Early Look - Cleric Domains

[SisAmethyst]

Animal Domain
Level 2: You gain +1 Spot, +1 Listen, and +1 Reflex saving throws for every 2 Cleric levels.
Level 14: You gain the Feral Charge ability. Your character to briefly morphs into a bear and charges forward through foes, attacking all foes in the charge area. The attack does weapon damage based on your equipped weapon with a +3(W) bonus, and enemies must make a Reflex saving throw with a DC of 19 + Wisdom modifier + Trip Bonuses or be knocked down. Cooldown is 15 seconds.

I hope this doesn't use a super long animation with a transformation as rather just having the outline of a ghostly bear around the character while it charge forward!

War Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Damage with melee and ranged weapons. This increases at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain proficiency in all martial and exotic weapons.

Level 9: Your tactical DCs are increased by half your Cleric level.

Level 14: You gain Holy Sword as an SLA.

How does this fair compared to a pure Paladin, especially including splashes (e.g. rogue for evasion)? Sure the Paladin may have more hit points, but the RS aura of a Cleric may make up for that! Additionally I am worried about the proficiency with all exotic weapons on level 5 and rather would push the exotic weapon proficiency at least to level 9.

Except of that, I really looking forward into the domains!

[SisAmethyst]

Cool, but personally I liked the earlier damage idea for Turn Undead (even more than the extra Domain abilities). That's unfortunate it won't be included now (presumably due to some vocal complaints against it, although there were many who said they liked it too).

For the animal domain, Turn Undead affecting animals doesn't seem logical. They're not undead (or even supernatural) and if you have an affinity for animals, being able to magically kill them doesn't seem right either. The same goes for elementals but at least some argument could be made that they're "not quite of this world" or something.

Well I like the damage part also and it would fit somehow better in damaging animals rather in outright destroying them, better yet, just stunning them...

[Eryhn]

I won't quote the post because it is very long, but I will say that I totally agree with the points Grace_ana is making in this thread.

Let's try to avoid "warlock'ing" clerics by rolling out an update and then revisiting those changes with the nerf bat once the player base show the devs how OP these various SLAs and domains are the way they are presented here.

meh. i like the thought of averting the later nerf bat but the one suggested by anna certainly lacks "grace"

the hell? feeling "trolled"? clerics been trolled for years compared to meta. so cut em some slack lol. move some stuff back up to 16/18 dont sound so bad. making few things a bit weaker, check. considering multiclass options that might turn too OP a bit more, good call. consider that some of those multiple temp buffs eat server ressources, yes please.

x-ing 3/4s of the the suggested SLAs cause OP, mhhh, thx but no thx, i call carp **** riplling my pond

[DarthBeckett]

No, you are spot on.

The devs stated a desire to not have a Cleric, which is a full casting progression class, be a superior melee combatant than a Paladin. Or a Fighter, I suppose. And that makes perfect sense. Making a watered down War Domain seems to be one of their ways of ensuring that this isn't the case.

The prior War Domain L9 ability of increasing weapon base damage would have made for some interesting multi-class options. The weapon proficiencies will eliminate the need to spend a feat or take a single level of Fighter or Paladin for the same benefit. But overall a melee Cleric is still going to need to multi-class to grant access to more useful enhancement trees, so that isn't a very useful ability. If combined right with a Cleric Enhancement tree pass it could be useful, but we have zero idea if that is going to happen or happen right.

Im not entirely sure if you are agreeing with me here (despite spot on), but my main concern is, without any other possible Cleric Pass Changes, the War Domain kind of sucks. In my opinion, which could be wrong. It seems that the Domain actively works against the Warpriest Enhancements, and really the only two possible chatacter types I would see wanting to even consider it are other classes that only dip Cleric. A Cleric/Fighter or something like a Cleric/Ranger/Rogue. A straight or primary Cleric build essentially gets worse from the current form by taking this Domain, or best case, nothing of any real value.

Maybe its me thinking in PnP terms, but an ability that either takes a Standard or Full Round Action for a "battle Cleric" has to either be better than a buffer "full attack" or your highest two spell levels, (roughly). None of the War Domain Abilities do close to that. Exceptions can be made for long lasting self or party buffs, or someone is about to die, (which doesn't really translate to DDO), but they are pretty circumstantial.

For a Warpriest type, I just see no reason to taking the War Domain. It looks like what we call a trap option, something that sounds cool, but functionally is terrible.

