Why play a melee character at all?

[cryalotmaster]

They should have nerfed all toons and made old content harder instead this bs reaper thing.

[PermaBanned]

For me, a happy compromise between zero power rewards (I'm too pragmatic to actually have expected that ) and these ***? power rewards would've been just the additional Reaper item boosts. XP payout should be equal to a 5 stack Elite Streak (not stacking with, just equating regardless of a character's actual/lack of Elite Streak). Perhaps an honest (all be it minor) additional chance for Tomes & such. Keep the slider for stat bloat range from "pretty tough" {vs 1x Heroic Completionist + 1x Epic Completionist} to past Rediculous upto "Strait to Plaid!" 'cause... Why not? No or nominal loot% type bonus/increases, really just for kicks at that point

That's if it were up to me...

And I think enough others would've felt sufficiently incentivized/rewarded without it becoming the new Normal foisted upon those who didn't/don't want it; and with no need for the heap of character {HP!} stat bloat Tree bs practically auto granted on the side.

[Yamani]

They should have nerfed all toons and made old content harder instead this bs reaper thing.

Feeling like im missing something important for this post. But isn't that exactly what reaper did?

[whoolsey]

Feeling like im missing something important for this post. But isn't that exactly what reaper did?

No, reaper is a setting where many people circomvent the dificulty by not getting hit in melee and where a grindy system of power creep was intreduced that invalidates said reaper dificulty more for some classes then others.

I think he refers to a more balanced gameplay.

[Pyed-Pyper]

Feeling like im missing something important for this post. But isn't that exactly what reaper did?

Reaper invalidated some builds and some play styles while (unequally) handicapping others and added a whole lot of grind-for-power creep (mostly with the trees).

Reaper is a used soiled bandage slapped on a festering wound. A soiled used bandage that wasn't free.

[Yamani]

Reaper invalidated some builds and some play styles while (unequally) handicapping others and added a whole lot of grind-for-power creep (mostly with the trees).

Reaper is a used soiled bandage slapped on a festering wound. A soiled used bandage that wasn't free.

Player mentality invalidated, or legit broke the build invalidated? There is a difference. I'll give an example: This forum thinking melee's are unplayable now is player mentality. While handwraps not counting as two weapon fighting for enhancements is broken build.

[Niminae]

Reaper invalidated some builds and some play styles while (unequally) handicapping others and added a whole lot of grind-for-power creep (mostly with the trees).

Reaper is a used soiled bandage slapped on a festering wound. A soiled used bandage that wasn't free.

I missed the part where I had to pay anything to play in reaper mode.

[Pyed-Pyper]

I missed the part where I had to pay anything to play in reaper mode.

Not everything that costs costs money. However, if that doesn't help, I can spend some time explaining metaphors. Just let me know, I'm here to help.

[AzureDragonas]

Reaper invalidated some builds and some play styles while (unequally) handicapping others and added a whole lot of grind-for-power creep (mostly with the trees).

Reaper is a used soiled bandage slapped on a festering wound. A soiled used bandage that wasn't free.

So bad builds fails and good ones shines even brighter? Sounds fine to me. For heroic content did R4-r7 with static group of tank cleric, kensei and warcahnter and haven't got issues there. I find more troublesome when good reaper players at 20 are having twice or trice hp of capped players even in non reaper content, or how many ppl still don't bother to invest neither to prr or hamp and instead blame game for their shortcomings.

[Pyed-Pyper]

Player mentality invalidated, or legit broke the build invalidated? There is a difference. I'll give an example: This forum thinking melee's are unplayable now is player mentality. While handwraps not counting as two weapon fighting for enhancements is broken build.

I don't care to play melee or stealth so generally don't comment on those but rather rely on others with more knowledge. That said, I don't think I'm the only person with that opinion. Did they fix stealth with the last patch, or are all the mobs in a quest still tapped in on the player locator beacons?

Reaper changed the meta. In my opinion, things changed for the worse. I've already done my homework regarding this and don't feel compelled to provide proof with every post. If you are really curious, you can read my posts from when Reaper was introduced. Generally, my complaints stem from the way Reaper makes the game less than what it was, how Reaper shows how little the devs care about what makes DDO good, and how Reaper shows things are likely to get worse in this regard, rather than improve.

[Yamani]

I don't care to play melee or stealth so generally don't comment on those but rather rely on others with more knowledge. That said, I don't think I'm the only person with that opinion. Did they fix stealth with the last patch, or are all the mobs in a quest still tapped in on the player locator beacons?

