Game Niches

[Wonedream]

I don't think you get what a niche game is. DDO was built to appeal to a small audience rather than trying to take on bigger MMOs directly. Defining game niches is impossible because they are as diverse as the crowd that plays it. A niche game however is not specifically a game to appeal to niches.

Keep telling me I don't get something I studied for a long time, took classes on, and work with every day! And I promise you it won't take long for me to start ignoring you if you do. I understand what a niche is, and what a game niche is. And this thread shows me devoting MORE time to this study then YOU! But you are useful, even if trying to derail this thread, you probably don't know how, and I don't feel like spelling it out for you.

Defining the game niches is EASY... RACE CAR GAME... RACE NICHE... people who like that stuff will play it. You can't mumble jumble this into a mystical mysterious concept that only the few chosen will ever understand. It is pretty easy stuff, it just takes a little time and effort. '

Now you are trying to say this game is was made intentionally the way YOU want it. No. And then calling it the game's niche.

No, this game was NOT made to appeal to a small audience. This is the most ridiculous thing you have said so far. It was made to be a dungeons and dragons experience ONLINE and then to appeal to as many people as possible.

Your misconception about what this game is about is causing you to make comments of little value. I won't say none, but little in that they push this game deeper into a narrow rift that isn't fun for everyone.

I am gonna go play DDO now. I will play my alt MULES, but I won't TR them (not more then twice at least, those +5 stats tombs from favor, and title, both are nice and should be only acquired by TRing)

[vryxnr]

DDO was built to appeal to a small audience rather than trying to take on bigger MMOs directly. Defining game niches is impossible because they are as diverse as the crowd that plays it. A niche game however is not specifically a game to appeal to niches.

On that note, were DDO to really change itself up to be more mainstream, more appealing to a larger/broader audience, most likely by following the footsteps of other more monetarily successful MMOs (like WoW), I'd honestly probably just go and play those other MMOs instead. DDO fills a niche/role/hole in my heart that the other big name games do not, and I'll admit that "niche" is not easy to define for me, as it's actually a combination of many factors and quirks.

I understand that it's very easy for a "higher up" in the business world who is more interested in the bottom line to dismiss that and lump me into a "not worth our time" pile, saying that I'm then not their target demographic/audience/market then... but at this moment in time, I am (one part of) the target market, and I will resist sudden and major changes for the simple fact that there are so very few games that actually do cater to my taste at all. DDO becoming just another mainstream MMO clone would kill it for me, and I don't even know if I'd be able to find a replacement game. If I end up not being able to, I'd probably just stop playing online games altogether (which would be sad. I've met some great people via this game, many who I consider real friends).

Now, turning DDO into a WoW clone may be a bit more extreme than what some of you may envision, but any talk or attempt at opening up the market by changing what DDO offers and what niches it fills opens the door that can easily lead there. And that is something that (I think) many of us do not want at all.

[TacoBob33]

And you still don't get it and continue your oneupsmanship with anyone that disagrees with you. Show me where you are a successful marketing strategist.

[Wonedream]

On that note, were DDO to really change itself up to be more mainstream, more appealing to a larger/broader audience, most likely by following the footsteps of other more monetarily successful MMOs (like WoW), I'd honestly probably just go and play those other MMOs instead. DDO fills a niche/role/hole in my heart that the other big name games do not, and I'll admit that "niche" is not easy to define for me, as it's actually a combination of many factors and quirks.

I understand that it's very easy for a "higher up" in the business world who is more interested in the bottom line to dismiss that and lump me into a "not worth our time" pile, saying that I'm then not their target demographic/audience/market then... but at this moment in time, I am (one part of) the target market, and I will resist sudden and major changes for the simple fact that there are so very few games that actually do cater to my taste at all. DDO becoming just another mainstream MMO clone would kill it for me, and I don't even know if I'd be able to find a replacement game. If I end up not being able to, I'd probably just stop playing online games altogether (which would be sad. I've met some great people via this game, many who I consider real friends).

