Early Look - Cleric Domains

[Celender]

The other things that bugs me is that there are no caveat, in the last few years, it has just been a power race, with some nerfs to appease the masses, but you gain power for free, effortlessly. For me, when you chose domain you should lose something, a trade-off sort of deal. Right now, I look at this and I think, **** if I could only take 2 domains or can I do a cleric 14 / cleric 6 build... Sorc when they choose a tree get nerf on the opposite tree, but here, all good, we get everything for free and we can complain it is not enough... I foresee lots of ubber clerics playing and they will mostly solo...

Exactly what is missing in DDO! Playes all wanted to trap, cast spell, self heal, self buff, high dps, tank all in one toon and devs are giving that away. There is no trade between being good at something but sucking at other. Maybe if you wanna turn elemental or animal you wont be able to turn undead anymore and vice versa. If you wanna become a Cleric that is tapping into arcane power maybe you should get nerfed in casting divine spell.

I like the proposals! The changes make cleric and cleric multi classes more attractive. It doesn't rely address the high end turn undead uselessness but it does offer variety in turning at lower levels. The domains seem fairly balanced. Some are better for multi classes some for pure or mostly pure clerics. Some for battle priests some for casters. A tanky choice or two. I wish there were a way to make the turn buffs last beyond 20 seconds. I would suggest maybe 20 seconds +2 seconds per cleric level?

All Cleric needed was a tree pass and fix turn undead not a major overhaul in the class.

They did an awesome job with fighter and Ranger pass without creating a whole new class or giving away crazy bonus.

Making turn undead works as buffs won't fix the problem. Fixing Turn Undead would be so easy: tree pass! Turn undead action boost: +5/+15/+25 Hit Dice to turning check and damage, tier 4 and can only be picked with other pre-requisite ( mighty turn or/and improved turning) to increase cost and avoid uber multiclasses and exploiters. Radiant Servant core abilities starting at lvl 6 gives +1 Hit Dice bonus to turn check and damage, except capstone that would give +4, totalling +7 if you choose to go pure Cleric.
If you wanna add damage to turn undead do it on epic destines like divine crusader or exalted angel.

I hate that multiclass is becoming the status quo in this game, any change made in the class should be thought for a pure class and not for a possible sinergism with other classes.

Because they were not relevant before? That would say a lot regarding your cleric abilities.

I have played first lifer cleric in reaper group and I can tell you they are relevant. If I could solo elite (I am at best an average player) that means clerics are capable and relevant already. They are behind and need a boost but the boost as presented seems to be a little too aggressive and pushes the ez button. Yes I do not like ez button.

What I do not want is another warlock, every class should be 1. flawed and 2. have a special feature that makes them special. That is the whole idea of D&D - i agree that this is not D&D but just because clerics needed a pass badly they should not become the next super class.

You adressed one of the the major problems in DDO: Palyers are spoiled, they want everything easy. The game doesn't pose a challenge anymore and players are ok with this, eveytime they face a challenge they whine so devs can make thing easier for them.

[Firensel]

In PnP D&D, you needed to be Good in alignment to get access to the Good Domain, Lawful to get access to Lawful etc. [...]
As there is no evil alignment in DDO, it makes sense for the Devs not to waste time creating an Evil Domain that noone could select.

Just the Good ones would not be able to get access to the Evil Domain. As they told us, to get access to the Chaos Domain you can not be Lawful. To get access to the Law Domain you can not be Chaotic ... but whatever ... I was just pointing out that there are four alignment variables (excluding neutral) and they are building domains for three of them. It just seemed like an incomplete structure to me.

[Cordovan]

good point. what happens to cleric that have x number of level? do the get free respect to be able to pick up the feats of their choice? Maybe a lesser wood?

We'll figure out some way for existing clerics to get these, probably a respec of some kind.

[DarthBeckett]

Overall, right now, I'm still not really sure how I feel about this. On one hand, it sort of seems cool. On the other hand, at least in my opinion, some of the glaring issues with the Cleric Class do not really seem to be getting touched on at all, and these additions seem to be amplifying those issues, rather than fixing or circumventing them.

