this niche be added in a way that does allows both niches to co-exist?

The biggest niche I see right now is what I call endgame niche, because I see more people playing endgame style games then any other.

How can we cash in on that niche adding it to co-exist with this niche?

How many niches are there, and which ones are the biggest on down to the smallest?

We should be going after the biggest first, and slowly with updates and money made from gains (using this approach and getting population increase) picking up the rest.

It is a game, like any game, it can be altered to hell and back with a good enough budget.

So, the point of this thread is to analyze the niches. I may say I think it is good to go after other money sources, and include that here, but the point of this thread is primary to be aware of them first, correctly identify them, and understand them better.

If anything else is posted digressing from this, I will simply remind the poster of this and refer to underlined sentence in this OP.

Thank you, enjoy DDO!

[TacoBob33]

You try to please everyone and you end up pleasing no one. This game is fine for the niche it fills, if it tried to extend it's reach it'd just turn into hot garbage.

[PermaBanned]

DDO already spent a few years modifying things to try and appeal to a wider audience; sometimes doing so at the expense of things which had helped attract and build it's existing playerbase. The net result was a failure to capture enough new players to offset the player losses generated by those changes. Encouraging more of the same is not going to do the game any favors.

[Renvar]

Permadeath Niche

Alting Niche (No TRing, not really end game. Just keep rolling new characters)

Heroic Questing Only Niche

Epic Questing Only Niche

End Game Niche

Raiding Niche

Crafters Niche

Static Group Niche

Roleplaying Niche

Race X Only Niche (WF only, Dwarf only etc)

Cosmetic Niche

Exploring Niche

Full Favor/Run every quest Niche

Builder Niche

Class X Only Niche (Rogue Only, Wizard only, etc)

Monster Manual Filler Niche (Monster Hunter)

Pets Niche (Get all the pets in the game)

PvP Niche

Soloer Niche

Achievements Niche (fastest completions, highest difficulty, solo's duo's, world firsts, etc)

Economy Niche (try to accumulate in game weath. Start up your own in game "storefront". Farm rare items and sell them at high prices)

To further complicate things, people may be in more than one niche at a time, or change niches regularly.

To further complicate things, people might be casual, moderate, or heavy play time in each niche (or several niches)

[Wonedream]

Permadeath Niche

Alting Niche (No TRing, not really end game. Just keep rolling new characters)

Heroic Questing Only Niche

Epic Questing Only Niche

End Game Niche

Raiding Niche

Crafters Niche

Static Group Niche

Roleplaying Niche

Race X Only Niche (WF only, Dwarf only etc)

Cosmetic Niche

Exploring Niche

Full Favor/Run every quest Niche

Builder Niche

Class X Only Niche (Rogue Only, Wizard only, etc)

Monster Manual Filler Niche (Monster Hunter)

Pets Niche (Get all the pets in the game)

PvP Niche

Soloer Niche

Achievements Niche (fastest completions, highest difficulty, solo's duo's, world firsts, etc)

Economy Niche (try to accumulate in game weath. Start up your own in game "storefront". Farm rare items and sell them at high prices)

To further complicate things, people may be in more than one niche at a time, or change niches regularly.

To further complicate things, people might be casual, moderate, or heavy play time in each niche (or several niches)

Excellence! And noting the further complications ahead of time, more excellence. The better we comprehend the market the better we can take the market.

The first complication will only be resolved b covering more then one niche, or having many niches so when they do shift niches, they don't have to go further then the same game they already play.

The second complication does make comprehension a bit more vexing, but it valuable information, very valuable information and it would probably help to look at each niche isolated and how its players play and support that niche to answer this question.

The list you have provided is wonderful, covering many different aspects that appeal to different people.

Thank you and +++ from me. I will edit the OP to include those, but make sure you get the credit for adding your observations here, thus making this work easier.

[TacoBob33]

/rolls bluff check.....failed on a 1, crit failure.

[Wonedream]

DDO already spent a few years modifying things to try and appeal to a wider audience; sometimes doing so at the expense of things which had helped attract and build it's existing playerbase. The net result was a failure to capture enough new players to offset the player losses generated by those changes. Encouraging more of the same is not going to do the game any favors.

Since this thread is Niche talk, please explain using examples of what niches they tried to tackle and a more detailed explanation of what happened. Just trying to change things with no aim, no master plan or strategy, but just trying to make them better... without a clear object outside this does not add up to attempting to open the game up to fill another niche.

