IS TRing broken and should we be giving a new way to avoid TRing and enjoy endgame?

[Wonedream]

Looking at all the talk about TRing in the past, and now how TRing is turning into a bug nightmare that kills your power instead of builds it... losing gear, tombs, slower loading, bugs... cant advance messages, losing trees, etc...

I think it is time to ask, should we be giving another OPTION so we are not forced to TR but can still get PLs... perhaps a lvl 30 raid???

Who is sick and tired of TRing... raise your hand!

And if you like TRing, what I am suggesting is TWO OPTIONS, one for those who don't mind risking their gear, tombs, and getting TR bugs and doing this to repeat the same stuff over..

And one for those of us who HATE IT and want endgame and think TRing is the dumbest thing ever and really really really despise it!!!

[TDarkchylde]

The last time we had an actual, non-TR-driven endgame around here, it was BORING. And the poll in this thread is biased.

If it's broken, sure, fix it - but NO ONE is forced to TR. "But the past life powercreep" - news flash, you don't NEED them to do the job! There's no content in the game that says "you must have this many past lives to enter." None. It makes things a bit easier, and having past lives does make some specific builds work a lot better, but by no means are they mandatory unless you want to steamroll the absolute hardest-difficulty content in the game, which no one here is entitled to be able to do. If you're seeing your character as gimped without all the past lives, put in the same work we did and get them. Or don't! No one's stopping you, neither is anyone forcing you, except you.

I have first and second life characters that do the same exact job in the current endgame content as uber completionists and do it 99% as well, which is good enough to run content with my guildies.

[SerPounce]

I love the poll's wording, but you probably should have thrown in that people who like TR hate puppies and ice cream.

I know this is a favorite hobby horse on the forums, but every quest since the cap increase has had legendary versions of the new quests right? I get the reaper XP complaints, and agree that there should be a cap bonus, but I don't think the claim that current development has been ignoring cap play generally really matches the facts. This is a small game with a small staff and therefore slow development. If all you want to do is run new quests on your capped toon then there's not going to be that much stuff to do. Maybe just log out between updates and do something else?

[Renvar]

So the choices are:

I am not happy

Everyone should have to TR

or

I don't know anything.

Great poll. Lol.

[Dragavon]

To say that you are forced to TR is completely ridiculous.

This is a game, and it is your choice to play it. It is your choice what you do when you are playing.

If you dont like it stop playing.

[J-mann]

"forced" to tr? just like I will be "forced" to grind a couple of quests at cap for SW? Personally TRing is a hell of a lot more fun than cap because I can try different builds and have a much larger variaty of quests and the progression feels much more meaningful (levels matter) imo epics are pretty boring. My only sadness with tr is that so many builds develop so late due to dev choices that they are effectively locked to epics only.

[blerkington]

They need to fix reincarnation so people can do it safely, and also provide a decent incentive for running content at cap.

If these two ways to play the game both work and are enjoyable, the game gains longevity from letting its customers being able to switch between them. When they get sick of one, they can do the other for a while.

The wording of the poll is pretty ridiculous btw, so I didn't vote, but that doesn't mean the discussion can't be sensible.

Thanks.

[Wonedream]

... but by no means are they mandatory unless you want to steamroll the absolute hardest-difficulty content in the game, which no one here is entitled to be able to do. ....

Hahaha, so if you want to be able to take on the hardest difficulty in the game you need PLs you are saying...

Then you turn around and contradict yourself, saying no one is forcing...

The point of any game is to do the best, meaning best challenge, etc...

Others will get this, you probably won't.

Enjoy your "endgame"... ahem.. I mean endless repetition game...

[Wonedream]

"forced" to tr? just like I will be "forced" to grind a couple of quests at cap for SW? Personally TRing is a hell of a lot more fun than cap because I can try different builds and have a much larger variaty of quests and the progression feels much more meaningful (levels matter) imo epics are pretty boring. My only sadness with tr is that so many builds develop so late due to dev choices that they are effectively locked to epics only.

You can also make alts to try different builds, and if there was a decent endgame, you could keep them instead of deleting them.

Easy really.

TRing sucks.

[Wonedream]

So the choices are:

I am not happy

Everyone should have to TR

or

I don't know anything.

Great poll. Lol.

Basically yeah, saying it how it is and how so many have argued that it is in the past. Great poll indeed because it is accurate about TRing and that TRing is a prerequisite for taking on highest challenges (lvl 30 reaper 10). Someone else already pointed that out in this thread.