Is there any plans to look at anything else in regards to the Cleric besides just Domains? If not, I'm not really overly interested in the Domains as a whole for most of my Cleric characters. They are not bad, just not the areas I feel like long overdue help has been needed, and they will probably not actually offer much overall.

If there are some other changes involved, like to the Warpriest tree, can we start talking about those and especially how they might interact with the Domains a Warpriest Cleric might be interested in, as that seems kind of pertinent? It's mentioned that the Domains will be meant to work with Enhancements, but how? To what degree?

Fire Domain
Your fire spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.
Your light spells will use Fire Spell Power if it is higher.

The base Cleric already tends to have a lot of Fire Spells in their offensive arsenal (vs Acid/Cold/Electricity), and so adding Fire Spell Power I think is largely something that the base Cleric will be very interested in. So, to me, this ability seems far less useful to Clerics than the Air/Earth/Water Domain version, where they do not generally have any need for Acid/Cold/Electricity Spell Power. I would really consider changing this one to make it more comparable.

Animal Domain
Level 2: You gain +1 Spot, +1 Listen, and +1 Reflex saving throws for every 2 Cleric levels.
Your Turn Undead works on Animals
When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Constitution equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds
Level 5: You gain 10 hit points per Cleric level. You also add 10 hit points for each epic level you have gained.
Level 9: You gain +15% fortification bypass.
Level 14: You gain the Feral Charge ability. Your character to briefly morphs into a bear and charges forward through foes, attacking all foes in the charge area. The attack does weapon damage based on your equipped weapon with a +3(W) bonus, and enemies must make a Reflex saving throw with a DC of 19 + Wisdom modifier + Trip Bonuses or be knocked down. Cooldown is 15 seconds.

A lot of things to consider here. While I don't mind the bonus to Spot and Listen, I'm not really sure that is really all that "Animal Like". Certain animals like the Dog/Hound, sure, but overall, not really.

I'd really consider making the Turn Animal ability function more like a Charm effect here. It seems like early levels will have a lot of Animals, and this will be very strong there, and not too much at mid and higher levels, (depending on if it will affect things like Fiendish Animals, Hell Hounds, and various animal-like creatures that are actually Magical Beasts, Aberations, Outsiders, etc. . .)

Adding temporary Con can be a really bad thing. In the PnP game, it's sort of the Barbarian issue with Rage, where the boost in HP can sort of easily get you killed as soon as you drop out of Rage at the wrong time and your HP suddenly drops. Depending on how this works, it could be the same deal here, where all of the sudden the group gets hit with a Dispel Magic or something and drops dead as their Con boosted HP falls out under them. Maybe considered a stackable Temp HP, and boost to Fort and Concentration instead?

15% Fortification bypass seems like it should really come in a bit earlier. This might just be the initial "on paper" look that feels off, but to me it seems like something that is too low to be overpowered around 5th level, but not enough for a level 10ish range.

I would also really consider adding the Fox's Cunning and Cat's Grace Spells (and mass versions) to the Animal Domain Cleric.

Death Domain
Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Necromancy spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.
You gain +2 to your effective Cleric level to Turn Undead, and +2 to the hit dice of undead effected.
Level 5: You gain Necrotic Ray as an SLA
Level 9: You are immune to Energy Drain.
Level 14: You gain Destruction as an SLA

Has any thought been put in to helping boost the Cleric's ability to heal/buff the Necromancer in Undead forms? I'm wondering if a few options that emulate some of the Radiant Servant Enhancements for Cure Spells could also be tied in for Inflict Spells here specifically for Undead party members. So, instead of, (or in addition to) the +1 Necromancy DCs, what about treating Inflict spells as one level higher for maximum CL, or to be affected by things like Empowered Healing? Just an idea.

I'm still not sold on the Death Domain having anything to do with Turn Undead boost. It seems the absolute wrong place for that.

Is Necrotic Ray going to work of SP or HP? Any chance of adding something like a Death Aura sort of SLA instead?


Immune to Energy Drain seems amazing, the sort of real stand out ability for the entire Domain in my opinion. I like.

Additionally, what about considered some form of limited Healing from Negative Energy as a twist? So a Mass Inflict Light Wounds or Harm spell cast on the Death Cleric winds up healing them and not hurting.