Reaper changed the meta. In my opinion, things changed for the worse. I've already done my homework regarding this and don't feel compelled to provide proof with every post. If you are really curious, you can read my posts from when Reaper was introduced. Generally, my complaints stem from the way Reaper makes the game less than what it was, how Reaper shows how little the devs care about what makes DDO good, and how Reaper shows things are likely to get worse in this regard, rather than improve.

The meta before reaper: everyone can solo everything! meta after reaper: Trinity Restored?

[Pyed-Pyper]

The meta before reaper: everyone can solo everything! meta after reaper: Trinity Restored?

trees

[KingNite]

The meta before reaper: everyone can solo everything! meta after reaper: Trinity Restored?

Same as old one we have had for more than 4 years. The meta before reaper : grind epic past lifes, so you can be powerfull enough to solo everything and complain about it later (easy button builds, read warlock, for those who like it easy and fail to succed even with accumulated PL power) . The meata after: grind reaper trees, so you can get powerfull enough to solo reaper and complain about it later ( easy button builds, read casters, for those who want to feel special again since day 1 but don't really have the skill for it ).

As you see not much has changed, grind past lifes, grind epic past lifes, grind iconic past lifes and now grind trees, it's been like that for years. More of the same but nothing new certainly.

What happens is that due to some features getting out of control 3-4 years ago a lot of the current population got all the PL, for free or the easy way in very little time, so they didt't really had to grind or pay for it. Now they see the grind as something new when most people already got used to it 4+ years ago and those who disliked it are long gone. They are now fighting a battle that was lost 4 years ago and that they decided to ignore cause it didn't concern them, because who cares? they were happy with their free given PL while the rest had to grind it. Now the average player is happily grinding trees or doing whatever, while those early mentioned cry and cry about the grind, but who cares? people is busy doing more of the same grind they have willingly done for years. We all make decisions and decisions have consequences.

[Wizza]

Charm should have its day in the sun. No one gave a rip about how it was mostly useless due to the fact that players could kill mobs faster than it took them to charm and then un-charm them for all these years, and many got yelled at for using charms, but the minute it becomes a viable tactic it gets labeled cheese and players who use it are taunted for lacking skill.



Indeed. I see this in many games forums.

Paper is a cheese build and needs a nerf, scissors is fine. -Rock.

Eheh well said

[KingNite]

They can sell stuff to make money while not increasing the power creep like they did in every pack in the last few years.

I was not talking specifically about you I couldn't care less who this particular one or that other does, but it's a behavior very generalized here.

Do you think they can? 90% of what they sell in the store is more virtual power or things that allow you access to more virtual power. With cosmetics being the only exeption. They can't fund the game only with cosmetics. They made a living of selling virtual power for more than 10 years, why would they change it now. Do you think DDO would have lasted 10 years selling cosmetics or Adventure packs with no meaningfull loot? They don't sell power cause they like it or cause they want the game to be easy, they sell it cause they know by experience that it's what sells the most by a huge margin. And it will be as long as ppl keep complaining about power and power creep at the same time they are buying it on the store. No matter how many posts asking for balance or against powercreep you or anyone makes. That's all I'm trying to tell , you are wasting your time. But if you are happy with it go ahead, not my business.

[BigErkyKid]

They don't sell power cause they like it or cause they want the game to be easy, they sell it cause they know by experience that it's what sells the most by a huge margin. And it will be as long as ppl keep complaining about power and power creep at the same time they are buying it on the store. No matter how many posts asking for balance or against powercreep you or anyone makes. That's all I'm trying to tell , you are wasting your time. But if you are happy with it go ahead, not my business.

RIP accomplishments' integrity.

This is true; selling power in MMOs seems to work. While people say they are not competing against each other, they are certainly looking over their shoulder to see how much of this or that the player next to them has.

Then there is also the OCD type that solos 99% of the time, never posts, virtually leaves in a single player and yet grinds his/her arse off just because.

But I would say that keeping up with the Joneses is far more common.

In any case, IMHO MMOs often end up appealing to the not so healthy reasons to keep playing. They are certainly milking us on those "reasons".

To the thread:

I don't think they intentionally made melees **** in reaper. I think they just don't have a good idea of how DCs thresholds are ATM, or how to balance SP bubbles for both nukers and insta killers. I also think they have absolutely no clue on how to challenge ranged toons without first obliterating melees (1 shot kills being the preferred way right now).

At the end of the day, reaper is a completely useless mode. If you just want to get loot, LE is probably better. If you want XP, r1 is excellent and you don't need anymore than that.

Playing into high reapers at cap makes no sense right now. And playing high reaper elsewhere is just for the sake of getting reaper AP. And guess what, reaper AP is just to boost you to higher skulls.

So you play reaper to earn the AP that will facilitate playing again the same content, on higher skulls. It is a pure ladder game where every step of the ladder is just bloating numbers.