DDOTalk brought up a bunch of niches, and this game already covers some of them, but could greatly improve.

It has a meebly cosmetic niche... there are other games with cosmetic niches excelling this. But is it worth it to go after that niche right now, or is there another one more profitable. Just making the game better for those who already play it will keep them paying, but it won't open up niches for new customers, and thus will constrain growth and constrain this game into a decline.

I am using the cosmetic niche as an example to illustrate my point better, not suggesting it should be the next niche DDO tries to improve upon. We need to know all the niches first. The list is getting better, I still feel it has not covered all the major territory, but it is getting there.

Back to you answer and my question, which, if any, niches where involved in previous attempts to improve the game? Or where there no niches being approached in the planning process, and instead it was to just improve on the primary niche and perhaps a few of the minor niches (undeveloped niches) within this game.

[vryxnr]

Are we talking about niches that exist in DDO already, or all niches that apply to games in general?

Either way, here are some more. Some apply to DDO, other do not. While it has already been noted that there is some overlap and it's possible to be more than one niche at once, some niches also do not play well with others. I will make those I think do not really apply to DDO specifically with an *. ** for those that DDO has small elements of but are only a small part of the experience and not a potential primary focus fr potential players (ie: there are puzzle elements in DDO (tile puzzles, lights out, etc) but DDO is not a "puzzle game" as it were).

D&D niche
Eberron niche (yes, specific campaign settings adds so much that it does create it's own niche. Dark Sun is very different from Dragonlance, for example)
Forgotten Realms niche
Dynamic combat niche
3-dimensional gameplay niche
1st person niche
3rd person niche
PUGing niche
Complex character niche
Swords and Sorcery niche
High Fantasy niche
Post-Apocalypse niche**
Survival niche*
Steampunk niche*
Turn based combat niche*
High Score niche*
2d Side scroller niche*
2d Top Down niche*
Shooter niche*
Sports niche*
Mobile gaming niche*
"little thought involved repetitive" Clicker niche*
Tactics/Strategy niche**
Puzzle niche**
Word play niche*
Educational niche*
Simulator niche*
Dating sim niche*
Builder niche*
Mathamatics games niche*
Memorization games niche**
Relaxing/simple/short time killer niche*
Competitive Party game niche*
Open World niche*
WoW clone niche*
...and so many more.

As for Permadeath, while the game itself does not enforce it and doesn't have a "permadeath" setting, there is a permadeath community here playing DDO, it is self imposed rules on how to approach gameplay, and DDO allows for such player flexibility in how to approach gameplay. It is a niche audience that are able to enjoy that niche style of gameplay through DDO. Much in the same way Thematic characters are niche and still included. They may not be the strongeest, but there is enough flexibility that one can pick a theme for their character and build towards it via skills/abilities/gear/etc. It's not mandatory, it's not enforced by the game, but it is an option that is controlled by the player and available for them to explore.

As for some of the other niches listed, I included them right away regardless of if your original intent was for DDO only or for all, because one of your intents does appear to be to make the game inviting to new/fresh blood (which I sully support), but some people do not look into DDO because they exist in those other niches and choose games that appeal to them instead, and some of them don't really work with DDO, and could even turn away many because they are personally against said niches. Trying to appeal to them all has, historically, created **** games that no one enjoys. Sometimes a person is in the mood for a specific type of game, and not in the mood for another. A game that is both will more often than naught simply be ignored. The fact that DDO is NOT a WoW clone (despite it also being an old game but has a much much much larger player base and income and budget) is one of DDO's appeals imo. I'm glad it's different. It gives us players options in our game selection that has actual value/meaning.

[vryxnr]

A few of the things that initially drew me personally to DDO were the following (some of these - imo sadly - no longer apply)

• It's based on D&D
• It's in Eberron (was getting sick of FR and Eberron felt more like GH with a bit of a techie twist)
• Relatively free character customization options in the D&D style, including the freedom to make thematic characters
• Dynamic combat
• 3d world
• Free to play with the option to pay or earn points via in game playing
• Rogues actually mattered! (traps used to be much deadlier)
• Humorous quirks (DDO Kobolds, Broccoli vs Beholders, Tasty Ham!)
• Graphics were good/enjoyable without being hyper realistic, which IMO works well for D&D and avoids the "uncanny valley"
• Environment/Terrain mattered in combat (enemies used to not be able to walk into you, so choke points were a thing. Using terrain to your advantage is still a thing, but to a lesser extent than it used to be imo)
• Solo play was always an option but group play was encouraged more (while this ties into the Rogues actually mattered point, this deserves an extra mention due to the ad campaigns that exists back in the day). Doing something solo was a challenge and an accomplishment, worthy of praise, not the norm.