Good Domain
Level 2: You gain +2 Light Spell Power (Radiance) per Cleric Level. You gain +1 to the Heal skill for every 2 Cleric levels.
When you use Turn Undead your party gains temporary hit points equal to five times your Cleric level for 20 seconds
Level 5: You gain Deific Vengeance as an SLA
Level 9: You gain Blade Barrier as an SLA
Level 14: You gain +3 to hit, damage, and armor class against evil creatures in combat. You gain +3 to saving throws against spells cast by evil creatures.

Overall, maybe it's just the way I typically already play the Cleric Class, this seems to be the least of an overall upgrade or different.

Drop Deific Vengeance for maybe Holy Smite?

Probably not going to have a lot of folks agree here, but drop Blade Barrier (other Domains could use this much better (War and Strength), for something more definitively "Good". Perhaps Banishment (vs Evil Only)? Summon Monster 6 (Eladrin Bralani Only)?

Healing Domain
Level 2: You gain +2 Positive Spell Power (Devotion) per Cleric Level
When you use Turn Undead your party gains 20 point of Healing Amplification.
Level 5: You gain Cure Moderate Wounds as an SLA
Level 9: You gain Panacea as an SLA
Level 14: Your healing spells are empowered, as if you had the Empower meta-magic. This does not increase their cost.

Free Empowered Healing is kind of questionable. Does it stack with actual Empowered Healing? If not, it's kind of a waste as it's far too late. If so, it might be way too strong.

I'd also really consider the possibility of this Domain being able to bypass the resistance/immunity for Necromancer and Warforged party members for Healing, as the Domain is about Healing, not CURE spells, I think.

Sun Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 to Fire (Combustion) and Light Spell Power (Radiance) per Cleric level.
When you use Turn Undead you and your allies gain True Sight. in addition, for 20 seconds enemies in the radius of the Turn Undead have their incorporeal miss chance negated and will be inflicted with 10% vulnerability to Light damage.
Level 5: You gain Searing Light as an SLA.
Level 9: You gain Sun Beam as an SLA
Level 14: You gain Sunburst as an SLA

So the Divine Disciple?

Trickery Domain
Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Enchantment spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th.
When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Charisma equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds
Level 5: You gain Invisibility as an SLA
Level 9: You gain Mind Fog as an SLA
Level 14: You gain Charm Monster, Mass as an SLA

Does the Cleric really have any notable Enchantment Spells worth boosting DCs for? I honestly don't know as I really have not looked through their list for Enchantment Spells specifically. I'm wondering if it might be better to instead swap the Cha Boost and Enchantment Spells boost around, granting the Cleric a permanent Cha Boost, (which will then help them with Turning) and also feel like a more charming/tricky Character, and have them be able to buff Bards and Enchanters with the Turn Undead party boost.

<EDIT: Ok, I see Symbol of Persuasion, Hold Person (and mass) and Command (and Greater). Still doesn't seem all that great overall, even with Charm Monster Mass added. Might just be that I don't typically use those spells very much beyond Command, but this Domain could maybe use a little more oomph? Perhaps a boost to Move Silently and Hide, and Tumble, or a way to either ignore some Armor Check Penalty for those Skills?>

War Domain
Level 2: You gain +1 Damage with melee and ranged weapons. This increases at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th.
When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds
Level 5: You gain proficiency in all martial and exotic weapons.
Level 9: Your tactical DCs are increased by half your Cleric level.
Level 14: You gain Holy Sword as an SLA.

Overall, I think this one is the one most off the mark. It does very little for most Warpriest types. A +1-+5 to Weapons is not really noteworthy and really just doesn't matter.

I sort of doubt many War Domain Clerics will be using Turn Undead, so adding a Party Buff effect I think might largely be wasted. Could be wrong, but I'd honestly really consider giving the Cleric themselves a self-only semi long lasting buff or possibly even an small area debuff against enemies.

Level 5 is basically useless, unless you are really only dipping into Cleric for another Class. Unless it allows you to use all weapons as Favored Weapons, there is next to no point of this ability.

Likewise, I do not see most Warpriests carrying much or at all about a bonus to Tactical Feats. Maybe instead give them free Improved Trip/Sunder Feats, or some sort of Ranged Feat instead? Again, could be wrong, it just seems like an ability that's basically not worth anything.