[SisAmethyst]

When you say "Turn Undead" is Negative the only one that actually turns undead or are these abilities in addition to turning undead? The answer is yes. So these are "bonuses" not a trade off.

Otherwise this pretty much makes clerics one build per domain unless they multiclass and more OP in mixes. It adds to the solo and higher level abilities of clerics so they are not healbots but let's just hope they don't forget how to heal when needed.

My critiques:
Death Domain should have better undead related SLA's such as control, Halt or create undead. The are priest by the way. What would an Evil High Priest do but use undead to serve him. The other option would be power drain instead of destruction and symbol of death at the next tier if you didn't want to mess with undead.

Chaos Domain should have prismatic ray as the second SLA.

Knowledge Domain: Shouldn't it bestow wisdom instead of intelligence? Or both, selection or toggle? Why would Clerics expend power to increase intelligence? I could see Magic Domain increasing intelligence.

Destruction domain should have destruction as a weapon effect at level 9.

Good domain should get "Good" as a weapon effect or guard at lv 14.

Strength should get another +1 or 2 str. at 5, 9 and 14.

War domain? Holy sword? This could be good but seems a little weak for a lv 14 War Priest. Unless they splash with something or boost their melee, at lv 14 they should get something better such Holy sword with SLA Tensor's.

Maybe I misread the post of

~ The basic mechanics for Turn Undead isn't changing.
~ Our strategy to boost its usefulness for Clerics is by adding an additional effect when you use the ability.
~ If you can affect animals or elementals, you can also destroy them as if they were undead.

Sev~

But I not read it as a trade of but addition to turning undead. But I agree that the death domain should probably somehow be on par with a necromancer, but not necessarily damage wise, so I get your point. I just guess they not chosen something like hold undead as the amount of enemies effected is too limited.

Prismatic ray SLA for Chaos Domain would compete with other casters but is probably indeed more interesting the Chaos Hammer (which at least I personally not used as much)

Destruction: Indeed add regular Destruction and spread the + to hit and damage over level 5/9 option, and add chaotic damage. I mean reduced item wear you can probably also get with AP if you really want to.

Good: I agree that holy/good damage sounds like a nice addition.

In general I miss a bit of e.g.:
* Air domain got resistance/immunity to electricity
* Additional new spells, e.g. wind wall, dictum
* Chaos: able to make the weapon chaotic aligned

[SisAmethyst]

I see a lot of people (probably without PnP background) worried about these abilities are too un-clerical for their taste.

For your reference, here's an overview of cleric domains in PnP.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spellLists/clericDomains.htm

Yes, elemental domains allow clerics to turn or destroy selected elementals.
Yes, Air domain grants access to Chain Lightning.
Yes, Earthquake is a normal cleric spell in PnP, additionally some domains grant it in domain slot.

That's the whole idea of domains. Gain abilities out of scope of archetypal clerics.

I am fine with elementals being 'banished' by the Cleric, but turning animals? Stun them, charm them, if you must damage them whatever but killing them like undeads being turned?

[SisAmethyst]

Well I kinda like 'em. I like the number of choices on offer for sure.

Kinda feels like it needs a L18 or 20 benefit though, frankly just because its DnD. Possibly therefore have to ramp down some of the other benefits earlier on.

Indeed a capstone option would be interesting

[Crysae]

Im not entirely sure if you are agreeing with me here (despite spot on), but my main concern is, without any other possible Cleric Pass Changes, the War Domain kind of sucks. In my opinion, which could be wrong. It seems that the Domain actively works against the Warpriest Enhancements, and really the only two possible chatacter types I would see wanting to even consider it are other classes that only dip Cleric. A Cleric/Fighter or something like a Cleric/Ranger/Rogue. A straight or primary Cleric build essentially gets worse from the current form by taking this Domain, or best case, nothing of any real value.

Maybe its me thinking in PnP terms, but an ability that either takes a Standard or Full Round Action for a "battle Cleric" has to either be better than a buffer "full attack" or your highest two spell levels, (roughly). None of the War Domain Abilities do close to that. Exceptions can be made for long lasting self or party buffs, or someone is about to die, (which doesn't really translate to DDO), but they are pretty circumstantial.

For a Warpriest type, I just see no reason to taking the War Domain. It looks like what we call a trap option, something that sounds cool, but functionally is terrible.