The gradual changes made to try to appeal to a larger audience removed several of these features. DDO is still D&D, but the D&D elements it was based on have been greatly diluted with new DDO unique mechanics and generic MMO style changes. Eberron content barely gets any love anymore, so instead of exploring a new world few people have prior knowledge of, they are creating 'new' content from worlds that most people already know very well. Yeah, I'm looking forwards to what they do with Ravenloft, but I'm also sad that Eberron is being forgotten (I felt the same way when they brought FR into the mix. I enjoy it, but I wish we could explore more of the unknowns of Eberron as well). Solo friendly games are generally more popular than group reliant co-op games, so there was a shift to make DDO more solo friendly. Rogues became a joke, and everyone could heal. Classes - while still unique and offering their own contributions - became less relevant overall. Don't get me wrong, it was NOT perfect back then, but neither is it perfect now. Some people loved the changes, others hated them. Recently, the pendulum has swung a bit in the other direction with Reaper being in part (not wholly, but only in part) to incentivize grouping once again, but most of the group happy people already left due to the "dumbing down" of things to make it all solo friendly. Some of them have returned to check out reaper. Some were happy, others not and left again.

These are only a few small examples. All of them however were attempt to make the game appeal to a larger audience/include more gaming niches into the DDO umbrella. Some of them made the game (subjectively) better, others made it (subjectively) worse.

[Wonedream]

Vry, first let us just look at all we can see.

Then let us look at feasibility of each niche.

Then let us look at compatibility of each niche to DDO.

Then let us look at the immediate volume of work it appears to be to add giving niche.

Then let us consider how to fit it into the game without disturbing the niches already intact.

In this way we can succeed where others have failed. Not everyone gets rich, but some do. It is important to understand why if you plan to be rich, but not important at all if you have no such plan. In the same way, not all games succeed at what they try to achieve. This does not mean it can't be done, but that it wasn't done right, lacked continuity, and was ackward or lacking good content. A game made of boring games will surely fail. A game made of great games dominates the market.

We are still on the first part, just trying to see what is there. I think the list is almost ready, Ill look it over and add your observations to the OP now. Maybe in a day or two we can safely start to access each niche.


A good lesson to also learn is the panda niche. It hurt Wow a lot. So, indiscriminately adding niches that don't FIT in is to be avoided. The trick is to add niches smoothly, so that they compliment the game while adding more to do, instead of niches that will immediately alter the entire environment and saturate it with a bunch of pandas.

Thus, adding niches should not alter or warp existing niches. This is NOT smooth addition, it is clumsy and poor strategy. It is subtracting from the original niche, which is to be avoided within a certain degree of reason.

Adding say, collectable cards in DDO would not subtract or alter the original niche. Cards would be useless in fights, but useful in card matches. Card players playing DDO would not really interfere with TR PL hunters trying to polish off their toon. If anything, it would be a little side fun for the TR niche to play cards every now and then, but rarely, while vice versa with the card players. Collectible card games, by the way, I have seen these things make gwapo...

I am a business man, this is how I think. My thinking extends to one of my favorite hobbies, one that eats up more time then I should allow, but I learn a lot from this game, from these forums, and do enjoy being here.

I am wondering what would this great game look like with a big time budget? I want to find out!

[vryxnr]

One niche I completely forgot about is speed running. It's much more prevalent in other games (and there are healthy speed running communities out there), but DDO has a few people who apply speed running tactics to DDO. Some of the posts in the achievements section is about "fastest completion" of specific quests and specific difficulties.

While I don't think SSG needs to do much to facilitate the speed running niche, there have been a few suggestions of late in other threads that would contribute to those interested in speed running as well as the general populace, such as those quests with timed waves and no option to call in the next wave early (Devil's Assault for example, has no method of calling the next wave if you killed the previous one quickly, while Waking the Beast/Breaking the Ranks does have a mechanic to call the next wave, along with an optional xp boost for doing so).

[TacoBob33]

"We are now the Knights who say Niche!"

[janave]

Stealth,
Minimal kill,
Pacifist.

