Druid destiny

[HastyPudding]

So, I'm about ready to TR my caster character (19th life) again out of boredom and I'm doing my third and final druid life (yeah right, like I did my 3rd/4th/5th and final cleric, wiz, and sorc lives...). I've got all my caster destinies maxed out, but I can't decide on a good destiny for druid (my last 2 druid lives I didn't stay at cap long enough to actually do anything).

Naturally, he's going to be a pure caster druid (I dislike multiclassing my spellcasters, an 18/2 pali-sorc is as far as I'll go). Exalted angel is a nice destiny for caster druids, but it does almost nothing for the majority of druid spells (fire, lightning, and ice spells) other than light/positive spellpower and +3 dc's. Draconic has good boosts to spellpower, but the SLA's are all charisma or intelligence, not wisdom. Magister can be a nice boost to evocation spells, but it's in the same boat with draconic. Primal avatar just looks like a horrible destiny for caster druids, with very little spell-boosting options.

What do you guys usually run on your spellcasting druids?

[Lonnbeimnech]

Exalted angel. Twist in empyrean magic from crusader, and the dc boost from magister and you're set. Focus on fire/light spells.

[Hobgoblin]

shirardi is fun, but not op

sent make you really durable, but not much else

crusader is fun. bonus to fire/light conscrated ground twist in dc's from magistar/drac
angel is good as noted before
fate singer is not that bad

up to you really

[unbongwah]

...is there some reason Shiradi isn't on your list? Like, are you still working on your ERs in other spheres; or are you just trying to avoid the obvious choice?

[Panzermeyer]

It all depends on the kind of druid that you want.

An evoker can wreak havoc in Draconic.
You can be a great DPS caster in Shiradi.
You can be a great healer/caster/tank in Unyielding Sentinel
You can be great caster/healer in Divine Crusader
You can be great in Exalted Angel

Those really are some of the best destinies for a Druid caster.

It depends on your play style and what you like to do.
So it is all up to you.

What's the style you are looking for?

[HastyPudding]

...is there some reason Shiradi isn't on your list? Like, are you still working on your ERs in other spheres; or are you just trying to avoid the obvious choice?

I hate shiradi casters on principle, alone. I'll make a pure warforged barbarian with improved fortification before I make any sort of shiradi caster. That's just me.


I had thought of draconic, it's just the SLA's are charisma and intelligence-based, instead of wisdom, meaning they'll have a pretty low DC compared to anything you'd get from the divine or primal spheres. Exalted Angel is pretty much a straightforward, safe and strong destiny, but it adds nothing to your spellcasting other than light/positive (not that I mind, I have tons of cleric gear saved up that boost light spellpower).

I'm just looking for some overall usefulness, nothing in particular, which is what drew me to EA. I would like to be something other than a one-trick pony that does nothing but spams earthquake, ice storm, firewall, and regenerate. I do wish call lightning scaled better into epics. It's your primary damage from 6-19, then you hit 20 and mobs look at you like you rubbed your feet on the carpet and zapped them with your finger.

[Panzermeyer]

I had thought of draconic, it's just the SLA's are charisma and intelligence-based, instead of wisdom, meaning they'll have a pretty low DC compared to anything you'd get from the divine or primal spheres. Exalted Angel is pretty much a straightforward, safe and strong destiny, but it adds nothing to your spellcasting other than light/positive (not that I mind, I have tons of cleric gear saved up that boost light spellpower).

I found good success in Draconic on my caster druid.
When I built the druid for those lives I Maxed, Wisdom, put Con to 16 and dumped the rest in Int (I like skill points) you could do the opposite for UMD if you wish.

Having your Draconic feats as Ice or Fire melds well with the Druid.

If you are planning on farming for XP running EN or EH regularly you will not notice the lower DC's. I saw crits often enough on Energy Burst for excess of 10k that I was quite happy. Between that, dragon breath, dragon's roar, and whatnot it mixes the spell list up quite well.

I have not tried EA as with my final build and for my divine PL I will be running in US. But Druids need to boost so many elements, I personally would find it hard to boost yet another spell element, that really not not even mess well with any native spells other than two.

[HastyPudding]

I found good success in Draconic on my caster druid.
When I built the druid for those lives I Maxed, Wisdom, put Con to 16 and dumped the rest in Int (I like skill points) you could do the opposite for UMD if you wish.

