Game Niches

[Teslana]

If you are talking about MoTu or Reaper, I find these both to be great adds, they did alter the niche base, and game saw some hits, but in the long rung they will pay off, because overall they give more to do and just need some balancing. ... I do not find my approach to discussing the pitfall of PLs wrong. The entire TR thing is based on a mistake and someone asking to reroll their build. That mistake has been nurtured and fed until it has turned into this ugly boring game process that was never has anything to do with the original intent of this game. Having it has an option is good. Having it has the only option is absolutely frustrating, boring, and setting my game experience back a huge huge HUGE amount! ... I am concerned with seeing more content for capped level 30 to do. ...As to this game becoming like a standard, that should not be the aim, but to make this game like the paper and pen should be. Paper and Pen had nothing to do with TRs. I can let PRR slide, it doesn't bother me, but TRs are dreadful to me and those like me, and WE don't want them! WE REJECT THEM and do them reluctantly. ... TRs do NOT make this game unique. Its quests, its character building, and its connection to being a Dungeons and Dragons experience makes it unique. ... TRing for PLs is not appealing to the typical gamer.

I agree with you that the game should be more like P&P, and the quests in DDO that I enjoy the most are ones made with intelligence, humour, passion and delight (as crafted by the best DMs in RL).

I'm not keen on the idea of mounts, as Eberron has plenty of other ways of getting around (horses for hire in The Forgotten Realms might be appropriate?), but I'd love to see housing introduced so we all get to have our own little foothold in the world that we can play with. (As a quick unrelated aside, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I'd also love world chat to be finally introduced so it can unite players, wherever they might be roaming.)

As for TRs, well, I miss the Big Tree. I used to love winding up one life and heading to Kruz by the Big Tree to spill myself back into the earth and rise again anew (just a little stronger). It *was* like P&P - it was a strange, weird, unique quirk introduced by the DM to keep the game interesting and fresh, which allowed you to invest in one soul that could live through multiple lives. It was fun doing a whole new build and seeing how I fared against quests, and I still find it very much fun today. I've never felt the urge to grind out a ton of past lives to add tiny dashes of improvement to my characters; I live and die at my own pace, and have a multitude of alts with weird builds, which I enjoy playing. Some I've TRed, some I haven't; it all depends on the character and how I want it to develop. And, character customisation is so vast that I still can't see the end of things to experiment with. But, yes, I miss the old sacrificial ritual at the Big Tree and how it made TRing feel like something that could and possibly should exist within the game-world.

I'm not about numbers, I'm all about enjoying a different, handcrafted world complete with unusual quests and Dungeon Masters that have their own personalities. DDO has buckets of charm and I still find it delightful with every life, even after years of TRing/not TRing. I don't care for champions or Reaper, but I don't resent anyone for enjoying them as other people love these things, so I'm glad it encourages them to play the game. Your passion for the game is admirable, Wonedream, but people play all sorts of ways and it's that grand scope that I feel truly makes DDO a magnificent game. I believe we can all find our own niches to thrive in and to enjoy within this strange and tangled, literally fantastic, Dungeons & Dragons multiverse

[TacoBob33]

Yes, the obvious and clear intent of your presence here is now revealed. It was see through to begin with. But now you have played your intention.

Cordovan is not yours to command, and you don't own these forums, nor DDO. Thread has nothing to do with trolling. I started a thread with the intent of sorting niches, and other people such as yourself show up, some saying useful things, some saying pointless things, then there is you are your antagonizing remarks, it looks to me like you are trying to inflame me so I say something out of anger, then you can declare trolling or whatever. I didn't invade your thread with useless remarks and belittling statements, you did to mine. If there is a troll, it is the one who can't seem to control himself, keeps clicking on a thread that no one forces him to click on, and keeps saying things that have nothing to do with the thread and are instead personal and pointed.

Go eat a taco bob.

Your plot to seduce people into a flame war with you is revealed with every counter post you make to someone's claim. Your misuse of niche proves as such.

[Wonedream]

Your plot to seduce people into a flame war with you is revealed with every counter post you make to someone's claim. Your misuse of niche proves as such.