Now, turning DDO into a WoW clone may be a bit more extreme than what some of you may envision, but any talk or attempt at opening up the market by changing what DDO offers and what niches it fills opens the door that can easily lead there. And that is something that (I think) many of us do not want at all.

If DDO went mainstream it wouldn't be DDO anymore, if this means mainstream equating to what most MMORPGs look like (good graphics, boring system). DDO should go after the money though, so that it can increase its budget and becoming better overall. It should maintain its Identity for what it was meant to be while doing so.

I began to play DDO with the thought of playing Dungeons and Dragons ONLINE. I did not start with the idea of playing something else online, otherwise I would have. I was pleased to see elfs, humans, dwards... and the 6 stat system I know so well. I was pleased to see saving throw system, like they have in core 3.5 rules. I was pleased to see they where trying to make it like the book.

What happened to that?

It has turned into an arcade kinda with reaper add, but I do like Reaper, and think it adds more options but doesn't really take any away, just makes some more ackward to do. DDO is not an arcade game but if it keeps going this way it could end up feeling like one. It is also not like many MMORPGs where monsters become bags of hps, if you make a good build you can take down most stuff.

If your build has enough work and gear, you can take on Reaper 10 and TANK it. I have seen this and verified it to be true. But reaching that point does take a long grind. Enough digression though.

DDO was meant to be an extension of the original game niche of paper and pen, but has strayed away from some of the stuff paper and pen offers. It has also by accident gone down a path of narrowing its niche pool, instead of expanding it. It has made preparatory movements that could end up expanding its niche range, but has yet to balance the changes and revive the lost niches it filled to a point they appeal to those who enjoy them.

That is the True Niche of DDO, the paper and pen Niche, that players entering a game called Dungeons and Dragons come for experiencing. The name helps them identify what they might expect, which if it is like the paper and pen, will be a lot of fun.

Here is what is missing still that paper and pen lets us do:
Mounts... riding horses or dragons or what not. We can do this on paper and pen, but not in DDO. Thus, DDO is falling short of the paper and pen niche, which fills many fantasies, including that of riding a mount, and does so effortlessly. It would take effort to add mounts to the game and balance them in, but it is worth it because it is getting the game more to the paper and pen experience, which fills so many niches it has become a giant.

Mounts
Underwater fighting
Flying and Air Combat
Becoming a King, ruling land, an army
Sentient Weapons
Climbing Walls
Grappling
Spears and spear combat
Spell Range (so many missing spells, they should just add them and stop worrying about how it will effect things, but place them at a point where it won't effect things they don't want those spells to effect. )
More Randomization (the core set provided tables for producing random adventures on a whim, and they worked great!)

There are other things still missing too, Id have to go over the core rule's to get a comprehensive list compiled. This is just off the top of my head.


Now the point of this thread is not to destroy a single niche, nor to lobby for DDO to be more like paper and pen, but to identify the marketplace niches, how many of these niches does DDO already fill and how many more could it add without impacting the game in a negative way, and how to increase player population.

Understanding the niches as best as possible is obviously the first thing to do here.

Then we can ask which niches are missing that paper and pen adds, and if paper and pen can fill the great universal amount of niches that it does, DDO should do this too, aiming to be in essence like paper and pen, and not just another MMORPG clone.

It should never end up feeling like WoW or any other game. TR system has nothing to do with this, it only tries to extend play time. And it constrains this game in many ways, in particular it constrains many niches that could be appealing to a much broader audience.


The game should not cater to you or me. It should also not have a "big time" perspective but a clear perspective on what it is after, which I honestly believe is paper and pen mechanics and experience made 3d online and virtually shared.

If we continue down the path this game has so far taking, it will end up a well disguised clone, disguising its cloning but nonetheless feeling like most other games.

We need to return to the core ideas of Dungeons and Dragons as being the most important aim for this game.

Because the core ideas of Dungeons and Dragons covers so many niches, I think it would be very valuable for a number of reasons to review those niches, the entire niche market of online games (because DDO is ONLINE), and extrapolate this into a means to achieving synchronicity to the original paper and pen spirit and experience.

If this is achieved, DDO will stand out, live up to its name, and find more people playing this game then any other online game ever saw.