Having your Draconic feats as Ice or Fire melds well with the Druid.

If you are planning on farming for XP running EN or EH regularly you will not notice the lower DC's. I saw crits often enough on Energy Burst for excess of 10k that I was quite happy. Between that, dragon breath, dragon's roar, and whatnot it mixes the spell list up quite well.

I have not tried EA as with my final build and for my divine PL I will be running in US. But Druids need to boost so many elements, I personally would find it hard to boost yet another spell element, that really not not even mess well with any native spells other than two.

Yeah, I don't run many EE's unless I'm running with the guild or such, and I'm more than happy to fall into a healing/support role during raids. I run EH 80% of the time, so I guess the DC's won't be much of an issue.

I guess I'll try draconic once he gets back to cap, if not I can always switch to EA and play with light spells.

[SirValentine]

...I can't decide on a good destiny for druid
...
Naturally, he's going to be a pure caster druid
...
Primal avatar just looks like a horrible destiny for caster druids, with very little spell-boosting options.

Really? What's wrong with Primal Avatar? Spell Power, Wisdom, some SLAs, summons boosts if you're into that. I'm not saying it's the best thing ever, but it looks OK to me.

I hate shiradi casters on principle, alone. I'll make a pure warforged barbarian with improved fortification before I make any sort of shiradi caster. That's just me.

While I share some distaste for the magic-missle-spamming-Shiradi-types, I personally don't see an issue with Druid Shiradi. Shiradi looks pretty much designed with Druids in mind.

[HastyPudding]

Really? What's wrong with Primal Avatar? Spell Power, Wisdom, some SLAs, summons boosts if you're into that. I'm not saying it's the best thing ever, but it looks OK to me.



While I share some distaste for the magic-missle-spamming-Shiradi-types, I personally don't see an issue with Druid Shiradi. Shiradi looks pretty much designed with Druids in mind.

The issue I have with primal avatar is it's just completely out-shown by draconic and exalted angel. Even magister can add more spellcasting ability than primal avatar. The main problem with avatar is it's too much of a hybrid destiny, being strong in neither weapon dps nor spellcasting. Also, the reliance on spirits for some abilities annoys me.

As to shiradi, those magic-missile spammers are the ones that completely turned it off, to me. I was once on my caster character (his 14th life, I think) as a sorcerer, with all my saved up gear, caster past lives, and arcane know-how, and some first lifer wizard with **** gear and no HP in shiradi was plowing through mobs almost as fast as I was. It was irritating, to say the least.

[unbongwah]

Weirdly enough, I found Primal Avatar to be a better complement for my TWF bard than for my druids: Balanced Atks, Symetric Strikes, Stormrage, and Nature's Fury boost my melee DPS (tho not as much as the "real" melee EDs); the persistent AoE buffs like Summer Smoke complement my songs and WC buffs; plus Rejuv Cocoon for cheap healing, ofc.

[HastyPudding]

Weirdly enough, I found Primal Avatar to be a better complement for my TWF bard than for my druids: Balanced Atks, Symetric Strikes, Stormrage, and Nature's Fury boost my melee DPS (tho not as much as the "real" melee EDs); the persistent AoE buffs like Summer Smoke complement my songs and WC buffs; plus Rejuv Cocoon for cheap healing, ofc.

To each his own, I guess. I've heard people playing bards in fatesinger and absolutely enjoying it, and I've heard of EK wizards playing in shadowdancer that make great characters.

Don't get me wrong, primal avatar seems like a decent destiny, it just doesn't have the spellcasting options of magister, angel, or draconic, and barely on par with crusader or fatesinger.

[newmart]

FOr Pure Druid Caster, Using Water Elemental, Maxing Cold and Eletric Spellpower, Primal Avatar and Shiradi are the best destinies.
Lets compare:

Primal Avatar:

30 spellpower all elements
5 caster lvs (usually ~50% bonus with main spells if are u using Master of Wilds. This is very overlooked because u need MoW to work at maximum potential.)
250 SP
Tsunami, that does 60d10 dmg at lv 30, that is a Wis based cold spell
Dryad (500-800 bolts on lv 30)
Summer Smoke
Storm Rage

Shiradi

31 spellpower
5 caster lvs
All procs
Obs.: Most druid spells hits multiple times (I belive that earthquake only do that miserable dmg (~16-20) to proc in shiradi. So Druid spell suits shiradi very well.