Air Domain When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Reflex saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Electric Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Earth Domain When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Fortitude saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Acid Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Fire Domain When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Fire Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Water Domain When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Will saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Cold Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Two really big things here. Firstly, Resistance for 20 Seconds kind of seems like a waste. It's just far too short to really being overly meaningful a lot of the time. Secondly, unless the point here is to make it stack with all other Energy Resistances, it just seems kind of pointless to me, not worth not just casting Resist/Protection From Energy instead. I'd either suggest just making this a straight up 1 or 2 minutes long duration, or maybe more like a Protection from Evil affect that reduces a small amount of Energy Damage only.

Air Domain
Earth Domain
Fire Domain
Water Domain

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

I really hope that this only applies to a single type of Elemental, and not all Elementals.

[Dark_Lord_Mary]

So. Let me get this straight. You are the person who robbed us of the suggested Turn Undead overhaul in the previous preview thread with your complaints. And now you are raging again. Well, what can I say. Wish you quit half year ago, we'd have a shiny new turn undead nuke. Meh.

As you might have noticed, DDO is not your rigid core-only PnP session. Deal with it.

Pvp mentality, great; how about you deal with the reality that DDO is Dungeons and Dragons and not a WoW clone; nor is it ESO, or SWToR where making up whatever suits the game is fine.

This is Dungeons and Dragons and we are based on official canon and rulesets - mostly 3.5; sometimes they twist in things from other Dungeons and Dragons rulesets;

Standing Stone as a steward of the Dungeons and Dragons franchise and has done a great job adapting this game; they don't always hit a home run but they try, they listen, and I believe they love Dungeons and Dragons which is why this game is still around.

Turning rebuke into some DPS bomb did not work in D&D 4.0. It failed and was abandoned in 5.0 where it returned to a destroy effect - the good or evil creature was dispelled (utterly removed from the game back to its original plane of existence). That means 4 out of 5 versions of D&D, including the one Gary Gygax invented and used himself, use the turn/destroy method for rebuke. In 3.5 rules which is the foundation of DDO, turning/rebuking results in halt, driving off (rout), or destroying, awe (rebuke), control (command), or bolster.

Turning/destroying/dispelling is very very core game going back to the 1970s- the AD&D Dungeon Masters Guide authored by Gygax clearly lays out the amount of HD for Clerics affecting undead turned away or destroyed outright.

And yes I am one of the rigid core-only advocates and I applaud Standing Stone for sticking to canon.

[karatemack]

It truly does not matter which domain you select, take ANY domain with ANY cleric build and it gets far more powerful as of this update. Is this a bad thing? Probably not given how ignorant people are of the cleric class and its various functions. At least now people too lazy to figure the class out will be better equipped to keep up and contribute.

These changes also do open up a plethora of multi-class builds which is also interesting, even if the vertical power creep is still all too real. I appreciate the changes to the Death Domain to put it in line with the current Turn Undead system. To all those wishing the previous Turn Undead changes had been implemented, you're welcome. Skip Mighty Turning and enjoy your new party-buffing CC cower mechanic.

[Yassin]

Greetings.

As we work on a Divine pass, we want to add in our version of Domains for Clerics. Rather than having them simply be a series of spell options, we wanted players to pick a Domain that gave the Cleric interesting build options that worked with enhancement trees.

That said, we wanted to give the players a preview of how Domains work in DDO, and want options would be available for Clerics.

Domains
Starting at level 2, a Cleric will pick one Domain which will provide additional (free) class feats as they level.

Air Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Evocation spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

Your lightning spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.

Your light spells will use Lightning Spell Power if it is higher.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Reflex saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Electric Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Shocking Grasp as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Lightning Bolt as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Chain Lightning as an SLA


Animal Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Spot, +1 Listen, and +1 Reflex saving throws for every 2 Cleric levels.

Your Turn Undead works on Animals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Constitution equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain 10 hit points per Cleric level. You also add 10 hit points for each epic level you have gained.

Level 9: You gain +15% fortification bypass.