Wow will take a back seat and see a shadow on its head if that happens.

DDO will be the most prevalent online gaming if that happens.

Because so many people will be playing it for the experience they want, which paper and pen offers. People who never played paper and pen will flock to the game seeing it fill so many roles, and knowing that many, not just one, of those roles they find very appealing.

Want to have a war? Get a castle, army, etc... now this type of update would be a huge undertaking. But with a big budget it would be cake work. It really would. Its difficulty has a LOT to do with its budget. Right now, if this game is running on fumes, as some have said, that won't happen.

It will happen on paper and pen, though assembling players and meeting regularly in today's fast paced reality is more challenging then it used to be. It can still happen easily if wanted.

This sort of thing does not happen in one update, one day, or one year.

Rome was not built in a day.

[baha]

dual box niche

[TacoBob33]

but how many niches are actually niches >.> that's the real question

[Wonedream]

but how many niches are actually niches >.> that's the real question

Yeah, if there is a niche that is not appealing and helping to make money, it would be one of those niches that isn't actually a niche. If it is making money and attracting players, then it is an actual niche. We will want to know which is which from which and correctly identify each niche.

[Gremmlynn]

Stealth,
Minimal kill,
Pacifist.

There is maybe one or two quests that support this play-style, 3 classes with at least one PRE dedicated to it, and they re the most fun i managed to have. Most of the game mechanics are in place to support it, close to playable with a moderate tweak.

Only needs more instances taking it into consideration.

The only down is that the play style is difficult to coordinate in multiplayer.

I wouldn't say that's the only downside. The repetitive content of the game makes it sort of a "figure it out and just repeat" play style as it has a basis in avoiding what random elements the game does have.

In a game with more randomness in it; mob/trap location/type; maps; etc., would better support this sort of play style as a "winning script" wouldn't exist.

[Gremmlynn]

Then it shouldn't be such a deal should it? TRing is trivial, unless you try to change it, then its profound!

This is a bit confusing?


Ill add, you are saying we only need the supporting PLs to be complete. No, while we do not need all PLs to make a build awesome, or possibly even optimal, we do need all PLs so the word complete means what it means... COMPLETE.

A Complete toon has all PLs. If a single PL is missing, there is something left to do, it is not complete. How will that something left to do get done... TRing because it is the only way...

There is two references at play here, and I think that is part of the confusion. There is the complete toon that has completionalist feat, but does not qualify for the complete toon that has maxed out.

Maxed out complete is really complete, having everything that can be offered.

Completionalist complete is incomplete, because there are still PLs missing it can obtain.

Obsessive completionist?

I mean, just because one CAN add pointless things, what other reason than obsessiveness is there to do so?

[Keladon]

DDO was meant to be an extension of the original game niche of paper and pen, but has strayed away from some of the stuff paper and pen offers.

For good reasons.
Small example: remember how AC used to work? You either built for AC, making that you sole focus or you completely ignored it - how was that better?

Using pen and paper rules works in static offline games, but not in ever evolving MMORPG's.

[whoolsey]

Mounts
Underwater fighting
Flying and Air Combat
Becoming a King, ruling land, an army
Sentient Weapons
Climbing Walls
Grappling
Spears and spear combat
Spell Range (so many missing spells, they should just add them and stop worrying about how it will effect things, but place them at a point where it won't effect things they don't want those spells to effect. )
More Randomization (the core set provided tables for producing random adventures on a whim, and they worked great!)