Hey Bob, can you remind me how to squelch someone again? I don't feel like reading everything when I don't see any point to it. Our conversation isn't going anywhere. I am not here to inflame, argue, name call, belittle, be tricky, clever, the right one, or make others feel bad in any way. By now, I find you very difficult to listen to, because I have to hear **** like this. I have better things to do then read your rude remarks about me. I am forced to wonder if maybe you have been on these forums before and got kicked... considering how you present yourself as being so familiar with the game, and obviously very familiar with these forums, but so new and so few posts? It is simply hard for me to see someone so new really being so aggressive on other people's threads, but its just a hunch. Anyways, you have distracted me enough, please tell me where the squelch button is and have a nice day!

[Keladon]

Hey Bob, can you remind me how to squelch someone again? I don't feel like reading everything when I don't see any point to it. Our conversation isn't going anywhere. I am not here to inflame, argue, name call, belittle, be tricky, clever, the right one, or make others feel bad in any way. By now, I find you very difficult to listen to, because I have to hear **** like this. I have better things to do then read your rude remarks about me. I am forced to wonder if maybe you have been on these forums before and got kicked... considering how you present yourself as being so familiar with the game, and obviously very familiar with these forums, but so new and so few posts? It is simply hard for me to see someone so new really being so aggressive on other people's threads, but its just a hunch. Anyways, you have distracted me enough, please tell me where the squelch button is and have a nice day!

Priceless.

[Gremmlynn]

Disagree, disagree, and disagree some more.

Mounts would be great. Don't care about ships. You missed the point, no surprise.

Many of the spells could break the game if they are not added carefully. All of them, ALL of them could be added in a way that does not harm the game if done so carefully.

I started playing DDO online for the dungeons and dragons part and no other reason. So, yeah, as a DnD player I expect this to be Dungeons and Dragons that I can play online and some some other game that uses that name but is NOT dungeons and dragons.

So, yeah, I expect to do all the stuff I can do on paper.

And, yeah, I will keep asking for it, and no, you can not stop me from asking for it or convince me this game doesn't have to be dungeons and dragons anymore.

Go play Wow and

Stop trying to destroy dungeons and dragons!

You are suffering from unrealistic expectations then. DDO could never do that, even if cost were not considered. Simply because saying something works in such a such a way on a case by case basis is not the same as programing a computer to make it work in such and such a way on a case by case basis.

DDO is limited by what it can be programed to do in a cost effective manner.

[Wonedream]

You are suffering from unrealistic expectations then. DDO could never do that, even if cost were not considered. Simply because saying something works in such a such a way on a case by case basis is not the same as programing a computer to make it work in such and such a way on a case by case basis.

DDO is limited by what it can be programed to do in a cost effective manner.

There is nothing unrealistic about my expectation. I expect DDO to be as universally awesome as Dungeons and Dragons, and to be basically Dungeons and Dragons. It is not unrealistic, it is what it sounds like. The game was called Dungeons and Dragons Online, and THAT is what I expect, and that is what a LOT of people expect, so to say it is an unrealistic expectation is... unrealistic!

To say it is impossible is another thing. But again, I think it is possible and I think it could be done in a cost effective manner when the time is right. The key word is WHEN. Right now is not the best time to do something like this.

I know enough about games to know adding mounts would be fricking easy, you are not aware of my background, but trust me, it is easy. Putting a combat system to that mount would be a little work, adding multiple mounts mounts up... but it is not something you do all at once when you do it.

You make it sound like I am snapping my fingers and saying "right now, in a flash, make it all happen!"

I am saying "aim for Dungeons and Dragons online, never give up, think with care, and be as daring as Dungeons and Dragons paper and pen was. It had a reputation good and bad, it was daring, and it is still a great game today. Be THAT game, and not the "we can't do that" game.

You say it is impossible. I say make it possible and stop having doubts!

[Gremmlynn]

There is nothing unrealistic about my expectation. I expect DDO to be as universally awesome as Dungeons and Dragons, and to be basically Dungeons and Dragons. It is not unrealistic, it is what it sounds like. The game was called Dungeons and Dragons Online, and THAT is what I expect, and that is what a LOT of people expect, so to say it is an unrealistic expectation is... unrealistic!

To say it is impossible is another thing. But again, I think it is possible and I think it could be done in a cost effective manner when the time is right. The key word is WHEN. Right now is not the best time to do something like this.