I'm not really sure what the trap is here? Exotic weapon proficiency aside (I think this is being totally overblown, its not like people particularly need multiple weapon proficiencies anyway, this saves one feat), Holy Sword is a great spell and it allows the cleric to take lighter splashes while still retaining near full spell progression AND expanded crit range. I realize that 6 fighter is a perfectly valid dip, but Holy Sword saves you the trouble, and lets you dip say, 4 levels of pally instead for the extra saves and sacred defender. I'm not really sure what your PnP reference has to do with anything, DDO doesnt really have anything resembling full round actions, unless we're talking in terms of cast speed like the disco ball or summon monster.

[Oliphant]

Looks fun. I like Air.

[NabeGewell]

Earth Domain Level9: Stoneskin doesn't scale that well nowadays, even for L9( imo ), I'd rather see Earthgrab or some mild acid/conjuration aoe spell like Cloudkill or Acid Blast?

Magic Domain: seems like a potential shiradi spam type but not really. Part of me would like to see Arcane Blast at L9 and Arcane Supremacy at L14 just for giggles, but the remainings of the dying aderoll playerbase that still think it's fair to balance this game on standarts of 2007 would cry enough for that never to happen. Maybe just make L2 as a Divine Vitality thing( that shares maximum turn count, but uses seperate count and does not regen like regular turns via Endless Turning/rest only ), friendly only aoe Spell Crit Damage Boost +10% or Spell Penetration +2/5cleric levels to fit the caster buffer theme.

Other then that, looks fairly interesting stuff, glad to see some attention to the class.

[Torinovski]

Greetings.

As we work on a Divine pass, we want to add in our version of Domains for Clerics. Rather than having them simply be a series of spell options, we wanted players to pick a Domain that gave the Cleric interesting build options that worked with enhancement trees.

That said, we wanted to give the players a preview of how Domains work in DDO, and want options would be available for Clerics.

Domains
Starting at level 2, a Cleric will pick one Domain which will provide additional (free) class feats as they level.

Air Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Evocation spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

Your lightning spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.

Your light spells will use Lightning Spell Power if it is higher.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Reflex saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Electric Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Shocking Grasp as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Lightning Bolt as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Chain Lightning as an SLA


Animal Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Spot, +1 Listen, and +1 Reflex saving throws for every 2 Cleric levels.

Your Turn Undead works on Animals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Constitution equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain 10 hit points per Cleric level. You also add 10 hit points for each epic level you have gained.

Level 9: You gain +15% fortification bypass.

Level 14: You gain the Feral Charge ability. Your character to briefly morphs into a bear and charges forward through foes, attacking all foes in the charge area. The attack does weapon damage based on your equipped weapon with a +3(W) bonus, and enemies must make a Reflex saving throw with a DC of 19 + Wisdom modifier + Trip Bonuses or be knocked down. Cooldown is 15 seconds.


Chaos Domain

You cannot take this domain if you are Lawful.

Level 2: You gain +1 to Will saving throws for every 2 Cleric levels.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains 1d20 points of Universal Spell Power and 1d10 points (each rolled separately) of Melee Power, Ranged Power, Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating.

Level 5: You gain Chaos Hammer as an SLA

Level 9: Your spell critical chance is increased by 3%

Level 14: You gain Prismatic Spray as an SLA


Death Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Necromancy spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

You gain +2 to your effective Cleric level to Turn Undead, and +2 to the hit dice of undead effected.

Level 5: You gain Necrotic Ray as an SLA

Level 9: You are immune to Energy Drain.

Level 14: You gain Destruction as an SLA


Destruction Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Melee and Ranged Power. You gain another point of each at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level Cleric.

You can cast your Cleric spells while raging.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: Durability damage for your items is reduced by 75%.

Level 9: You weapons gain +2 to hit and damage.

Level 14: Your weapon strikes add a stack of Improved Destruction.


Earth Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Acid Spell Power (Corrosion) per Cleric Level

Your acid spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.

Your light spells will use Acid Spell Power if it is higher.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Fortitude saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Acid Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Melf's Acid Arrow as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Stoneskin as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Earthquake as an SLA. The cooldown for this version is 15 seconds.


Fire Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Fire Spell Power (Combustion) per Cleric Level

Your fire spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.

Your light spells will use Fire Spell Power if it is higher.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Fire Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

Level 5: You gain Scorching Ray as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Wall of Fire as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Firestorm as an SLA


Good Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Light Spell Power (Radiance) per Cleric Level. You gain +1 to the Heal skill for every 2 Cleric levels.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains temporary hit points equal to five times your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Deific Vengeance as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Blade Barrier as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +3 to hit, damage, and armor class against evil creatures in combat. You gain +3 to saving throws against spells cast by evil creatures.