Mounts are useless, we have airships and teleporters everywhere (don't bother bringing up forgotten realms trash area's, they should never have been made or rewritten to fit into Eberron).
Underwater fighting, the devs tried but couldn't get it to work.
Flying and Air Combat, engine limitations and the closest we got was a E3BC quest
Becoming a King, ruling land, an army, not possible in the current lore and what if you did? you're gone sit on a throne 8 hours a day?
Sentient Weapons engine limitation, the best you can hope for, within what the devs have shown us the last decade, is a blank item we can upgrade, like any other item.
Climbing Walls would break so many quests in ddo
Grappling why? best we got is earth-grab atm, grapling would require new animations (from a team that doesn't like to introduce thieflings due to the tail animations), grapling (wich is poorly supported in the p&p game) would work poorly on anything bigger then you and impossible against red named and bosses.
Spears and spear combat the way ranged combat and spell casting is abused in the current meta, i'm glad they didn't include this.
Spell Range like what fly?, wish, pass wall? stone to mud?, shape change, polymorf? limited wish? many d&d spells would break the game
More Randomization, random doesn't work, take for example prey on the hunter, if the game was really random, there is a possibility you won't make it through the maze at all.
Random fails in many regards, like reapers spawning in places you can't reach at all.
another issue is money, why create 30 versions of a dungeon when 2 weeks down the line people will yell the version number through the mic and people will check the correct page on the wiki?
or it results in people complaining on the forum a party member killed them with a potion of wonder.

Simple answer, engine limitations and in game lore


Now about this:
That mistake has been nurtured and fed until it has turned into this ugly boring game process that was never has anything to do with the original intent of this game.
and your clambering to P&P:
P& paper had some huge flaws, power creep in books, melee's needing weird splashes to be mildly useful, casters dominating the game, wanted to play a melee? the only question was CoDzilla, cleric or druid was the only real option, sure a chain wielding FB did more damage but all it needed to destroy a years worth of work and thus kill the party was getting the party in a small room and damage the barb.
past level 5 a melee was seriously under powered, past lv 10 you were the casters whipping boy and you started spending more and more time away from the game table eating cheetos and drinking mountain dew on the couch, hoping the dm would do a party wipe and you were needed at the table again for lowbie levels.

I'm really glad this game had sporadic periods where melees had at least a moment of spotlight.

As for original intent? what was that exactly?
What was the original intent for ddo? because i can ask 20 players in game and get at least 10 different opinions about the subject.

[Wonedream]

Mounts are useless, we have airships and teleporters everywhere (don't bother bringing up forgotten realms trash area's, they should never have been made or rewritten to fit into Eberron).
Underwater fighting, the devs tried but couldn't get it to work.
Flying and Air Combat, engine limitations and the closest we got was a E3BC quest
Becoming a King, ruling land, an army, not possible in the current lore and what if you did? you're gone sit on a throne 8 hours a day?
Sentient Weapons engine limitation, the best you can hope for, within what the devs have shown us the last decade, is a blank item we can upgrade, like any other item.
Climbing Walls would break so many quests in ddo
Grappling why? best we got is earth-grab atm, grapling would require new animations (from a team that doesn't like to introduce thieflings due to the tail animations), grapling (wich is poorly supported in the p&p game) would work poorly on anything bigger then you and impossible against red named and bosses.
Spears and spear combat the way ranged combat and spell casting is abused in the current meta, i'm glad they didn't include this.
Spell Range like what fly?, wish, pass wall? stone to mud?, shape change, polymorf? limited wish? many d&d spells would break the game
More Randomization, random doesn't work, take for example prey on the hunter, if the game was really random, there is a possibility you won't make it through the maze at all.
Random fails in many regards, like reapers spawning in places you can't reach at all.
another issue is money, why create 30 versions of a dungeon when 2 weeks down the line people will yell the version number through the mic and people will check the correct page on the wiki?
or it results in people complaining on the forum a party member killed them with a potion of wonder.

Simple answer, engine limitations and in game lore


Now about this:
That mistake has been nurtured and fed until it has turned into this ugly boring game process that was never has anything to do with the original intent of this game.
and your clambering to P&P:
P& paper had some huge flaws, power creep in books, melee's needing weird splashes to be mildly useful, casters dominating the game, wanted to play a melee? the only question was CoDzilla, cleric or druid was the only real option, sure a chain wielding FB did more damage but all it needed to destroy a years worth of work and thus kill the party was getting the party in a small room and damage the barb.
past level 5 a melee was seriously under powered, past lv 10 you were the casters whipping boy and you started spending more and more time away from the game table eating cheetos and drinking mountain dew on the couch, hoping the dm would do a party wipe and you were needed at the table again for lowbie levels.