I know enough about games to know adding mounts would be fricking easy, you are not aware of my background, but trust me, it is easy. Putting a combat system to that mount would be a little work, adding multiple mounts mounts up... but it is not something you do all at once when you do it.

You make it sound like I am snapping my fingers and saying "right now, in a flash, make it all happen!"

I am saying "aim for Dungeons and Dragons online, never give up, think with care, and be as daring as Dungeons and Dragons paper and pen was. It had a reputation good and bad, it was daring, and it is still a great game today. Be THAT game, and not the "we can't do that" game.

You say it is impossible. I say make it possible and stop having doubts!

You're just getting silly now.

There is nothing all that daring about D&D. It is also much easier to add or change things in a PnP game where all one needs to do is say those things have been added or changed. One needn't have to change or throw out and remake several other, often unrelated, things to make those things work. One needn't have to hire artists and animators to make things look believable. One needn't have to worry about what unrelated things will become broken by the change. One needs to simply say things work like this and they do.

To imagine that investing that heavily into minor details for a marginally successful 11 year old game is somehow a sound business decision is beyond reason. Frankly, it would be unreasonable to expect that from a brand new game. The value simply isn't there.

But I'm probably wasting my time trying to discus this here with a crowd that sees TR to be a good idea (~1% more for only twice the cost of the original 100%, in the real world one makes 2 new games instead of spending that on making a current game a little better).

So yes, it is unreasonable to expect SSG to try to give you what you want for what their likely return is for doing so.

[whoolsey]

Paper and pen basis, that is what basis. I can ride a mount on paper and pen, I want DnD to be online, not just what is convenient, but what makes DnD the game that it is.

This isn't P&P online, there are far better solutions for that

I am not the only one either.

Argumentum ad populum

I want mounts.

I won't change my mind. If game adds mounts I will ride them and no one will stop me!

I want i want i want..... what is the impact of your wishes?

Yeah, really, all spells can be added, but some would need requirements prepared first.

Fly would break the game? No, it would barely hurt it really. First off, they could bar fly from working in certain places. Second, they can make it a high level spell or epic only. Third, they could add flying monsters to make flying to the boss not so easy. Fourth, they could add sky traps that blow up if you get too close, or arrow traps that shoot poisonous arrows for quests like Maze of Madness.. now flying isn't so yay! There are lots of ways this spell could be added to the game, most quests would have you flying in a corridor, which isn't putting you way over every monsters head.

Plus, MONSTERS could cast FLY too... so it isn't gonna just be cake anymore.

And many games feature fly, and it is totally fun I have done it many times, and in DDO, where MAGIC and SPELLS are part of the identity, taking fly out is reducing DnD bit by bit, until it really isn't DnD anymore. This game needs FLY!

not all monsters could or would, making it into a fly or no fly scenario for mobs and players.

Could also be easily added to the game. It would have to be controlled to an extent. And modified, but at least these two spells from DnD paper and Pen would be seen in the game. First, put a 1 or 2 day timer, or 1 or 2 hour timer, a long timer. Second, add rare ingredients for spell. Third limit the wish to a list of several common options... make it versitile to some extent.... so it can do many things and can act like many spells on demand.. with the right consideration it would not mess the game up and would be great fun to use.

so water it down, i got it.

Pass Wall, make it active for a few seconds, and if you are in a wall when it runs out, you die. Again put a long timer on it too, so yeah, you can pass a wall here and there, but no, you can't do it non stop. Also, if there are walls that are too easy to exploit, simply put a magic rune on them that prevents passwall from working there. They could also make it a high end spell.

Stone to mud would be a lot tougher if they made it so you can cast it on any wall. The requirements for that are probably not worth it, but the spell can still have its place as a combat spell against Stone Elementals and other stone creatures. And with it, they could add special walls that can be targeted to appear in future modules.

They could also simply bar it from working in certain modules where it would be too much work to place runes or such. Easy really.

So, invisible walls to block the spells everywhere or limited walls that could allow you to pass? we already have that, they are called locked doors.