Sure you don't HAVE to do that, unless you want to take on best challenge.. then you HAVE to do that.. which takes more time then it should take, and is done in a way that is not to the preference of everyone, nor a majority of players, which is why so many others have already moved on and left DDO...

I am left debating with the one's who stayed because they like this grindy boring repetition for some reason.

My back up is long gone...

I stand alone in speaking what is right.


But I stand and here I am speaking, saying what some do not want to hear, but what must be stated because it is true.

[Wonedream]

They need to fix reincarnation so people can do it safely, and also provide a decent incentive for running content at cap.

If these two ways to play the game both work and are enjoyable, the game gains longevity from letting its customers being able to switch between them. When they get sick of one, they can do the other for a while.

The wording of the poll is pretty ridiculous btw, so I didn't vote, but that doesn't mean the discussion can't be sensible.

Thanks.

I agree with your overall solution ideas here.

As to the wording of the poll, though you may not get it, it was made to seem ridiculous because what it is talking about is ridiculous so how do you approach that without conveying it?

Voters... they voted because they understand what is being said and agree... so what is ridiculous is what poll talks about, but not the poll itself.

That means... the game FORCING us to TR in order to achieve the ability to take on the highest difficult rating, which adds up to 100+ times, is a lousy awful wicked stupid thing!

We are not forced to play the game even, but please read sentence above this one and let it sink in..

And now these bugs o.O

It looks pathetic to be honest, a busted system based on greed used to keep players playing due to lack of content due to lack of reasonable and well thought out approach to long term game making solutions...

TRing is LACK OF CONTENT quick fix band aid.

If the game had a way of generating content on demand, or if there was already somehow endless content, TRing would not be needed to keep people playing, nor would anyone bother with it.

[Isolani]

I would guess that it is a lot more profitable for SSG to have people TRing compared to SSG spending a lot of resources developing more endgame. If there was any money in doing endgame content for DDO, SSG would be doing it.

Selling xp boosts, tomes, xp stones, TR hearts, etc to people playing the same content over and over again sounds a lot more profitable than developing expensive new endgame content that many people won't ever play.

[die]

I am from the school, don't force anyone to do something they don't want to do. In DDO you do not have to TR. Now with that said, I am not a big fan of the TR wheel, I have a 3rd life pally that can solo raids (some) I play with Completionist friends and hold my own, (really good build) and I think the player has a whole lot to do with how good his or her character performs.

If I had my way we would go back to late 2007, The orchard is released and no one can complete the Abbot with out the exploit which was fixed quick. There would be death penalties and everyone had every class as an alt at end game so there was no problem filling raids or partys.

and on a side note.. I love reaper, even though all my friends are gone for the most part and I have only been able to play reaper a few times.

-Doom

[Wonedream]

I am from the school, don't force anyone to do something they don't want to do. In DDO you do not have to TR. Now with that said, I am not a big fan of the TR wheel, I have a 3rd life pally that can solo raids (some) I play with Completionist friends and hold my own, (really good build) and I think the player has a whole lot to do with how good his or her character performs.

If I had my way we would go back to late 2007, The orchard is released and no one can complete the Abbot with out the exploit which was fixed quick. There would be death penalties and everyone had every class as an alt at end game so there was no problem filling raids or partys.

and on a side note.. I love reaper, even though all my friends are gone for the most part and I have only been able to play reaper a few times.

-Doom

Ditto that.

I could not have said it better myself :P

Specially this part "There would be death penalties and everyone had every class as an alt at end game so there was no problem filling raids or partys."

And I also love reaper, just not TRing

[blerkington]

I agree with your overall solution ideas here.

As to the wording of the poll, though you may not get it, it was made to seem ridiculous because what it is talking about is ridiculous so how do you approach that without conveying it?

Voters... they voted because they understand what is being said and agree... so what is ridiculous is what poll talks about, but not the poll itself.

That means... the game FORCING us to TR in order to achieve the ability to take on the highest difficult rating, which adds up to 100+ times, is a lousy awful wicked stupid thing!

We are not forced to play the game even, but please read sentence above this one and let it sink in..

And now these bugs o.O

It looks pathetic to be honest, a busted system based on greed used to keep players playing due to lack of content due to lack of reasonable and well thought out approach to long term game making solutions...

TRing is LACK OF CONTENT quick fix band aid.

If the game had a way of generating content on demand, or if there was already somehow endless content, TRing would not be needed to keep people playing, nor would anyone bother with it.