Draconic

30 spellpower one element
300 SP
2 dc, 2 max caster lv (can be twisted both)
Energy Burst and other actives, but all have long CD and CHA BASED DC (Means half or no dmg in most endgame scenarios) 30d15+30 at lv 30 (similar to Tsunami with cd and no cc)

Magister and Fatesinger cant really give dmg to water elemental cold druid and Exalted angel changes playstyle and focus light spell power. Maybe is viable to Fire elemental, but not Water for sure.

incresed caster lvs is where the power of Primal and Shiradi resides. U also needs Master of Wilds Feat to see their potential, also running in Dragonborn and Twisting caster lv from Draconic and increase caster lv even more, and they multiply with spellpower. For exemple if u have 500 cold spell power, a cold spell that does 2d10 dmg per caster lv, casting at lv 10 max, will do max (20).10 x 500% - 1000 dmg. With primal caster lvs u will do 15. 2d10 (500%) - 1500 dmg, 50% boost. Again MoW is needed to raise max caster lv.

Sure DC is important, but 3 DC from Exalted Angel can never do such difference in dmg, plus creeping cold, WoB, produce flame dont even have a dc.

Dryad and Stormrage are also vastly overlooked abilities. Dryad does 500-800 bolts, plus 50-100 thorns almost every 2 or 3 seconds at lv 30, a sure dps increase

Stormrage can look expansive at first glace but its 10d20 Eletric dmg for second, for 18 seconds, what means 180d20 eletric dmg for 50sp, or 18d20 for 5 sp. CD is shorter than duration so it means always active while u have sp. For comparison energy burst does 30d15+15 in lv30 (450 average) each 30 seconds, Stormrage does 300d20 (3000 average) in 30 seconds :O (single target tough)

Using Draconic actives u can have busts of dps, but cant you cant compare a creeping cold dot at 18 caster lv with a 28 caster lv creeping cold and 28 caster lv lightning bolt its about 50% more dmg for single target/sustained dps. They are also scale CHA and in endgame content they will always do half dmg or non if mob evades.

DPS and SP cost saver of MoW/Primal combination for pure druids is unmatched in my opinion. Not sure if Shiradi or Primal doing more, but sure i go Primal for some synergys, lore and playstyle.

[AzB]

FOr Pure Druid Caster, Using Water Elemental, Maxing Cold and Eletric Spellpower, Primal Avatar and Shiradi are the best destinies.
Lets compare:

Primal Avatar:

30 spellpower all elements
5 caster lvs (usually ~50% bonus with main spells if are u using Master of Wilds. This is very overlooked because u need MoW to work at maximum potential.)
250 SP
Tsunami, that does 60d10 dmg at lv 30, that is a Wis based cold spell
Dryad (500-800 bolts on lv 30)
Summer Smoke
Storm Rage

Looks good and has nice dps. I tried it out but it's far too squishy for solo LE and especially reaper. I don't like kiting and would rather be in US and able to take a couple hits. US gives me more AC, 30 more PRR, and 600 more hp.

But for a full group where you can stand back and cast, it's a nice alternative with decent dps.

And I still get tons of kills with Burst, it's not that hard to get a major INT plus item these days. Even with only a mid 40s int, it hits more often than not and does 10-16k damage to all the mobs around you. Nothing says get off me like a healthy burst.

[newmart]

Looks good and has nice dps. I tried it out but it's far too squishy for solo LE and especially reaper. I don't like kiting and would rather be in US and able to take a couple hits. US gives me more AC, 30 more PRR, and 600 more hp.

But for a full group where you can stand back and cast, it's a nice alternative with decent dps.

And I still get tons of kills with Burst, it's not that hard to get a major INT plus item these days. Even with only a mid 40s int, it hits more often than not and does 10-16k damage to all the mobs around you. Nothing says get off me like a healthy burst.

Energy Burst can be twisted. It seems to be a very good spell for Wis based caster because we are spending a lot of time leveling in Dailies EN, where anything hits. In serious LE, R1,2,3 Slaves this spell does nothing. Also very bad to be in close range to use in this dangerous situations.

I preffer twist caster lvs from same tree, or evocation cd reduction from Magister. For single target dps u can go Eletric instead Cold, use lightning bolt, call lightning storm, dryad, Quench, Stormrage, Avenging Storm and obliterate bosses.