These spells would take work, but they are in high demand. And they would not be impossible to do. Polymorph could offer you a selection of 10 choices, and shapechange can offer 10 more, though they would be more impressive. Wolf and bear are working fine, people like them and play them, and that is the most important part of them being added to the game. You wouldn't tell those who play bears and wolfs they can't do it now because it hasn't been fixed would you? This is what you are doing when you say Shapechange can't be done. It can.

let me give you a history lesson, it took the dev years for them to come up with the wolf/bear shape animation to work.
It's only good for combat, since stealth is broken and npc will attack you because you're part of the hero team (the way the game is programmed.)

They could work, they just need to be well thought out.

Why don't you come up with a solution instead of baseless suggestions?

Yes, and these spells should have function. This is Dungeons and Dragons, not compromised Dungeons and Dragons. For these spells to work, they need to add a reason to speak with the dead, or animals, and plants. Plants that are just part of the background could just say rubble, and they would just hear more noise. Certain plants, monster plants, could be a different case. There could be parts in the quest where there is no way to know certain things except by guessing or talking to a dead person. Maybe the rat in the sewer knows something you don't, and talking to him will save you a lot of trouble.

Again, these could be added and useful, but they would require some consideration and care. They would also make this game more dungeons and dragons and not something else!

many P&P mechanics don't work in a online setting without massive retooling

This spell would see function by showing a line to the quest, something most players wouldn't need, but new ones would appreciate. It could also be used in a quest to show the direction of the next objective. Or it could just flash an arrow near the player casting it. Some quests could be so tricky (a real maze for example) that this spell would be a must for making those quests easier.

Someone else already mentioned how to add this. They said to have the monsters dissappear for a bit. I think if the monsters just froze and couldn't be effected by anything that would be enough. It wouldn't effect fellow team players, a minor adjustment to make the spell easy to add to the game. And just replace turns with seconds

extremely abuseble or watered down to near uselessness.

Another spell the displays a missing aspect of DnD. Detecting alignment needs requirements to make useful and worth while. Right now it could be added with ease, cast it on a dog.. dog is neutral.. cast it on a ghoul... ghoul is chaotic evil... but if they added NPCs that offered to join the party, with a chance of really being helpful, betraying, stealing, etc... this spell would be very useful to cast on NPCs randomly showing up, detect alignment, he is choatic evil... don't let him join, he will likely try to kill us when we are hurting and take our stuff!

Maybe a NPC is just telling you something, go that way it is safer... again he is random so we can't memorize if he is lying or not. Detect alignment, he is evil.. good chance he is lying...

Stuff like this made paper and pen total fun, trying to figure out if someone can be trusted..

Adding this spells like these would greatly enhance DDO and make it closer to the paper and pen original!

Well this shows you have no clue about Eberron and the reasoning behind it's alignment system, all alignments are blurred in Eberron.
You could be attacked by a good gold dragon because it's hungry, getting help from an evil vampire because it's goals coincide with yours.
Alignment has always been the bane of role players and gm's, reality has far more shades of grey then the alignment systems allow for.
I seriously suggest you go read the players handbook on Eberron and the many articles done by the creators of that setting.

I understand their timing. I also understand that with skill, you can do all sorts of things with programming. A programmer would say it is impossible, a GOOD programmer would say it can be done and how long that would take.

And that's the problem, lack of skill, time and planning, wich has manifested itself for half a decade

You are suggesting this game is less than dungeons and dragons, instead of being dungeons and dragons. I am an old player of Dungeons and Dragons and I am here online to play dungeons and dragons, not partial dungeons and dragons. This means I want fly, detect alignment... mounts, and all paper and pen options. Give it time, budget, and vision and it will happen.

So where is this magical mountain of money coming from?

I know they have limited resources. Which is why I said they should add a little at a time starting with the easiest ones.

Like filling all the older quests with invisible walls to prevent easy completions by flying?

Rome was not built in a day.

Nope, it was build on conquest, slave labor, an empire build by armies, politics, developing tech, etc.
Next time, use something more useful to compare the game with.

You are saying DDO can not be like paper and pen.

No i said it can't and shouldn't and stated the issues why it shouldn't.

I am saying it can.

Without coming up with a solution, you might be new here on the forum but the player base has a long memory and a good idea of what to expect of devs at this point.

That is the difference between us.

the difference is that you state what i want and i state why . the reason why is more important in a debate. proclamations are easily set aside.