Do I foresee people playing end game in high skulls? Some will, but come to think about it I bet the vast majority won't. If end game becomes a thing, people will chase loot. If they chase XP (sentient weapons), they will do so in R1. At those skulls it is not necessary to have a crapton reaper APs. Sure, you are way more resilient, but you can play it anyway.

How about accomplishments you say? Well due to the absolutely craptastic balancing of reaper, there are no real accomplishments. Cheesing reaper is the best way to play reaper. Either you cheat reaper with charms, you avoid damage perching, or a combination of those types of tactics. That's the simplest way to complete.

Once so much cheese exists, there is no point in trying to beat reaper without cheese.

So all in all, thank you SSG. You designed a crappy game mode with bad balance that is utterly pointless. I thank you because I really hope that I don't need to bother much with it, and that it is mostly ignored by players at cap.

The issue is that I anticipate this means that most content will be too easy, since challenge has moved into reaper by design. However, since I don't tend to use "cheese", it might still be challenging enough for me to have fun.

Let's see what happens.

[cryalotmaster]

I was not talking specifically about you I couldn't care less who this particular one or that other does, but it's a behavior very generalized here.

Do you think they can? 90% of what they sell in the store is more virtual power or things that allow you access to more virtual power. With cosmetics being the only exeption. They can't fund the game only with cosmetics. They made a living of selling virtual power for more than 10 years, why would they change it now. Do you think DDO would have lasted 10 years selling cosmetics or Adventure packs with no meaningfull loot? They don't sell power cause they like it or cause they want the game to be easy, they sell it cause they know by experience that it's what sells the most by a huge margin. And it will be as long as ppl keep complaining about power and power creep at the same time they are buying it on the store. No matter how many posts asking for balance or against powercreep you or anyone makes. That's all I'm trying to tell , you are wasting your time. But if you are happy with it go ahead, not my business.

We had challenge and fun game for a long time even when we got no new pack to play in years.

Now with 2-3 updates per year it is just getting crappier.

I know i am wasting my time and they are not changing it. But i will still post until they shut it down.

[KingNite]

At the end of the day, reaper is a completely useless mode. If you just want to get loot, LE is probably better. If you want XP, r1 is excellent and you don't need anymore than that.

Playing into high reapers at cap makes no sense right now. And playing high reaper elsewhere is just for the sake of getting reaper AP. And guess what, reaper AP is just to boost you to higher skulls.

So you play reaper to earn the AP that will facilitate playing again the same content, on higher skulls. It is a pure ladder game where every step of the ladder is just bloating numbers.


The issue is that I anticipate this means that most content will be too easy, since challenge has moved into reaper by design. However, since I don't tend to use "cheese", it might still be challenging enough for me to have fun.

Let's see what happens.

That's why we have the trees. To lure peps into reaper because reaper itself is completly useless for 99% of the peps as you said. Playing reaper at cap makes sense only for those interested in "challenge" or reaper mechanics and who don't give a F*** for the trees or increased power. Those are the ones who asked for it. What does not make sense is that same peps who asked for increased challenge complain about the trees and how others are quickly farming it insted of enjoying the challenge of r10 without worrying what difficulty others run and what rewards they get for it.

The content will turn easier with time and more AP in the trees of course but only to those who freely decide to use it. Those who ignere the trees will have it harder. Afterall it's a personal choice. That is nothing new though. It happened always. Elite was not as easy when ppl had 0 epic past lifes, the more lifes and gear ppl accumulated the easier it was. Same with epic. Yet peps decided to farm it and make the game easier while complaining on the forums about it. What will happen is that, of course, 99% will farm it and make it easier for themselves then procced to complain the game is too easy, rinse and repeat. Because that's what they did when previously given the choice multiple times and that's the way the game succesfully worked for 10 straight years. Can't really put all the blame on SSG, afterall they deliver what most peps want even if it's not the same as most peps say. Here is the key of it all.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Vertical power-creep accompanied by massive grind is the #1 reason that an MMORPG will never be the most popular gaming genre.

LoL and Counterstrike are predicated on balance and no vertical progression. DDO is based on a bad premise. People want to become "more powerful." I'm sorry but that is so childish, that its comedic.

[KingNite]

People want to become "more powerful." I'm sorry but that is so childish, that its comedic.

As childish as playing an MMO at the age of 30+? As childish as asking for more challenge to test your power? As childish as complaining on the forums about how others get this power quickler than you by playing a lower difficulty? As childish as posting in achievements to brag some about your in game power? As childish as to post the ultimate build? As childish as going to test stuff for free? ( and then get ripped of LOL ). Then probably we agree, maybe afterall everyone left playing is a lil childish and comedic. And maybe they are doing it right given the audience target they have