U can also use wolf to tank more effectively than u. If u have all feats and buffs, considering sleet storm, few things gonna hit him. My wolf has 60+ stats, 200%+ fort, 150 PRR and Evasion. Shadowscale armor giver 60 DR. Usually Dryad heals him (and casts animal grown) so i dont even care about it unless its a boss, but he has 2k hp. The first 2 feats are ok to spend, but legendary feat its a big investiment, id like to say tough dryad and wolf are unkillable using it, ive tanked bosses up to R3 with wolf. U loss dps from elgendary feat, but less u would for being sentinel, counting also a little dps gain from pet and dryad atacks.

[AzB]

Energy Burst can be twisted. It seems to be a very good spell for Wis based caster because we are spending a lot of time leveling in Dailies EN, where anything hits. In serious LE, R1,2,3 Slaves this spell does nothing. Also very bad to be in close range to use in this dangerous situations.

Of course Burst can be twisted. So can Stormrage. But the difference in DC isn't much. With a single INT item (slavers +17) and nothing else to boost INT, my Burst DC is 51. Stormrage is a flat 50. Nothing can boost it. And with other boosts, like bard songs and debuffs, it gets slightly better. And as I mentioned, it's perfect for when you get mobbed. And in a tanky destiny like US, you can indeed run up and burst with no fear of dying. I use it in Slavers LE and low level reaper all the time, and burst hits more than it misses. Even half damage is 6k. Not really that bad for large groups of mobs as the total dps can be huge. Much more useful than Stormrage imo.

I preffer twist caster lvs from same tree, or evocation cd reduction from Magister. For single target dps u can go Eletric instead Cold, use lightning bolt, call lightning storm, dryad, Quench, Stormrage, Avenging Storm and obliterate bosses..

I agree, the additional dps from Primal does shine on boss fights. As far as twisting Magister or Draconic DC boosts, you can still do that in US.

U can also use wolf to tank more effectively than u. If u have all feats and buffs, considering sleet storm, few things gonna hit him. My wolf has 60+ stats, 200%+ fort, 150 PRR and Evasion. Shadowscale armor giver 60 DR. Usually Dryad heals him (and casts animal grown) so i dont even care about it unless its a boss, but he has 2k hp. The first 2 feats are ok to spend, but legendary feat its a big investiment, id like to say tough dryad and wolf are unkillable using it, ive tanked bosses up to R3 with wolf. U loss dps from elgendary feat, but less u would for being sentinel, counting also a little dps gain from pet and dryad atacks.

That's a huge investment into the wolf just to tank, especially when you can simply tank yourself with a much smaller investment. My build is similar to the GingerSpyce build, except that I trade off some of the smaller defensive feats (like shield mastery and heavy armor) for a FoD with a DC80 and some spell pen for FoD and WoB. The heavy armor really doesn't bring much at level 30 since there are a couple of very nice medium armors available that are very close to the same level of defense. My water elemental caster has 200ac, 200prr, 245% fort, and nearly 2000hp in US. He's usually the last one standing in a wipe, and usually can save the day if things aren't too grim. I've given up a bit of offense, but still manage to be 1 or 2 in the kill count, so he's not exactly weak.

But your ideas gave me some new ideas to try, so thank you for that!

[newmart]

Of course Burst can be twisted. So can Stormrage. But the difference in DC isn't much. With a single INT item (slavers +17) and nothing else to boost INT, my Burst DC is 51. Stormrage is a flat 50. Nothing can boost it. And with other boosts, like bard songs and debuffs, it gets slightly better. And as I mentioned, it's perfect for when you get mobbed. And in a tanky destiny like US, you can indeed run up and burst with no fear of dying. I use it in Slavers LE and low level reaper all the time, and burst hits more than it misses. Even half damage is 6k. Not really that bad for large groups of mobs as the total dps can be huge. Much more useful than Stormrage imo.



I agree, the additional dps from Primal does shine on boss fights. As far as twisting Magister or Draconic DC boosts, you can still do that in US.