They should focus on content updates, and balances, bugs, gear, classes, etc, but they should also be chipping away at this list, and asking themselves "how can we bring the Dungeons and Dragons roll playing paper and pen experience into an online experience to the fullest possible measure?".

No they shouldn't, many P&P idea's won't work in a online environment.

The game is called Dungeons and Dragons online for a reason.

It was origionally called:
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Stormreach
Later changed to:
Dungeons & Dragons Online: Eberron Unlimited
and only recently called:
Dungeons & Dragons Online
The distinction there is important, in Eberron, alignment works differently and mounts are use impaired in a world with high tech.

Yes, the obvious and clear intent of your presence here is now revealed. It was see through to begin with. But now you have played your intention.

Cordovan is not yours to command, and you don't own these forums, nor DDO. Thread has nothing to do with trolling. I started a thread with the intent of sorting niches, and other people such as yourself show up, some saying useful things, some saying pointless things, then there is you are your antagonizing remarks, it looks to me like you are trying to inflame me so I say something out of anger, then you can declare trolling or whatever. I didn't invade your thread with useless remarks and belittling statements, you did to mine. If there is a troll, it is the one who can't seem to control himself, keeps clicking on a thread that no one forces him to click on, and keeps saying things that have nothing to do with the thread and are instead personal and pointed.

Go eat a taco bob.

Wonedream, your intention is clear to, push your agenda without reason or rhyme, just because you wan't things doesn't mean people will comply.
Didn't your parents or education get round to teaching you the idea that other people have opinions too? You're starting to look like a only child by rich privileged parents.
Go study how debates are done.
Name calling is admitting defeat, because you can no longer debate the issue and start to attack your opponent directly.

Paper and Pen is the biggest reason for that need.

Going by pen and paper, melees can't use cleave without hitting the party, casters can't use AoE spells. it would mean hours of coding to do the same for mobs.
Even worse, melees have it pretty bad now, if going full P&P melees become useless past lv 5.
PVP, something you would like to see the devs put effort in for jousting would be a melee only thing, any caster would destroy his opponent with a myriad of spells.

We want this to be dungeons and dragons online, so that when people come here for that experience they get that experience.

It's called D&D Online, not pen and paper online and what version? 1?2?3,5? pathfinder? 4th? 5th? because all of them vary wildly.

This is a game for the imagination and letting us do a lot with it.

Again, you're talking about a different game type, there are online solutions for that, i linked them, did you check them out?

A lot of players would just like to ride a horse.

As to the instances, and smaller places where they would be more ackward, simple bar mounts from certain quests, let them be used in slayer and in other quests. "Your horse refuses to enter that tiny little cave", "your horse has a feeling that prevents it from preceding any further".

Mounts could bring in... JOUSTING... tournaments... a bit of PvP or go against the computer, jousting would be fun. It would also be fun to charge up to a monster with a lance and pin it for heavy damage. Or maybe they come charging at us with lances??? Fun stuff!

Mount fighting could involve horse kicks and stomps, and for smaller creatures overrun. Fun!

Mounts could add speed to the time it takes from quest to quest, something players who want speed would not argue with.

Have you tried wow, it has mounts, have you tried aion, it has flying, did you see how their game play differs from DDO?
Horses wouldn't do much damage (dr breaking and currently players do a lot more damage), they would also die really fast, an owl bear vs a horse? a drow ambush vs a horse? a bunch of ghosts vs a horse? instant dead for the horse.
It could have worked for the paly, making it a magical mount, everything else wouldn't survive long.

Mounts would open up a niche too, for people who like this (there are race games and horse games already...) If they offered variety, and differences, and race tracks, mounts could become a big part of the fun. It could even become a separate game within a game, still DDO because you can ride mounts on paper and pen, still DDO because you can JOUST on paper and pen, still DDO because you can race on Paper and Pen.

I Still DM to this day, if i try to do jousting or horse races it would mean 7 people sitting on their hands while the only one putting points into ride is *****ing because his paladin dog mount is excluded from a horse race. lol
In DDO, those that would be jousting would be human fighters and paladins, where are they getting those skill points from to ride with?
Again, this isn't P&P even then, we're doing intrigue and role playing, not horseback ridding, maybe that particular niche should find the local stables and learn how to ride a real one?