Level 14: You gain the Feral Charge ability. Your character to briefly morphs into a bear and charges forward through foes, attacking all foes in the charge area. The attack does weapon damage based on your equipped weapon with a +3(W) bonus, and enemies must make a Reflex saving throw with a DC of 19 + Wisdom modifier + Trip Bonuses or be knocked down. Cooldown is 15 seconds.


Chaos Domain

You cannot take this domain if you are Lawful.

Level 2: You gain +1 to Will saving throws for every 2 Cleric levels.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains 1d20 points of Universal Spell Power and 1d10 points (each rolled separately) of Melee Power, Ranged Power, Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating.

Level 5: You gain Chaos Hammer as an SLA

Level 9: Your spell critical chance is increased by 3%

Level 14: You gain Prismatic Spray as an SLA


Death Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Necromancy spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

You gain +2 to your effective Cleric level to Turn Undead, and +2 to the hit dice of undead effected.

Level 5: You gain Necrotic Ray as an SLA

Level 9: You are immune to Energy Drain.

Level 14: You gain Destruction as an SLA


Destruction Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Melee and Ranged Power. You gain another point of each at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level Cleric.

You can cast your Cleric spells while raging.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: Durability damage for your items is reduced by 75%.

Level 9: You weapons gain +2 to hit and damage.

Level 14: Your weapon strikes add a stack of Improved Destruction.


Earth Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Acid Spell Power (Corrosion) per Cleric Level

Your acid spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.

Your light spells will use Acid Spell Power if it is higher.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Fortitude saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Acid Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Melf's Acid Arrow as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Stoneskin as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Earthquake as an SLA. The cooldown for this version is 15 seconds.


Fire Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Fire Spell Power (Combustion) per Cleric Level

Your fire spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.

Your light spells will use Fire Spell Power if it is higher.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Fire Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

Level 5: You gain Scorching Ray as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Wall of Fire as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Firestorm as an SLA


Good Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Light Spell Power (Radiance) per Cleric Level. You gain +1 to the Heal skill for every 2 Cleric levels.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains temporary hit points equal to five times your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Deific Vengeance as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Blade Barrier as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +3 to hit, damage, and armor class against evil creatures in combat. You gain +3 to saving throws against spells cast by evil creatures.


Healing Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Positive Spell Power (Devotion) per Cleric Level

When you use Turn Undead your party gains 20 point of Healing Amplification.

Level 5: You gain Cure Moderate Wounds as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Panacea as an SLA

Level 14: Your healing spells are empowered, as if you had the Empower meta-magic. This does not increase their cost.


Knowledge Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 to all skills.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Intelligence equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Suggestion as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Feeblemind as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +4 Spell Penetration. You gain +2 to the DC of all spells.


Law Domain

You cannot take this domain if you are Chaotic.

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Enchantment spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th.

When you use your Turn Undead your party gains a Sacred bonus to saving throws equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Order's Wrath as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Greater Command as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +3 to hit, damage, and armor class against chaotic creatures in combat. You gain +3 to saving throws against spells cast by chaotic creatures.


Luck Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to your Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saving throws. This increases by +1 at 6th level, +1 at 12th level, and +1 at 18th level.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to saving throws equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Displacement as an SLA

Level 9: You add +2 to the DC of your spells.

Level 14: You no longer automatically fail your saving throws on a roll of 1.


Magic Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Evocation spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Universal Spell Power equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Chain Missiles as an SLA. (This shares a cooldown with the Archmage SLA.)

Level 9: You gain a number of bonus Spell Points equal to your character level x 10.

Level 14: You gain points of Universal Spell Power equal to your twice your Cleric level.


Protection Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to AC, PRR, and MRR. This increases by +1 at 5th level, 10th level, 15th level, and 20th level.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to PRR and MRR equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain the Shield spell as a permanent effect on you.

Level 9: You gain Radiant Forcefield as an SLA

Level 14: Your Armor Class and Physical Resistance Rating are increased by your Cleric level.


Strength Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Strength and become immune to Strength damage.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Strength equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: Your Reflex saving throws are now based on Strength instead of Dexterity.

Level 9: You become immune to knock down effects

Level 14: You always make your saving throw against Stun effects.


Sun Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 to Fire (Combustion) and Light Spell Power (Radiance) per Cleric level.