I'm really glad this game had sporadic periods where melees had at least a moment of spotlight.

As for original intent? what was that exactly?
What was the original intent for ddo? because i can ask 20 players in game and get at least 10 different opinions about the subject.

Disagree, disagree, and disagree some more.

Mounts would be great. Don't care about ships. You missed the point, no surprise.

Many of the spells could break the game if they are not added carefully. All of them, ALL of them could be added in a way that does not harm the game if done so carefully.

I started playing DDO online for the dungeons and dragons part and no other reason. So, yeah, as a DnD player I expect this to be Dungeons and Dragons that I can play online and some some other game that uses that name but is NOT dungeons and dragons.

So, yeah, I expect to do all the stuff I can do on paper.

And, yeah, I will keep asking for it, and no, you can not stop me from asking for it or convince me this game doesn't have to be dungeons and dragons anymore.

Go play Wow and

Stop trying to destroy dungeons and dragons!

[whoolsey]

Disagree, disagree, and disagree some more.

Mounts would be great. Don't care about ships. You missed the point, no surprise.

Many of the spells could break the game if they are not added carefully. All of them, ALL of them could be added in a way that does not harm the game if done so carefully.

I started playing DDO online for the dungeons and dragons part and no other reason. So, yeah, as a DnD player I expect this to be Dungeons and Dragons that I can play online and some some other game that uses that name but is NOT dungeons and dragons.

So, yeah, I expect to do all the stuff I can do on paper.

And, yeah, I will keep asking for it, and no, you can not stop me from asking for it or convince me this game doesn't have to be dungeons and dragons anymore.

Go play Wow and

Stop trying to destroy dungeons and dragons!

Disagree on what basis?

What use is a horse? most of the time we run faster then a D&D horse anyway. we can't bring them in 85% of the dungeons, every lv 5+ dungeon would be a huge thread to the horse, causes clipping issues, etc, remember, these are the dev's that choose not to implement visible cloaks. Why do the dev's have to spend so much dev time on what is in essence a large cosmetic? in a world setting where horses are barely used anymore due to all the tech, there is 1 house that deals with more fantastical mounts but i think flying mounts would be a whole other can of worms.
Another issue is that many people claim pets cause their pc to lag, what would a horse sized cosmetic pet you ride on cause? more lag for those people?

All spells could be added? Really?
So fly would break all the 3D quests in the game. from stk to flying straight to Aurgloroasa/Vella/etc we already have huge issues with difficulty being negated through distance, how is fly going to impact that? what about flying over a slayer zone untouched? etc, the list of issues with the fly spell alone is too long to put down.
wish, limited wish? how are you going to handle this? the mundane part of duplicating a lower level spell is moot, we don't use spell slots but mana, the rest of the spell options often contains spells that were left out of the game for a reason.
pass wall? stone to mud?, this negates a large part of a level, it allows you to go straight to the boss.
shape change, polymorf? how do you think this would work? we can't even get wolfs/bears right and that took m ages to make and caused enough problems to decide those were enough animal wild shapes. Many forms wouldn't even fit.
half the illusions wouldn't work (hence not in the game)
Many other spells have no function (speak to dead/animals/plants) or duplicate spells already in the game (maze, wich is a instakill spell)
Know direction? we can share a quest for that.
Time stop doesn't work since the game isn't turn based.
Undetectable Alignment? P&P Eberron doesn't work much with the alignment system like other settings and we in ddo can only play neutral or good, not evil.
Etc. Simply put, the game engine is limited, some things can't be done or would break the game, suggesting the dev's could add all the spells if done right suggests you don't know understands the game engine's limitations and the dev's skills/time and planning.

"So, yeah, I expect to do all the stuff I can do on paper. " this game resembles p&P but can't do actual pen and paper, it's more action orientated then a turn based table top game. there are different online solutions for that, including voip, dice rolling, map sharing and digital character sheets.
Fantasy Grounds (found in steam)
https://roll20.net/
google hangouts, skype, facetime, teamspeak, mumble, ventrillo, discord, etc all allow a group of people to play the "real" D&D of your choosing to be played online.