Healing Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Positive Spell Power (Devotion) per Cleric Level

When you use Turn Undead your party gains 20 point of Healing Amplification.

Level 5: You gain Cure Moderate Wounds as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Panacea as an SLA

Level 14: Your healing spells are empowered, as if you had the Empower meta-magic. This does not increase their cost.


Knowledge Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 to all skills.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Intelligence equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Suggestion as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Feeblemind as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +4 Spell Penetration. You gain +2 to the DC of all spells.


Law Domain

You cannot take this domain if you are Chaotic.

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Enchantment spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th.

When you use your Turn Undead your party gains a Sacred bonus to saving throws equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Order's Wrath as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Greater Command as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +3 to hit, damage, and armor class against chaotic creatures in combat. You gain +3 to saving throws against spells cast by chaotic creatures.


Luck Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to your Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saving throws. This increases by +1 at 6th level, +1 at 12th level, and +1 at 18th level.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to saving throws equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Displacement as an SLA

Level 9: You add +2 to the DC of your spells.

Level 14: You no longer automatically fail your saving throws on a roll of 1.


Magic Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Evocation spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Universal Spell Power equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Chain Missiles as an SLA. (This shares a cooldown with the Archmage SLA.)

Level 9: You gain a number of bonus Spell Points equal to your character level x 10.

Level 14: You gain points of Universal Spell Power equal to your twice your Cleric level.


Protection Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to AC, PRR, and MRR. This increases by +1 at 5th level, 10th level, 15th level, and 20th level.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to PRR and MRR equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain the Shield spell as a permanent effect on you.

Level 9: You gain Radiant Forcefield as an SLA

Level 14: Your Armor Class and Physical Resistance Rating are increased by your Cleric level.


Strength Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Strength and become immune to Strength damage.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Strength equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: Your Reflex saving throws are now based on Strength instead of Dexterity.

Level 9: You become immune to knock down effects

Level 14: You always make your saving throw against Stun effects.


Sun Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 to Fire (Combustion) and Light Spell Power (Radiance) per Cleric level.

When you use Turn Undead you and your allies gain True Sight. in addition, for 20 seconds enemies in the radius of the Turn Undead have their incorporeal miss chance negated and will be inflicted with 10% vulnerability to Light damage.

Level 5: You gain Searing Light as an SLA.

Level 9: You gain Sun Beam as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Sunburst as an SLA


Trickery Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Enchantment spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Charisma equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Invisibility as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Mind Fog as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Charm Monster, Mass as an SLA


War Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Damage with melee and ranged weapons. This increases at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain proficiency in all martial and exotic weapons.

Level 9: Your tactical DCs are increased by half your Cleric level.

Level 14: You gain Holy Sword as an SLA.


Water Domain

Level 2: You gain Water Breathing. You gain +1 to Swimming and +2 Cold Spell Power (Glaciation) per Cleric level.

Your cold spells will use Positive Spell Power if it is higher.

Your healing spells will use Cold Spell Power if it is higher.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Will saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Cold Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Solid Fog as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Cone of Cold as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Greater Creeping Cold as an SLA

Sev~

I was hoping for a Travel Domain with haste, teleport, and greater teleport. Maybe we can still get it? Looks nice though. Keep up the good work, I for one enjoy the content. Thanks!

[Pyed-Pyper]

I suspect you're trying to make a point. I don't get it.

Try researching PRR there.

[DarthBeckett]

It looks like a trap option to me really for a few reasons. The design looks like its there to help with multiclassing rather than the Warpriest itself, and it seems to largely work against the Warpriest by trying to make using non-Favored Weapons appear appealing, but not actually working with Favored Weapon Enhancements. Unless there is a significant change to the tree, which we are not hearing about currently.

I can understand not wanting to overshadow the Paladin, Barbarian, or Fighter at their own game, which I am not against. But, at the same time it feels like there are other Domains out there that do War better than the War Domain, which kind of defeats the purpose.

I don't believe that the bonus to Tactical Feats will be too relavent throughout the game. I could be wrong, as I have not really tested a build out, but even if they do, I wonder if it would really be better than a Hieghtened Commetfall or Soundburst. I could be going off of old suggestions and data, but I think even dedicated Tactics builds do not keep up effectively, and Cleric would be very limited as to what options they can really do ok down that route, even with some multiclassing. I could be wrong here, I just don't see a Cleric being effective at tactics builds without dropping some significant aspects of the class, and even then simply not being overlymeffective as they overspecialize there. But, again, I could be wrong, and am admittedly not really an expert on that aspect of play.