When you use Turn Undead you and your allies gain True Sight. in addition, for 20 seconds enemies in the radius of the Turn Undead have their incorporeal miss chance negated and will be inflicted with 10% vulnerability to Light damage.

Level 5: You gain Searing Light as an SLA.

Level 9: You gain Sun Beam as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Sunburst as an SLA


Trickery Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Enchantment spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Charisma equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Invisibility as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Mind Fog as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Charm Monster, Mass as an SLA


War Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Damage with melee and ranged weapons. This increases at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain proficiency in all martial and exotic weapons.

Level 9: Your tactical DCs are increased by half your Cleric level.

Level 14: You gain Holy Sword as an SLA.


Water Domain

Level 2: You gain Water Breathing. You gain +1 to Swimming and +2 Cold Spell Power (Glaciation) per Cleric level.

Your cold spells will use Positive Spell Power if it is higher.

Your healing spells will use Cold Spell Power if it is higher.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Will saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Cold Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Solid Fog as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Cone of Cold as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Greater Creeping Cold as an SLA

Sev~

Now I like the fact you're updating these classes, but being a wizard that is based around dcs, this kinda dumps the school feats for wizards (+1 dc for each school, per feat). To not mention, the epic school feat is still plus one, I mean it doesn't seem right when you give the same bonus as the heroic feat for epic feats. I feel that one dc per feat is just too little.. espeically for a class that focuses so much on dc. Please update that next?

[J-mann]

We'll figure out some way for existing clerics to get these, probably a respec of some kind.

Are we going to get more diety feats and favored weapon choices or at the bare minimum are we going to remove the stupid iconic only on the FR deities so warpriest actually has some half decent weapons to work with? maybe we can make the war domain useful and allow us to pick our favored weapon?

[elvesunited]

Air Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Evocation spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

Your lightning spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.

Your light spells will use Lightning Spell Power if it is higher.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Reflex saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Electric Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Shocking Grasp as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Lightning Bolt as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Chain Lightning as an SLA
Sev~

I dislike DC power creep because it in effect weakens every other character when you raise monster saves to match the new DC. One of the few domains that can actually make decent use of the "Master of Air" epic feat. I'd still move shocking grasp to level 2 and add electric loop at level 5.

Animal Domain
Level 2: You gain +1 Spot, +1 Listen, and +1 Reflex saving throws for every 2 Cleric levels.

Your Turn Undead works on Animals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Constitution equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain 10 hit points per Cleric level. You also add 10 hit points for each epic level you have gained.

Level 9: You gain +15% fortification bypass.

Level 14: You gain the Feral Charge ability. Your character to briefly morphs into a bear and charges forward through foes, attacking all foes in the charge area. The attack does weapon damage based on your equipped weapon with a +3(W) bonus, and enemies must make a Reflex saving throw with a DC of 19 + Wisdom modifier + Trip Bonuses or be knocked down. Cooldown is 15 seconds.
Sev~

The funny part is that this really seems like a defensive domain. Extra hit points plus the ability to do a bear charge to escape danger should the enemies get too close. Plus reflex save to help protect against ranged spell casting. The fortification bypass isn't enough to make one consider wading into melee combat with this domain. Maybe a ranged weapon variant.

Chaos Domain

You cannot take this domain if you are Lawful.

Level 2: You gain +1 to Will saving throws for every 2 Cleric levels.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains 1d20 points of Universal Spell Power and 1d10 points (each rolled separately) of Melee Power, Ranged Power, Physical Resistance Rating and Magical Resistance Rating.

Level 5: You gain Chaos Hammer as an SLA

Level 9: Your spell critical chance is increased by 3%

Level 14: You gain Prismatic Spray as an SLA
Sev~

I just can't see this being viable. Really I'd just dump all three alignment domains into one "Domain of alignment" with the ability to ignore alignment spell restrictions so it could use the Master of Alignment feat.

Death Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Necromancy spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

You gain +2 to your effective Cleric level to Turn Undead, and +2 to the hit dice of undead effected.

Level 5: You gain Necrotic Ray as an SLA

Level 9: You are immune to Energy Drain.

