Can we fix cyclonic blasst

[Hobgoblin]

from Lynns thread

can wefix cyclonic blast? i only notice on my new monk but i still take damage even on a made save.

as far as i can tell - if i make the save i dont fall down and take damage - if i fail i fall down and take damage

it is a reflex save, so i shouldnt be taking damage on a made save

from ddowiki:
You send a twisting torrent of wind toward your enemies that deals 1d3+3 damage per caster level (Maximum damage 15d3+45.) to targets in its path. A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half. If the target fails its Reflex save, it must make a Strength check or Dexterity check to negate be knocked prone. The spell also clears away all lingering effects in its path, such as clouds and Wall of Fire (including friendly effects).

[Greantun]

from Lynns thread

can wefix cyclonic blast? i only notice on my new monk but i still take damage even on a made save.

as far as i can tell - if i make the save i dont fall down and take damage - if i fail i fall down and take damage

it is a reflex save, so i shouldnt be taking damage on a made save

from ddowiki:
You send a twisting torrent of wind toward your enemies that deals 1d3+3 damage per caster level (Maximum damage 15d3+45.) to targets in its path. A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half. If the target fails its Reflex save, it must make a Strength check or Dexterity check to negate be knocked prone. The spell also clears away all lingering effects in its path, such as clouds and Wall of Fire (including friendly effects).

According to the wiki (from your quote above), you should still take damage even if you make the save.

A successful Reflex save reduces the damage by half.

[Hobgoblin]

According to the wiki (from your quote above), you should still take damage even if you make the save.

with evasion?

i dont think so

When you make a successful Reflex save to avoid damage, you suffer no damage instead of half damage.

and ya i should have made that clear in the op that i was talking about evasion and the spell

[Jomee]

with evasion?

i dont think so

When you make a successful Reflex save to avoid damage, you suffer no damage instead of half damage.

and ya i should have made that clear in the op that i was talking about evasion and the spell

Make sure you're not encumbered or using a large shield. You can make a successful reflex save but will not evade if encumbered.

[Hobgoblin]

Make sure you're not encumbered or using a large shield. You can make a successful reflex save but will not evade if encumbered.

ya pure monk not encumbered

[Hobgoblin]

so why doesnt a reflex save with evasion help with this again?

[Hobgoblin]

since its the week now,


up you go.


still not understanding why you take damage from this if you have evasion and make your save......

[Hobgoblin]

up.

hoping to get some light on this.

doing a more controlled test rather then just looking at combat logs now


in von 2 normal

(Combat): You attempt to save versus cyclonic blast. You roll a 17 (+66): save!

(Combat): Thaarak Hound's cyclonic blast hit you for 16 points of damage.

I won't write down all of the numbers, but I let this go on for 5 minutes and did not roll a single 1. I took damage on each save.

level 28 monk

improved evasion

just some data points

[Tyrande]

I believe the spell works this way:

If you fail the save, you take full damage *AND* being knocked down prone.

So, as a character with improved evasion; if you fail the save, you take half damage *AND* being knocked prone.

If you made the save, you take half damage *AND* NOT being knocked prone.

With improved evasion, somehow you *STILL* takes half damage with the save. I think the save part is not being knocked prone.

[Hobgoblin]

I believe the spell works this way:

If you fail the save, you take full damage *AND* being knocked down prone.

So, as a character with improved evasion; if you fail the save, you take half damage *AND* being knocked prone.

If you made the save, you take half damage *AND* NOT being knocked prone.

With improved evasion, somehow you *STILL* takes half damage with the save. I think the save part is not being knocked prone.

yes this is how it works right now

but it should be - you dont take damage at all if you make your save - just like everyother reflex save in the game

[Hobgoblin]

and up you go.

it seems the way to get change is to be squeaky.

so

squeak squeak squeak

[Arkantios]

and up you go.

it seems the way to get change is to be squeaky.

so

squeak squeak squeak

This spell is meant to deal half damage even on a reflex save with improved evasion. It's been like this for years because that's how the spell works. Even if you look in the Spell Compendium on page 57 from Dungeons and Dragons texts it states that you can only reflex for half. This is probably part of the reason why they gave this spell to Reapers along with other.....aggressive spells like Polar Ray.

[Hobgoblin]

This spell is meant to deal half damage even on a reflex save with improved evasion. It's been like this for years because that's how the spell works. Even if you look in the Spell Compendium on page 57 from Dungeons and Dragons texts it states that you can only reflex for half. This is probably part of the reason why they gave this spell to Reapers along with other.....aggressive spells like Polar Ray.

When you make a successful Reflex save to avoid damage, you suffer no damage instead of half damage.

definition of evasion.

in save description from spell

Reflex save takes half damage and avoids Strength check or Dexterity check to negate knocked Prone

to compare:
fireball

Reflex save takes half damage

so tell me why it doesnt save?

[Hipparan]

When you make a successful Reflex save to avoid damage, you suffer no damage instead of half damage.

definition of evasion.

in save description from spell

Reflex save takes half damage and avoids Strength check or Dexterity check to negate knocked Prone

to compare:
fireball

Reflex save takes half damage

so tell me why it doesnt save?

It's possible that the way the saves are coded that the Strength/Dex check interferes with how the reflex save normally works on that spell. Similar things happen with other spells like Sunburst. Sunburst is a level 8 spell, but is blocked by a lich's mantle of invulnerability (blocks spells level 4 and under). The reason it is blocked is because of wonky coding that counts the blind effect as a level 2 spell probably because it the effect may be copied over from the Blindness spell. Cyclonic Blast is also blocked by the mantle despite being a level 5 spell. This is because the knockdown effect is probably copied over from Gust of Wind.

[Hobgoblin]

so since coco has responded today -


why does this spell not work with evasion?

[Hobgoblin]

so, bump!

i have filed a bug report on this

[Fivetigers33]

so, bump!

i have filed a bug report on this

Sounds broken to me. It's funny at the lack of understanding about Evasion. I will admit I was naïve once too though. I will never forget the first time I ever had evasion. Lvl 20 bard swashbuckler. I thought the game was bugged because I wasn't taking damage... Then I realized how glorious Evasion was.

[Hobgoblin]

so lets go up!

ran invaders last night, with imp evasion and was taking around 150 points of damage on a save!

[Niminae]

I'd like to see this spell fixed. Thaarak Hounds will simply destroy you in high skull reapers despite Improved Evasion, and that's not how things are supposed to work*. Spending two feats should give you an effect that applies as intended.


* Before the inevitable replies, I get it: "The DM is trying to kill you." I'm not asking for a reaper nerf, I'm asking for an Evasion/Improved Evasion fix. He can try to kill me via lowering my damage, lowering my self heals, boosting enemy damage, spawning higher level Champions, and adding in Reapers all he likes. Killing me because he simply ignores my feats is not a legitimate part of the package.

[Spadedragon]

Evasion only works against certain spells. Cyclonic blast is not one of those spells apparently. It would be nice to have a complete list of spells that evasion does work on but I've never seen that list compiled.