No, it's not that I don't get it. It's that there clearly are other ways to look at this issue apart from the ones you've presented.

Your survey is very biased. The options are to say we hate reincarnation, or we feel forced to do it, or that we don't know enough to have an opinion.

But very obviously there should be other options. What are people who are enjoying reincarnation meant to say? What about people who are playing the game but don't feel the need to reincarnate because they are doing well at and enjoying the game that way? These types of people do exist, as even a cursory examination of the forums will tell you.

You may not want people to say these things, but their opinions are still significant and if this was even a half serious attempt at a survey it would be important to know what proportion of the survey population they are. You have to at least try to cover other options.

These surveys have unleashed a new wave of stupid on the forums. Ask a loaded question, get a few responses, and then draw unsupported conclusions from that 'data' and what do you have? A big fat pile of nothing useful, that's what.

I've argued in several other threads that I think reaper was poorly implemented, that it doesn't offer enough content at cap and incentive to play there, and I also tried to encourage a discussion about how SSG could monetise play at cap so they could get away from their over-reliance on reincarnation as a revenue source. I've also spent a lot of time trying to get across just how serious the bugs with the TR process are and why customers affected by it should be better supported.

But while you and I may even share some of the same opinions about the state of the game, I still think these polls are a waste of time generally and in particular this one of yours is very badly constructed.

Thanks.

PS: if it's not clear enough already, here's another example of a worthless survey:

1. I think every little thing about DDO is juuuuuust perfect
2. I hate everything, except going to the graveyard at night to have my wicked way with corpses. Also, I drown and eat puppies for fun.
3. My opinion is worthless because it doesn't fit into the first two narrowly defined categories.

See?

[Wonedream]

...

Your survey is very biased. The options are to say we hate reincarnation,

or we feel forced to do it,

or that we don't know enough to have an opinion.

...

I wish you'd pay more careful attention to things before running with an idea about what I said and then this?

You missed an option thus that is incorrect.

You separated the first option into two options by your usage of the word OR... however, the first option is the combination of those two I underlined, look at OP!

Option one is HATE TRing and feel like we are forced. YES, people DO feel that way, thus I provided an outlet option for them to express and vote on.

You can't control the panel with your "biased" idea when you can't even accurately recognize what the poll was.

Now for that second option, that option you missed, and did not remind others of, but in missing them made a misinforming statement whilst advertising me as a biased poll maker!

It is: "No, everyone should have to TR, they just need to fix the bugs (if that ever happens)"

This is the option for those who do not HATE TRing, they can vote here to express their support for TRing, and obviously if there are bugs, as these forums are reporting (take a look), those bugs SHOULD be fixed.

I am providing an option for those who LIKE TRing. And do not wish to vote in a way as to express their frustration for something they like and support.

You obviously missed that, which is probably why you think the poll is biased, but IT IS NOT!

Now for that 3rd option, yes you are correct, it is for those who just don't know enough to make up their minds.

Its an easy poll, you can try to complicate it all you want, but trust me, your only complicating it for yourself

[Renvar]

I wish you'd pay more careful attention to things before running with an idea about what I said and then this?

You missed an option thus that is incorrect.

You separated the first option into two options by your usage of the word OR... however, the first option is the combination of those two I underlined, look at OP!

Option one is HATE TRing and feel like we are forced. YES, people DO feel that way, thus I provided an outlet option for them to express and vote on.

You can't control the panel with your "biased" idea when you can't even accurately recognize what the poll was.

Now for that second option, that option you missed, and did not remind others of, but in missing them made a misinforming statement whilst advertising me as a biased poll maker!

It is: "No, everyone should have to TR, they just need to fix the bugs (if that ever happens)"

This is the option for those who do not HATE TRing, they can vote here to express their support for TRing, and obviously if there are bugs, as these forums are reporting (take a look), those bugs SHOULD be fixed.

I am providing an option for those who LIKE TRing. And do not wish to vote in a way as to express their frustration for something they like and support.

You obviously missed that, which is probably why you think the poll is biased, but IT IS NOT!

Now for that 3rd option, yes you are correct, it is for those who just don't know enough to make up their minds.

Its an easy poll, you can try to complicate it all you want, but trust me, your only complicating it for yourself

Nah. The easy poll would be:

Yes, TRing is broken/I would like a way to avoid TRing.

No, TRing is not broken/I do not want a way to avoid TRing.

I don't care. I don't TR.

That would be a poll that just asks WHAT people think. Is TR Broken. Yes or No. Do you want a way to avoid it? Yes or No.