They got us skying on a frozen river already, and that is fun. It isn't mandatory, and it goes to show the DDO is adding game within game, there are other examples of them doing this already too.

You mean the dead mini game?

Mounts would be great! Sooner or later I believe they are going to add them anyways :P

I hope not, like many other things it would be a waste of dev time better spend making content for dead levels and re balancing broken content.

Hey Bob, can you remind me how to squelch someone again? I don't feel like reading everything when I don't see any point to it. Our conversation isn't going anywhere. I am not here to inflame, argue, name call, belittle, be tricky, clever, the right one, or make others feel bad in any way. By now, I find you very difficult to listen to, because I have to hear **** like this. I have better things to do then read your rude remarks about me. I am forced to wonder if maybe you have been on these forums before and got kicked... considering how you present yourself as being so familiar with the game, and obviously very familiar with these forums, but so new and so few posts? It is simply hard for me to see someone so new really being so aggressive on other people's threads, but its just a hunch. Anyways, you have distracted me enough, please tell me where the squelch button is and have a nice day!

Strange, you seem to be doing just that, baiting and trolling.
pot....kettle.....black.....

[Wonedream]

I am not interesting in this troll stuff. If you disagree with me, that is one thing. If you call me a troll because I have my own opinion and share it, and will defend it, then you are pushing it too far and being offensive. I am going to simply block people who I think are trying to turn my thread into one something it was not meant to be. It is better then reading their inflamatory statements, getting mad, and seeing this thread go away from the main intent, to either discuss the ideas in a meaningful manner, contribute to their organization, or along those lines.

So I am blocking anyone who says anything remotely out of line. Say what you want, I will never respond to you again if you fit this. There will be no inflaming, and escalation, it will be frozen immediately.

And I will proceed with the thread undisturbed this way.

Thank you.


EDIT: I have added two people to my ignore list. I will never read anything they write again ever. If they talk about trolling I won't know. I have nothing against them, but I do not want to be offended on these forums and anything I feel is offensive to me will be avoided, since they added an ignore option I am using it. I am not trying to offend anyone, make anyone mad, or play tricks and if someone does not believe me when I say this, they are in no way my friend! I won't befriend people who think I am up to no good!

I will now proceed with this thread, which I enjoy, and which I feel will be valuable.

[TacoBob33]

Maybe if this thread didn't assume that SSG didn't know it's market share, that you know better than they do, heck that you even know what a niche is (of which the proclaimed racing game catagory isn't) then this thread could be taken seriously. Maybe if you didn't laud everyone who agreed with you and scorn anyone who disagreed with you, you could be taken seriously.

[Algreg]

I am not interesting in this troll stuff. If you disagree with me, that is one thing. If you call me a troll because I have my own opinion and share it, and will defend it, then you are pushing it too far and being offensive. I am going to simply block people who I think are trying to turn my thread into one something it was not meant to be. It is better then reading their inflamatory statements, getting mad, and seeing this thread go away from the main intent, to either discuss the ideas in a meaningful manner, contribute to their organization, or along those lines.

So I am blocking anyone who says anything remotely out of line. Say what you want, I will never respond to you again if you fit this. There will be no inflaming, and escalation, it will be frozen immediately.

And I will proceed with the thread undisturbed this way.

Thank you.


EDIT: I have added two people to my ignore list. I will never read anything they write again ever. If they talk about trolling I won't know. I have nothing against them, but I do not want to be offended on these forums and anything I feel is offensive to me will be avoided, since they added an ignore option I am using it. I am not trying to offend anyone, make anyone mad, or play tricks and if someone does not believe me when I say this, they are in no way my friend! I won't befriend people who think I am up to no good!

I will now proceed with this thread, which I enjoy, and which I feel will be valuable.

And that is truly impressive, any lesser person would have just done that without a pompous declaration.

[Gremmlynn]

I am not interesting in this troll stuff. If you disagree with me, that is one thing. If you call me a troll because I have my own opinion and share it, and will defend it, then you are pushing it too far and being offensive. I am going to simply block people who I think are trying to turn my thread into one something it was not meant to be. It is better then reading their inflamatory statements, getting mad, and seeing this thread go away from the main intent, to either discuss the ideas in a meaningful manner, contribute to their organization, or along those lines.