As far as likening it to PnP, I was mostly trying to get across the overall point for "battle cleric" builds, and while specifics do not cross over to DDO, the general point I think does. In general, (not universal), people like to play the battle cleric, (warpriest, selfish cleric, not-a-healer cleric) because they enjoy tossing out a few buffs and then getting into the front lines. They don't want to play a white-mage style spell-caster, or at least not primarily, and they do not want to stand back and buff and heal others. That does not mean they want to be a better Fighter than the Fighter, but they do want to be able to stand right there next to them and dish out some damage, take a few hits, heal up, maybe toss out a little healing to the Fighter too, occasionally.

I don't know. I thing I most hear and my experience as well is that the Warpriest tree and generally speaking the over all "war priest" concept does not age well in the game, and part of me is concerned that this Cleric Pass will not really do that much to help many of he long standing issues as much as give some flashy things to kind of distract from them. Instead of seeing an "Early Look at the Cleric Pass", we have gotten "Domains" and "Turn Undead and Domains" instead. I am in favor of Domains, don't get me wrong, but that is really only a portion of the Class, and there are a great deal of things that have really needed attention for a very long time. But, thus far, utter sulence on anything but Domains, (and Turning, which thankfully was nuked), and that leaves me,. . . suspicious.

[edrein]

It looks like a trap option to me really for a few reasons. The design looks like its there to help with multiclassing rather than the Warpriest itself, and it seems to largely work against the Warpriest by trying to make using non-Favored Weapons appear appealing, but not actually working with Favored Weapon Enhancements. Unless there is a significant change to the tree, which we are not hearing about currently.

I can understand not wanting to overshadow the Paladin, Barbarian, or Fighter at their own game, which I am not against. But, at the same time it feels like there are other Domains out there that do War better than the War Domain, which kind of defeats the purpose.

I don't believe that the bonus to Tactical Feats will be too relavent throughout the game. I could be wrong, as I have not really tested a build out, but even if they do, I wonder if it would really be better than a Hieghtened Commetfall or Soundburst. I could be going off of old suggestions and data, but I think even dedicated Tactics builds do not keep up effectively, and Cleric would be very limited as to what options they can really do ok down that route, even with some multiclassing. I could be wrong here, I just don't see a Cleric being effective at tactics builds without dropping some significant aspects of the class, and even then simply not being overlymeffective as they overspecialize there. But, again, I could be wrong, and am admittedly not really an expert on that aspect of play.

As far as likening it to PnP, I was mostly trying to get across the overall point for "battle cleric" builds, and while specifics do not cross over to DDO, the general point I think does. In general, (not universal), people like to play the battle cleric, (warpriest, selfish cleric, not-a-healer cleric) because they enjoy tossing out a few buffs and then getting into the front lines. They don't want to play a white-mage style spell-caster, or at least not primarily, and they do not want to stand back and buff and heal others. That does not mean they want to be a better Fighter than the Fighter, but they do want to be able to stand right there next to them and dish out some damage, take a few hits, heal up, maybe toss out a little healing to the Fighter too, occasionally.

I don't know. I thing I most hear and my experience as well is that the Warpriest tree and generally speaking the over all "war priest" concept does not age well in the game, and part of me is concerned that this Cleric Pass will not really do that much to help many of he long standing issues as much as give some flashy things to kind of distract from them. Instead of seeing an "Early Look at the Cleric Pass", we have gotten "Domains" and "Turn Undead and Domains" instead. I am in favor of Domains, don't get me wrong, but that is really only a portion of the Class, and there are a great deal of things that have really needed attention for a very long time. But, thus far, utter sulence on anything but Domains, (and Turning, which thankfully was nuked), and that leaves me,. . . suspicious.

Many of your points are great and a wish both the devs and other player's would understand them. The game currently does not liken itself to any form of 'spellsword' type character, with artificer really being the only exception simply because the runearm is independent of your attack chain. The devs believe that your capability to cast spells outweighs the sacrifices you make for melee, and that even with those sacrifices you should still be casting spells. Without a feat tax like Wizards get; this will never be the case with any warpriest style build. There's simply not enough room to take a full suite of combat feats and metamagics. And what's the worst offender is when this was brought up in the PC threads Steelstar stated that clerics should be using Quickdraw now; as if it was just a give me that they should use it and they've got the extra feat slot to take it.