Your poll adds in unnecessary adjectives and opinions, such as "I hate TRing" and "I feel forced to TR". Those get into WHY they may say yes or no. And there are many reasons why people may answer yes or no. For example, there is no option for "I like TRing. I don't feel forced. I enjoy it. The process is fine.". And this is a valid opinion. It might not be yours. Or one you can comprehend, but there are people who play DDO who feel that way. The fact that you leave this off (or refuse to make your answers general enough that they WHY people feel the way they do is not covered) makes the poll slanted.

I think you are blinded by your obvious disdain for TRing and the lack of end game. Which is fine. There are a lot of people who feel the way you do and who want a better end game. I do, too. But I also enjoy TRing. I like both. That isn't an option in your poll either. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think SSG has created a lot of compelling reasons to TR. I'd like to see SSG develop a lot of compelling reasons to stay at cap now.

[Cantor]

Hahaha, so if you want to be able to take on the hardest difficulty in the game you need PLs you are saying...

Actually he said steamroll it. Big difference.

[Wonedream]

Nah. The easy poll would be:

Yes, TRing is broken/I would like a way to avoid TRing.

No, TRing is not broken/I do not want a way to avoid TRing.

I don't care. I don't TR.

That would be a poll that just asks WHAT people think. Is TR Broken. Yes or No. Do you want a way to avoid it? Yes or No.

Your poll adds in unnecessary adjectives and opinions, such as "I hate TRing" and "I feel forced to TR". Those get into WHY they may say yes or no. And there are many reasons why people may answer yes or no. For example, there is no option for "I like TRing. I don't feel forced. I enjoy it. The process is fine.". And this is a valid opinion. It might not be yours. Or one you can comprehend, but there are people who play DDO who feel that way. The fact that you leave this off (or refuse to make your answers general enough that they WHY people feel the way they do is not covered) makes the poll slanted.

I think you are blinded by your obvious disdain for TRing and the lack of end game. Which is fine. There are a lot of people who feel the way you do and who want a better end game. I do, too. But I also enjoy TRing. I like both. That isn't an option in your poll either. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think SSG has created a lot of compelling reasons to TR. I'd like to see SSG develop a lot of compelling reasons to stay at cap now.

Yes it adds NECESSARY OPINION and look, people who understand it are voting on THAT opinion.

It must frustrate you that you can not isolate me as some freak and then ask for a lock down on thread to gag the truth!

Here it is, in your face. LOOK AT IT!

There is a percentage of players fed up with TRing and who have been asking for endgame for a long time now.

But do go on pretending they are being "unnecessary" about it and see how far that works..

We will continue to speak out loud WE HATE TRing and WANT ENDGAME.

You will never EVER hear the end of it either.

Doesn't matter if this thread gets locked or not. More will appear from OTHER people which is already happening right now if you look about.

I am just far more clear and vocal then most, and that threatens your TR bubble fantasy that everyone should appreciate and like TRing.


TRing sucks and the people who voted they hate it obviously agree.

I won't resort to politically correct game talk... such a thing does not exist. I won't tip toe around the truth so you can more easily ignore it. I won't whisper and gasp in the night as my favorite game is turned into a TR nightmare of yawns.


I will fight for ENDGAME and for ENDGAME club!

And you can not stop me!

[TDarkchylde]

Your poll adds in unnecessary adjectives and opinions, such as "I hate TRing" and "I feel forced to TR". Those get into WHY they may say yes or no. And there are many reasons why people may answer yes or no. For example, there is no option for "I like TRing. I don't feel forced. I enjoy it. The process is fine.". And this is a valid opinion. It might not be yours. Or one you can comprehend, but there are people who play DDO who feel that way. The fact that you leave this off (or refuse to make your answers general enough that they WHY people feel the way they do is not covered) makes the poll slanted.

I think you are blinded by your obvious disdain for TRing and the lack of end game. Which is fine. There are a lot of people who feel the way you do and who want a better end game. I do, too. But I also enjoy TRing. I like both. That isn't an option in your poll either. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. I think SSG has created a lot of compelling reasons to TR. I'd like to see SSG develop a lot of compelling reasons to stay at cap now.

Quoted for absolute truth. If the option the quoted poster had given (I like TRing, I don't feel forced, it's fine) had been in there, I'd have voted for that. Not going to vote in OP's poll that puts words in my mouth.

I like TRing. I don't feel forced. I enjoy it. The process is fine. (And if there are bugs with it, fix them already, but that's not going to stop me from doing another TR.)