Should reaper enhancement trees be disabled for raids?

[slarden]

The community seemed united against reaper enhancements trees since they were first mentioned. I think at this point they are here to stay, but I am wondering if the community would support reaper enhancements not working in raids? I am not arguing for or against the idea. I am just curious what the community thinks and the reasons why.

Poll: Should reaper enhancements only work in non-raids?

Yes = Reaper enhancements should work in reaper quests only
No = Reaper enhancements should work in reaper quests and reaper raids.

[Avocado]

The community seemed united against reaper enhancements trees since they were first mentioned. I think at this point they are here to stay, but I am wondering if the community would support reaper enhancements not working in raids? I am not arguing for or against the idea. I am just curious what the community thinks and the reasons why.

Poll: Should reaper enhancements only work in non-raids?

Yes = Reaper enhancements should work in reaper quests only
No = Reaper enhancements should work in reaper quests and reaper raids.

Are you freaking kidding me? This is the most ridiculous poll I have seen in awhile. This is not a point even worth arguing. Reaper raids are rarely ever run. Bring this back up when its actually starting to become an issue like not letting people in because you dont have X amount of reaper points. We ran reaper TH raids a bunch of times and had no discrimination because if we did we would have never filled.


A million times NOOOOO! You try telling my tank to tank sorjek on r3 without my 500 extra hp. Not possible.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Are you freaking kidding me? This is the most ridiculous poll I have seen in awhile. This is not a point even worth arguing. Reaper raids are rarely ever run. Bring this back up when its actually starting to become an issue like not letting people in because you dont have X amount of reaper points. We ran reaper TH raids a bunch of times and had no discrimination because if we did we would have never filled.


A million times NOOOOO! You try telling my tank to tank sorjek on r3 without my 500 extra hp. Not possible.

+1

We have much larger fish to fry.

A new UI
Stopping TR gear loss
Server merges

not to mention Ravenloft
and how your idea is extremely silly

[JOTMON]

I don't think they should be removed, they are here and it is something to grind that is unique to the specific difficulty/challenge system that is Reaper.

I would like to see only Reaper XP granted for running Reaper content and no other XP granted when running Reaper.
Seems silly that regular XP is granted for running Reaper when Reaper is supposed to be a challenge increase not a optimal farm point to get regular and Reaper XP.

Also, Loot drops in Reaper.. change these to statuettes, busts, figurines to upgrade gear obtained in non-reaper content to enhance them with Reaper bonuses.
Gear farming should stay in the non Reaper ranges..
If you are running Reaper you should already have all the optimal gear, not be pulling down a Reaper group trying to get geared.
Reaper should be about scaled up challenge and rewards related only to running reaper..+


That said..

Some changes to improve Melee and defense are needed not just in reaper but game wide.
Melee DPS and Defenses need help.

Melee needs to be able to wade into the fray of battle and trade punches with mobs..
not one/two shot death risk with every trash mob they encounter.. that should be a risk for casters, not melee.
I believe that is part of the problem with playing a melee or cleric for that matter.. cant efficiently or even effectively melee or heal the toe-toe melees in this kind of combat.

a re-examination of PRR for non-reaper. where melee and armor and shields provide a better scaling of defence..
400 PRR should give more like 95% damage mitigation and 50% should kick in around 200 PRR not 100.

DR need work.. back in the day when mobs were hitting for 5-20 damage the 10PRR was meaningful.. now they are hitting for 100x that DR has become mostly worthless beyond beginner levels.
A Stacking scaling DR for barbarians, monks and armors should be looked at.

Reaper Melee power/PRR should be changed to a % increase not a 1 point per point invested.. these ranges the +1 is [expletive] relative to the investment the focussed classes use.
a 1% per point spend benefits the heavily invested in a more meaningful way and does little for the poorly invested.

[PsychoBlonde]

I'm indifferent--Reaper raids are kind of a joke since they don't have the nasty HAHA SURPRISE champions and those are generally the worst part of it. On Legendary Elite+ the mobs already do so much damage that they can one shot basically anyone, so it's kind of at the point where further increases to "difficulty" don't really matter, and due to the level lockout non-endgame raids don't make much of a difference, either.

[Avocado]

I'm indifferent--Reaper raids are kind of a joke since they don't have the nasty HAHA SURPRISE champions and those are generally the worst part of it. On Legendary Elite+ the mobs already do so much damage that they can one shot basically anyone, so it's kind of at the point where further increases to "difficulty" don't really matter, and due to the level lockout non-endgame raids don't make much of a difference, either.

raids dont have champions yes, but many mobs in legendary raids hit hard normally and scale more dramatically with reaper.

The melee and tank trees dont add much for someone who isnt a tank, but the caster tree adds a total of +6 dcs, which is significant.

[slarden]

Are you freaking kidding me? This is the most ridiculous poll I have seen in awhile. This is not a point even worth arguing. Reaper raids are rarely ever run. Bring this back up when its actually starting to become an issue like not letting people in because you dont have X amount of reaper points. We ran reaper TH raids a bunch of times and had no discrimination because if we did we would have never filled.

Relax this is a poll not an election. I have my opinion but am interested in what the community thinks. In general people talk a lot about power creep but in the end few want to give up any power. That is human nature. Was just curious what the result would be and whether people would want raids to be power-creep free. My estimate is nos exceed yes 2 to 1 by the end of the poll, but I am curious.