"Go play Wow and

Stop trying to destroy dungeons and dragons!"

Wow? really?
what kind of argument is that? what if i told you to go play P&P online (instead of suggesting it as an alternative) what good will that do, how will it convince people to do as you suggest?
Anyway, i have seen way to many like you the past decade come up with poorly though out idea's seeking dev attention, a great many times i have seen it backfire.
The dev's have limited resources and are slow to come into action or to repair mistakes.
I'm giving you feedback to make sure that dev time and effort hopefully doesn't get wasted on a whim, protecting my own interests, the last thing i want is to see ddo destroyed.
Your suggestions are at this point lacking thought, go, think about the feedback and come back in a week or so after you had a long think about it.

[nokowi]

Disagree, disagree, and disagree some more.

Mounts would be great. Don't care about ships.

Mounts would be great if DDO was a Sandbox.

As a bunch of instances, I don't really see the need for a mount.

DDO already has too many instant transport mechanisms to make a mount truly useful.

[Knobull]

Mounts would be great.

Go play Wow and

Stop trying to destroy dungeons and dragons!

[whoolsey]

ikr?

[TacoBob33]

Troll thread, pls close Cordo

[Wonedream]

Troll thread, pls close Cordo

Yes, the obvious and clear intent of your presence here is now revealed. It was see through to begin with. But now you have played your intention.

Cordovan is not yours to command, and you don't own these forums, nor DDO. Thread has nothing to do with trolling. I started a thread with the intent of sorting niches, and other people such as yourself show up, some saying useful things, some saying pointless things, then there is you are your antagonizing remarks, it looks to me like you are trying to inflame me so I say something out of anger, then you can declare trolling or whatever. I didn't invade your thread with useless remarks and belittling statements, you did to mine. If there is a troll, it is the one who can't seem to control himself, keeps clicking on a thread that no one forces him to click on, and keeps saying things that have nothing to do with the thread and are instead personal and pointed.

Go eat a taco bob.

[Wonedream]

Disagree on what basis?

What use is a horse? most of the time we run faster then a D&D horse anyway. we can't bring them in 85% of the dungeons, every lv 5+ dungeon would be a huge thread to the horse, causes clipping issues, etc, remember, these are the dev's that choose not to implement visible cloaks. Why do the dev's have to spend so much dev time on what is in essence a large cosmetic? in a world setting where horses are barely used anymore due to all the tech, there is 1 house that deals with more fantastical mounts but i think flying mounts would be a whole other can of worms.
Another issue is that many people claim pets cause their pc to lag, what would a horse sized cosmetic pet you ride on cause? more lag for those people?

Paper and pen basis, that is what basis. I can ride a mount on paper and pen, I want DnD to be online, not just what is convenient, but what makes DnD the game that it is.

I am not the only one either.

I want mounts.

I won't change my mind. If game adds mounts I will ride them and no one will stop me!

All spells could be added? Really?
So fly would break all the 3D quests in the game. from stk to flying straight to Aurgloroasa/Vella/etc we already have huge issues with difficulty being negated through distance, how is fly going to impact that? what about flying over a slayer zone untouched? etc, the list of issues with the fly spell alone is too long to put down.

Yeah, really, all spells can be added, but some would need requirements prepared first.

Fly would break the game? No, it would barely hurt it really. First off, they could bar fly from working in certain places. Second, they can make it a high level spell or epic only. Third, they could add flying monsters to make flying to the boss not so easy. Fourth, they could add sky traps that blow up if you get too close, or arrow traps that shoot poisonous arrows for quests like Maze of Madness.. now flying isn't so yay! There are lots of ways this spell could be added to the game, most quests would have you flying in a corridor, which isn't putting you way over every monsters head.

Plus, MONSTERS could cast FLY too... so it isn't gonna just be cake anymore.

And many games feature fly, and it is totally fun I have done it many times, and in DDO, where MAGIC and SPELLS are part of the identity, taking fly out is reducing DnD bit by bit, until it really isn't DnD anymore. This game needs FLY!

wish, limited wish? how are you going to handle this? the mundane part of duplicating a lower level spell is moot, we don't use spell slots but mana, the rest of the spell options often contains spells that were left out of the game for a reason.