The changes to Quickdraw are great, don't get me wrong. But no feat starved build is going to drop an essential feat for what is essentially an animation-cancel fix. Quickdraw should be an autogrant in trees like Battle Engineer, Eldritch Knight, and Warpriest to match the likes of Henshin mystic and gives already feat starved builds a small break. That is if the idea must be that these trees/builds must be intentionally gimped on the DPS department to not compete with pure melee fighters on the sake of their casting abilities. Atleast then I might consider grabbing maximize instead of just quicken on my melee cleric and might drop completionist.

If the War Domain's original bonus of 1d10 one handed weapons and 2d6 two handed weapons base die was returned as the level 14 ability with Holy Sword being scrapped all together; things would benefit both multiclass and pure clerics. They would have a good but not amazing base platform to play off of and complaints about warpriest DPS across the board would lower. Although it might be better to simply move that original plan into the level 18 or 20 capstone for Warpriest's enhancement tree and let both FVS and Cleric benefit. Either way the removal of the base damage upgrade was a massive blow and turned War Domain from being great to a complete 'noob trap'.

[Vish]

There is nothing op in the domains

I have looked them over,
And there is nothing I would build for
Yes, they accentuate,
But none by themselves deserves mention
So not power creep, just flavor

The real power is in the trees
Where is warpriest?

[Grace_ana]

Sure, go ahead and do it. I will finish my racial lives on all my toons by running a cleric in good domain, tossing blade barrier SLAs like mad and sprinting through the dungeons. It will be a faster run than my warlock, arty, or mechanic.

I mean, if you give it to me, I'm gonna use it, but you probably won't like it.

[jakeelala]

That to me is sort of the problem; they are clearly designed for multiclassing. When the first version of the domains hit the PC we mentioned why add Holy Sword as it was redundant if they followed the current trend and give warpriest crit bonuses, the answer was "It is for multiclass options". Never known anyone to go 14 cleric and splash, but hey, sure let's make that argument just for the sake of Holy Sword. And for the sake of that argument, you'd most likely pick up 6 fighter for HP bonuses through the stances. Well 6 Kensai grabs the the same bonuses as Holy Sword which is redundant. Holy Sword is unneeded as the 14 domain bonus and the weapon damage bonus should be placed here. It benefits the pures/deep cleric builds.

I'm not a fan of the way devs are repeatedly handling making so much focus on multiclassing while punishing pure builds across the board. Heck, in general I feel like the changes to War Domain were a completely knee-jerker reaction nerf to the domain in general. Now it doesn't benefit any multiclass build save one that doesn't want to burn a feat on exotic weapons. Atleast previously the weapon damage buff helped both pure warpriests who were going to use deity weapons all the time (most of which have terrible weapon die; I'm looking at you Vol, daggers are 1d4 most of the time) and was going to help whatever built splashed 9 levels of cleric with bumped damage as well.

This by no means was going to make a melee cleric on par with Barbarian, Fighter, or Ranger for melee DPS. It was going to theoretically put them ahead of a pure melee artificer (which isn't too hard even with the 'buffs' to Battleengineer which still highly favored the crossbow side of things) and would have maybe put them on par or slightly below a swashbuckler on the raw damage side of things. Even then I hardly believe they'd manage more than swashbucklers, as they wouldn't have a very strong DPS profile weapon while using their deity weapons for the maximum enhancement-tree buffed deal.

But by the by, atleast Destruction and Strength domain look a bit more attractive now that War Domain is completely dead as far as building a solid DPS-non casting melee build goes.

LOL WUT

Pure classes are the best builds in virtually every class right now. Pure Casters of course, Pure Rogue with repeaters at range, and 20 ranger for melee. And all of these domains make a pure cleric MUCH stronger based on the SLAs and DCs. What in the world are you trying to argue here about pure classes?

[SirValentine]

Um.... the casting domains are actually pretty darn close to dnd casting domains.

Not even close.

[Grace_ana]

Um.... the casting domains are actually pretty darn close to dnd casting domains. You know that wizard spells are given by elemental domains in pnp right?

PnP is balanced by the DM. DDO doesn't have that flexibility. It would be completely out of whack for the game we have, and if you introduce that kind of power, you will have to either nerf it heavily down the road or raise everyone else up to that level as well. Power creep...or more like power surge.

[SirValentine]

So not power creep, just flavor

+4 to DCs, or +10 to saves, or +40 spell power, or 200 extra HP...that's not power creep, that's flavor!

Not.