There is maybe one or two quests that support this play-style, 3 classes with at least one PRE dedicated to it, and they re the most fun i managed to have. Most of the game mechanics are in place to support it, close to playable with a moderate tweak.

Only needs more instances taking it into consideration.

The only down is that the play style is difficult to coordinate in multiplayer.

[MacRighteous]

You forgot the Forum:
pretend you are a market analyst guru who can single handedly save the game because your limited intuition lets you believe that you know better than SSG without ever seeing any real hard financial figures or player data which does not matter because even though you claim to be speaking for those without a voice you really are only promoting your own preferences and bad ideas because nobody will ever play with you for very long unless you force them - niche...

/Mac

[psykopeta]

You forgot the Forum:
pretend you are a market analyst guru who can single handedly save the game because your limited intuition lets you believe that you know better than SSG without ever seeing any real hard financial figures or player data which does not matter because even though you claim to be speaking for those without a voice you really are only promoting your own preferences and bad ideas because nobody will ever play with you for very long unless you force them - niche...

/Mac

also the whinerniche
the it's ruining my fun niche
the i will leave that game if you don't do that niche
the i know a lot of players who left due that niche

forum has lots and lots of niche archetypes

[Captain_Wizbang]

This thread is a waste of bandwidth.

[Lycurgus]

Since this thread is Niche talk, please explain using examples of what niches they tried to tackle and a more detailed explanation of what happened.

To help in your research:

How to compete with other MMO's
Whats keeping me from coming back, and what would bring me and a lot of others back
WoW vs DDO - What we can do to improve?
Reasons why ddo lost its shine
wow vs. DDO advertising
How can we overcome resistance to making the game more fun not more difficult?
An idea to get players who left to come back and help close the gap between players.

It's Time to Consider Full Respec Mechanisms, Turbine
Make Reincarnating Easier, Not Harder
XP required for reincarnates needs to be lowered
Suggestion for new Reincarnation option: Change RACE!
DDOGamer:New Reincarnation Design Is a Win For Everyone
GetRid of Heroic True Reincarnation Just Have True Reincarnation at Level 28 Cap
Epic TR sytem needs Rebalanced
Please add a way to progress while max level (currently 28)
Riencarnation? more like Riencar-nuisance
Do I have to reincarnate to be effective in epics?
TRing,Just what is the Point?
Are3+ TR lives worth the trouble?
Serious Discussion on Past life feats revamp.
How to revamp past life feats neatly
Player's Choice Design: Support a better system for Epic Destiny True Reincarnation
People dont do anything outside xp grind
The TR comparison myth
first lifers - veterans balance idea

The game, btw, is too easy....

Anyone else getting bored with Easy Buttons?
EasyButton ... That was Easy
DDO is getting too easy?
Game is becoming far too easy
The game is too easy after update?
Raise the difficulty?
Epic levels are too powerful, game is too easy, needs removing

except when it's not.

Too Hard!!!
Traps doing redonkulous damage on elite
The Death of This Game
Newer players finding game very difficult
Game Harder than needs to be

Yayyy, a raiding endgame!!!!

New raid loot mechanic worse than before
20th raid rewards = sadness
Is turbines goal to make things so unenjoyable that we stop playing?
Not playing the game due to raid lockouts = playing another game
What's happened to raiding?
Raiding:So this is supposed to be fun?
Can we go ahead and admit that the U11 raid revamps were a failure?
Death of the Raids - Time for a Fix
Raids are boring
Raids need a new direction in this game.
Raids,how to make them fun
Are raids not being run?
Quite honestly the worst raid every envisioned by man

At least there's some kind of endgame...

Realistic Endgame Needs.
What to do in the "Endgame"
Suggestion for new endgame
Devs:What happened to my End Game?
What Turbine needs to do in order to save DDO from ruin
Say No to Epic True Reincarnation and Yes to an Epic End Game
What Would a good Endgame look like?
Yes,It is another 'End Game' thread - this time with proposed solution
Endgame!
Solo Elite Hox!!!

[Sam-u-r-eye]

niche listing niche

nice niche

Nietzsche would approve this nichage.

[Lycurgus]

niche listing niche

nice niche

Nietzsche would approve this nichage.

He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster.

[Riddle_of_Steel]

I think the biggest niche by far in the game is the

"Don't give a flying fairy fart about your stupid niches I just play and have fun" niche