Could also be easily added to the game. It would have to be controlled to an extent. And modified, but at least these two spells from DnD paper and Pen would be seen in the game. First, put a 1 or 2 day timer, or 1 or 2 hour timer, a long timer. Second, add rare ingredients for spell. Third limit the wish to a list of several common options... make it versitile to some extent.... so it can do many things and can act like many spells on demand.. with the right consideration it would not mess the game up and would be great fun to use.

pass wall? stone to mud?, this negates a large part of a level, it allows you to go straight to the boss.

Pass Wall, make it active for a few seconds, and if you are in a wall when it runs out, you die. Again put a long timer on it too, so yeah, you can pass a wall here and there, but no, you can't do it non stop. Also, if there are walls that are too easy to exploit, simply put a magic rune on them that prevents passwall from working there. They could also make it a high end spell.

Stone to mud would be a lot tougher if they made it so you can cast it on any wall. The requirements for that are probably not worth it, but the spell can still have its place as a combat spell against Stone Elementals and other stone creatures. And with it, they could add special walls that can be targeted to appear in future modules.

They could also simply bar it from working in certain modules where it would be too much work to place runes or such. Easy really.

shape change, polymorf? how do you think this would work? we can't even get wolfs/bears right and that took m ages to make and caused enough problems to decide those were enough animal wild shapes. Many forms wouldn't even fit.

These spells would take work, but they are in high demand. And they would not be impossible to do. Polymorph could offer you a selection of 10 choices, and shapechange can offer 10 more, though they would be more impressive. Wolf and bear are working fine, people like them and play them, and that is the most important part of them being added to the game. You wouldn't tell those who play bears and wolfs they can't do it now because it hasn't been fixed would you? This is what you are doing when you say Shapechange can't be done. It can.

half the illusions wouldn't work (hence not in the game)

They could work, they just need to be well thought out.

Many other spells have no function (speak to dead/animals/plants) or duplicate spells already in the game (maze, wich is a instakill spell)

Yes, and these spells should have function. This is Dungeons and Dragons, not compromised Dungeons and Dragons. For these spells to work, they need to add a reason to speak with the dead, or animals, and plants. Plants that are just part of the background could just say rubble, and they would just hear more noise. Certain plants, monster plants, could be a different case. There could be parts in the quest where there is no way to know certain things except by guessing or talking to a dead person. Maybe the rat in the sewer knows something you don't, and talking to him will save you a lot of trouble.

Again, these could be added and useful, but they would require some consideration and care. They would also make this game more dungeons and dragons and not something else!

Know direction? we can share a quest for that.

This spell would see function by showing a line to the quest, something most players wouldn't need, but new ones would appreciate. It could also be used in a quest to show the direction of the next objective. Or it could just flash an arrow near the player casting it. Some quests could be so tricky (a real maze for example) that this spell would be a must for making those quests easier.

Time stop doesn't work since the game isn't turn based.

Someone else already mentioned how to add this. They said to have the monsters dissappear for a bit. I think if the monsters just froze and couldn't be effected by anything that would be enough. It wouldn't effect fellow team players, a minor adjustment to make the spell easy to add to the game. And just replace turns with seconds

Undetectable Alignment? P&P Eberron doesn't work much with the alignment system like other settings and we in ddo can only play neutral or good, not evil.

Another spell the displays a missing aspect of DnD. Detecting alignment needs requirements to make useful and worth while. Right now it could be added with ease, cast it on a dog.. dog is neutral.. cast it on a ghoul... ghoul is chaotic evil... but if they added NPCs that offered to join the party, with a chance of really being helpful, betraying, stealing, etc... this spell would be very useful to cast on NPCs randomly showing up, detect alignment, he is choatic evil... don't let him join, he will likely try to kill us when we are hurting and take our stuff!

Maybe a NPC is just telling you something, go that way it is safer... again he is random so we can't memorize if he is lying or not. Detect alignment, he is evil.. good chance he is lying...