A million times NOOOOO!.

One vote per person please

You try telling my tank to tank sorjek on r3 without my 500 extra hp. Not possible.

I wouldn't know running backwards is my specialty.

[Hutoth]

I see where you're coming from Slarden...

but...

this make sense if they'd implemented the whole thing differently.

If there'd been no extra xp from running on reaper (e.g. better than elite for leveling)
If there'd been much less power and much more bragging rights / cosmetics/ convenience in the reaper trees
If raid loot was much more worthwhile vs non-raid loot.
If raids were run more
etc.

Then: Yes.

Else: I run low reapers now, adjusting up with group-size, down for solo and epics. I use the trees. I take the extra xp. But I wish I hadn'tstarted, but now I can't stop. It's like an addiction AND an arms race all wrapped into one.

Therefore: Other

[Renvar]

First, the community is not united on the the reaper enhancement trees. I, personally, like the idea of the trees, but do feel like they give too much value, particularly in HP. And they don't gate properly at lower levels.

Second, if they are reaper trees, they should apply in all reaper content, and not at all in non-reaper content.

[BigErkyKid]

The ship has sailed. DDO has gone all out for the grind and burnt DnD.

Trade offs between defense and offense? Nope, please have both reaper trees.

With Ravenloft we will see again and era of have and have nots.

Someone with 70 reaper AP (already out there) is vastly more survivable and overall powerful than someone with 20.

No, it cannot be compensated with skill. When one shots are prevalent, i.e. challenge(TM), reaper AP is mandatory for effective reaper characters.

At this point whatever is left of the population is made from those who either don't care or are full on hardcore grinder mode.

I see what you are trying to do, allow for a more diverse raid scene via equalizing the power levels of grinders vs the rest. But of course people were grinding for a reason, and now you tell me that the very reason why the were grinding (i.e. a more powerful toon for hard content) is going to be taken away?

As some of the more devoted hamster wheel adepts will tell you, don't be a millennial and work for your stuff.

/rant off.

[Saekee]

One vote per person please

loved this response lol

I will not vote slarden since I rarely raid and reaper only occasionally.

[scipiojedi]

I voted yes, because I don't want reaper trees anywhere, but since I can't have that I'll settle for this. Sure, my guys are getting their butts kicked in reaper without the trees but that's where the fun is, right?

[jimcricket]

The whole of reaper mode

[slarden]

I see what you are trying to do

Didn't have any real objective or delusions that this poll would change anything.

I was more curious whether some of the people that complain about power creep the most but earn alot of rxp in game would be willing to have a space without that power.

The results are about as I expected - split primarily based on how much rxp has been earned by the voter more than anything else. It's human nature, people don't want to give up what they earned. People that didn't earn are ok with people losing what they earned so everything is more equal. Of course some people voted purely on principal, but it seems mostly split based on rxp earned so far.

Personally i would like raids to be reaper enhancement free since there aren't reapers or champions which to me are the defining characteristics of reaper. I also think people not participating are going to eventually have a hard time finding raid groups at the right level which is unfortunate, but doesn't impact me personally. However, I think that's a minority opinion and accept the rxp is a thing that is here to stay and am ok with it.

[Keladon]

I see what you are trying to do, allow for a more diverse raid scene via equalizing the power levels of grinders vs the rest. But of course people were grinding for a reason, and now you tell me that the very reason why the were grinding (i.e. a more powerful toon for hard content) is going to be taken away?

Pretty much this.
And that's coming from someone with 0 reaper points.

The results are about as I expected - split primarily based on how much rxp has been earned by the voter more than anything else. It's human nature, people don't want to give up what they earned. People that didn't earn are ok with people losing what they earned so everything is more equal. Of course some people voted purely on principal, but it seems mostly split based on rxp earned so far.

Edit: Saw this right after I submitted my post.. heh.

[SerPounce]

Nah, too many exceptions and oddities in the game already. I wouldn't mind some parts of reaper trees nerfed generally (remove HP bonuses from dps/caster trees and half them from tank tree; remove +DC and +tactics or increase cost and remove some), but more inconsistent wonky mechanics isn't the answer.

[TDarkchylde]

Typically, the guild group I've been running with have been running three to four raids during Reaper lives: VoN5-6, Demon Queen, Vision of Destruction, and occasionally Tempest's Spine (heroic). The Reaper trees don't unbalance things in those raids any more than they do in any other quest.

Singling out raids to disable them in is a bad decision. Either they need to go entirely (probably not happening now, in that I agree with the OP), or they need to work in all Reaper quests and raids alike.

[scipiojedi]

I mean even if they took the trees away, it's not like people are losing their RXP - they still have an accumulated "bank" that can go towards eyes, wings, other future cosmetics...

[Chai]

The advocacy to take people's toys away around every corner possible just needs to stop. Not only is farming for stuff only to have it taken away not a goal among those who favor progression systems, but this practice is also not congruent with, and does not synergize with, how the revenue generation system works.

[Chai]

The results are about as I expected - split primarily based on how much rxp has been earned by the voter more than anything else. It's human nature, people don't want to give up what they earned. People that didn't earn are ok with people losing what they earned so everything is more equal. Of course some people voted purely on principal, but it seems mostly split based on rxp earned so far.

Agreed. People that didnt earn it are perfectly willing to take it away from everyone else who did...

...then turn around and claim they dont care at all about how others play the game...

/sigh