So I am blocking anyone who says anything remotely out of line. Say what you want, I will never respond to you again if you fit this. There will be no inflaming, and escalation, it will be frozen immediately.

And I will proceed with the thread undisturbed this way.

Thank you.


EDIT: I have added two people to my ignore list. I will never read anything they write again ever. If they talk about trolling I won't know. I have nothing against them, but I do not want to be offended on these forums and anything I feel is offensive to me will be avoided, since they added an ignore option I am using it. I am not trying to offend anyone, make anyone mad, or play tricks and if someone does not believe me when I say this, they are in no way my friend! I won't befriend people who think I am up to no good!

I will now proceed with this thread, which I enjoy, and which I feel will be valuable.

I'm guessing I'm one of the two.

Oh well, not my loss.

[whoolsey]

I am not interesting in this troll stuff. If you disagree with me, that is one thing. If you call me a troll because I have my own opinion and share it, and will defend it, then you are pushing it too far and being offensive. I am going to simply block people who I think are trying to turn my thread into one something it was not meant to be. It is better then reading their inflamatory statements, getting mad, and seeing this thread go away from the main intent, to either discuss the ideas in a meaningful manner, contribute to their organization, or along those lines.

So I am blocking anyone who says anything remotely out of line. Say what you want, I will never respond to you again if you fit this. There will be no inflaming, and escalation, it will be frozen immediately.

And I will proceed with the thread undisturbed this way.

Thank you.


EDIT: I have added two people to my ignore list. I will never read anything they write again ever. If they talk about trolling I won't know. I have nothing against them, but I do not want to be offended on these forums and anything I feel is offensive to me will be avoided, since they added an ignore option I am using it. I am not trying to offend anyone, make anyone mad, or play tricks and if someone does not believe me when I say this, they are in no way my friend! I won't befriend people who think I am up to no good!

I will now proceed with this thread, which I enjoy, and which I feel will be valuable.

Dear wonedream,

i'm likely be one of the ignored people, i might as well respond to all the readers. maybe one of them is your friend and will forward my post in a pm.

Once you start ignoring feedback, you create a bubble around yourself, a bubble of like minded individuals that agree with a lot you say and rarely give feedback let alone criticism.
This is how harmful ideologies fester in a society,in closed of groups.
I have seen progressive communities get hijacked in the past and turned into regressive communities, you're doing the same here, you're so engrossed in your idea's that you seem to have a hard time grasping that other players have far different ideas about the game and your solution seems to be name calling, blocking and stopping communication in order to sabotage the conversation.
A forum is an open floor for discourse, without that people would resort to more harmful ways of making other listen.


I have given reasons why certain things can't be done and why certain thing shouldn't be done, i mentioned the implications.
You haven't responded properly to a single point so far. all you did was make a statement, defending what you wanted instead of using facts and arguments to persuade people.
I strongly suggest you pick up more of the constructive feedback and try to understand the "why" of things.

At one point you started the name calling and people (rightfully) pointed that out.
Name calling meant you lost the argument, you have nothing to refute the argument, it means you're reduced to attacking the person (instead of the idea).

[vryxnr]

Dear wonedream,

i'm likely be one of the ignored people, i might as well respond to all the readers. maybe one of them is your friend and will forward my post in a pm.

Once you start ignoring feedback, you create a bubble around yourself, a bubble of like minded individuals that agree with a lot you say and rarely give feedback let alone criticism.
This is how harmful ideologies fester in a society,in closed of groups.
I have seen progressive communities get hijacked in the past and turned into regressive communities, you're doing the same here, you're so engrossed in your idea's that you seem to have a hard time grasping that other players have far different ideas about the game and your solution seems to be name calling, blocking and stopping communication in order to sabotage the conversation.
A forum is an open floor for discourse, without that people would resort to more harmful ways of making other listen.


I have given reasons why certain things can't be done and why certain thing shouldn't be done, i mentioned the implications.
You haven't responded properly to a single point so far. all you did was make a statement, defending what you wanted instead of using facts and arguments to persuade people.
I strongly suggest you pick up more of the constructive feedback and try to understand the "why" of things.

At one point you started the name calling and people (rightfully) pointed that out.
Name calling meant you lost the argument, you have nothing to refute the argument, it means you're reduced to attacking the person (instead of the idea).

^ All of this.