Stuff like this made paper and pen total fun, trying to figure out if someone can be trusted..

Adding this spells like these would greatly enhance DDO and make it closer to the paper and pen original!

Etc. Simply put, the game engine is limited, some things can't be done or would break the game, suggesting the dev's could add all the spells if done right suggests you don't know understands the game engine's limitations and the dev's skills/time and planning.

I understand their timing. I also understand that with skill, you can do all sorts of things with programming. A programmer would say it is impossible, a GOOD programmer would say it can be done and how long that would take.

"So, yeah, I expect to do all the stuff I can do on paper. " this game resembles p&P but can't do actual pen and paper, it's more action orientated then a turn based table top game. there are different online solutions for that, including voip, dice rolling, map sharing and digital character sheets.
Fantasy Grounds (found in steam)
https://roll20.net/
google hangouts, skype, facetime, teamspeak, mumble, ventrillo, discord, etc all allow a group of people to play the "real" D&D of your choosing to be played online.

"Go play Wow and

Stop trying to destroy dungeons and dragons!"

You are suggesting this game is less than dungeons and dragons, instead of being dungeons and dragons. I am an old player of Dungeons and Dragons and I am here online to play dungeons and dragons, not partial dungeons and dragons. This means I want fly, detect alignment... mounts, and all paper and pen options. Give it time, budget, and vision and it will happen.

Wow? really?
what kind of argument is that? what if i told you to go play P&P online (instead of suggesting it as an alternative) what good will that do, how will it convince people to do as you suggest?
Anyway, i have seen way to many like you the past decade come up with poorly though out idea's seeking dev attention, a great many times i have seen it backfire.
The dev's have limited resources and are slow to come into action or to repair mistakes.
I'm giving you feedback to make sure that dev time and effort hopefully doesn't get wasted on a whim, protecting my own interests, the last thing i want is to see ddo destroyed.
Your suggestions are at this point lacking thought, go, think about the feedback and come back in a week or so after you had a long think about it.

I know they have limited resources. Which is why I said they should add a little at a time starting with the easiest ones.

Rome was not built in a day.

You are saying DDO can not be like paper and pen. I am saying it can. That is the difference between us. They should focus on content updates, and balances, bugs, gear, classes, etc, but they should also be chipping away at this list, and asking themselves "how can we bring the Dungeons and Dragons roll playing paper and pen experience into an online experience to the fullest possible measure?".

The game is called Dungeons and Dragons online for a reason.

[Wonedream]

Mounts would be great if DDO was a Sandbox.

As a bunch of instances, I don't really see the need for a mount.

DDO already has too many instant transport mechanisms to make a mount truly useful.

Paper and Pen is the biggest reason for that need. We want this to be dungeons and dragons online, so that when people come here for that experience they get that experience.

This is a game for the imagination and letting us do a lot with it. A lot of players would just like to ride a horse.

As to the instances, and smaller places where they would be more ackward, simple bar mounts from certain quests, let them be used in slayer and in other quests. "Your horse refuses to enter that tiny little cave", "your horse has a feeling that prevents it from preceding any further".

Mounts could bring in... JOUSTING... tournaments... a bit of PvP or go against the computer, jousting would be fun. It would also be fun to charge up to a monster with a lance and pin it for heavy damage. Or maybe they come charging at us with lances??? Fun stuff!

Mount fighting could involve horse kicks and stomps, and for smaller creatures overrun. Fun!

Mounts could add speed to the time it takes from quest to quest, something players who want speed would not argue with.

Mounts would open up a niche too, for people who like this (there are race games and horse games already...) If they offered variety, and differences, and race tracks, mounts could become a big part of the fun. It could even become a separate game within a game, still DDO because you can ride mounts on paper and pen, still DDO because you can JOUST on paper and pen, still DDO because you can race on Paper and Pen.

They got us skying on a frozen river already, and that is fun. It isn't mandatory, and it goes to show the DDO is adding game within game, there are other examples of them doing this already too.

Mounts would be great! Sooner or later I believe they are going to add them anyways :P