That's a huge investment into the wolf just to tank, especially when you can simply tank yourself with a much smaller investment. My build is similar to the GingerSpyce build, except that I trade off some of the smaller defensive feats (like shield mastery and heavy armor) for a FoD with a DC80 and some spell pen for FoD and WoB. The heavy armor really doesn't bring much at level 30 since there are a couple of very nice medium armors available that are very close to the same level of defense. My water elemental caster has 200ac, 200prr, 245% fort, and nearly 2000hp in US. He's usually the last one standing in a wipe, and usually can save the day if things aren't too grim. I've given up a bit of offense, but still manage to be 1 or 2 in the kill count, so he's not exactly weak.

But your ideas gave me some new ideas to try, so thank you for that!

U should not compare Energy Burst with Stormrage. Energy burst is comparable to Tsunami. Burst does 1d15+15 and Tsunami 2d10+60 per lv. Knockdowns, Lower CD and WIS based. Clearly superior in terms of dps for druid.

Your build is a tank build. Idk how long u take to kill mobs, but i bet takes long in LE. Using Druid in primal u kill just as faster a sorc. To be pure DPS druid i would trade augument summoning for greater evocation focus, and epic augument summoning for epic evocation focus or enbolden. MoW is taken at lv 27 and Intensify at lv 30. So u lose only 2 dc up to here (or 3 if using enbolden, but is very costly....). I dont belive 2 dc makes all that difference. Wolf and dryad can do more dps than 2 evocation DC for sure.

Sure thats a lot of flavor doing a ultra pure druid, it may not be the best build per se, but is the only way to get maximum dps. If u kill a lot like u said, u have uber gear or people with u dont have uber gear. I've seen full tanks toping in kill. People are just bad. I understand the reason that make u going US, but for caster druid not even using a shield is needed to max dps.

[AzB]

U should not compare Energy Burst with Stormrage. Energy burst is comparable to Tsunami. Burst does 1d15+15 and Tsunami 2d10+60 per lv. Knockdowns, Lower CD and WIS based. Clearly superior in terms of dps for druid.

Tsunami has a limited area of effect. Pretty narrow very close to the caster, and it widens as it goes out a bit. And you have to aim. Burst is 360 degrees and has pretty good range. I have to admit that both of them together are a pretty potent combo. But to pick one or the other, burst is easier to use under duress, and *usually* (obviously dependent on mob congregation) affects more mobs.

Your build is a tank build. Idk how long u take to kill mobs, but i bet takes long in LE. Using Druid in primal u kill just as faster a sorc. To be pure DPS druid i would trade augument summoning for greater evocation focus, and epic augument summoning for epic evocation focus or enbolden. MoW is taken at lv 27 and Intensify at lv 30. So u lose only 2 dc up to here (or 3 if using enbolden, but is very costly....). I dont belive 2 dc makes all that difference. Wolf and dryad can do more dps than 2 evocation DC for sure..

I don't really bother too much with Evo DCs as Earthquake is about the only thing that matters, and it hits pretty consistently with a DC in the mid 70s. So I don't waste feats on more Evo DC. Embolden ends up only adding 1 DC for FoD and WoB, so I don't bother with it. I do also take MoW and Intensify. And I don't have any problems killing mobs. The real difference I noticed trying your ideas was that I could kill red names faster. But again, it's a playstyle preference, with the trade off being slightly less single target dps for noticeably better defenses. I'm not a kiter, and in Primal I spent way too much time and sp healing myself that it also affected dps. Again, if I played with a static traditional group with a meat shield or two, I would probably play Primal because I could stand way back and blast away. But these days, if you can find a group it's full of warlocks and ranged toons that run around kiting and a squishy caster that gets agro won't last long. I really prefer being able to take a few hits and shrug them off. And in reaper 5 and up, simply not being one shot is pretty nice.

And if I have to play solo, it's much faster to stand in the middle of the mobs and EQ, burst, SoV, etc, than it is to run around kiting trying not to get mobbed... even with a little less dps.

Sure thats a lot of flavor doing a ultra pure druid, it may not be the best build per se, but is the only way to get maximum dps. If u kill a lot like u said, u have uber gear or people with u dont have uber gear. I've seen full tanks toping in kill. People are just bad. I understand the reason that make u going US, but for caster druid not even using a shield is needed to max dps.

I do have some pretty nice gear, and I have tons of past lives as well. I'm sure that helps my particular build. I did get destroyed last night by a wizard in LE Tempest Spine R5. He had twice my kills. But anytime you see a wizard with 4000hp and 5000sp, you know they're pretty hardcore. But that's not the norm.