Level 14: You gain Destruction as an SLA
Sev~

More DC power creep. I do like that you see the silliness of giving deathward ( a cleric spell that lasts several minutes as an SLA ). I do think it would have been nice to sync it with the "Master of Dead" feat.

Destruction Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Melee and Ranged Power. You gain another point of each at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level Cleric.

You can cast your Cleric spells while raging.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: Durability damage for your items is reduced by 75%.

Level 9: You weapons gain +2 to hit and damage.

Level 14: Your weapon strikes add a stack of Improved Destruction.
Sev~

How did you ever resist giving rage spell as an SLA for this domain? You could swap it for the level 5 ability which seem kind of anti-destruction theme.

Earth Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Acid Spell Power (Corrosion) per Cleric Level

Your acid spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.

Your light spells will use Acid Spell Power if it is higher.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Fortitude saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Acid Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Melf's Acid Arrow as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Stoneskin as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Earthquake as an SLA. The cooldown for this version is 15 seconds.
Sev~

+2 Acid spell power and all you get is melf's arrow to cast. Needs acid blast at level 9. Acid Spray at level 2. Which would put it on path for "Master of Earth" feat.

Fire Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Fire Spell Power (Combustion) per Cleric Level

Your fire spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.

Your light spells will use Fire Spell Power if it is higher.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Fire Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

Level 5: You gain Scorching Ray as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Wall of Fire as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Firestorm as an SLA
Sev~

I'd go with Burning hands at level 2. Scorch at level 5. Fireball at level 14. So it could later take advantage of the master of fire feat.

Good Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Light Spell Power (Radiance) per Cleric Level. You gain +1 to the Heal skill for every 2 Cleric levels.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains temporary hit points equal to five times your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Deific Vengeance as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Blade Barrier as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +3 to hit, damage, and armor class against evil creatures in combat. You gain +3 to saving throws against spells cast by evil creatures.
Sev~

I'd still mix this with Law and chaos to make a "domain of alignment". That said this is an odd combination of light spell power, a force based SLA, and increased weapon damage.

Healing Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Positive Spell Power (Devotion) per Cleric Level

When you use Turn Undead your party gains 20 point of Healing Amplification.

Level 5: You gain Cure Moderate Wounds as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Panacea as an SLA

Level 14: Your healing spells are empowered, as if you had the Empower meta-magic. This does not increase their cost.
Sev~

Will this put a nail in the radiant servant enhancement tree? Since any cleric can cast a heal spell powerful to heal almost any character to full without it, then what is the point of it?

Knowledge Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 to all skills.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Intelligence equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Suggestion as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Feeblemind as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +4 Spell Penetration. You gain +2 to the DC of all spells.
Sev~

Blanket increase to all skills is bland. +2 skill points per level would be more interesting. It really seems like it needs more spells to make an effort in boosting enchantment DC worth it.

Law Domain
You cannot take this domain if you are Chaotic.

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Enchantment spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th.

When you use your Turn Undead your party gains a Sacred bonus to saving throws equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Order's Wrath as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Greater Command as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +3 to hit, damage, and armor class against chaotic creatures in combat. You gain +3 to saving throws against spells cast by chaotic creatures.
Sev~

As per comments good and Chaos above. Also adds to DC power creep though it only really applies to the only Enchantment spell clerics really get. ( though a cleric arcane archer could pull some use out of it )

Luck Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to your Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saving throws. This increases by +1 at 6th level, +1 at 12th level, and +1 at 18th level.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to saving throws equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Displacement as an SLA

Level 9: You add +2 to the DC of your spells.

Level 14: You no longer automatically fail your saving throws on a roll of 1.
Sev~

Well that seems to be well chopped from its initial idea. more DC power creep.

Magic Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Evocation spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Universal Spell Power equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Chain Missiles as an SLA. (This shares a cooldown with the Archmage SLA.)

Level 9: You gain a number of bonus Spell Points equal to your character level x 10.

Level 14: You gain points of Universal Spell Power equal to your twice your Cleric level.
Sev~

More DC Power Creep. Could do with a lot of force style spells from archmage.

Protection Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to AC, PRR, and MRR. This increases by +1 at 5th level, 10th level, 15th level, and 20th level.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to PRR and MRR equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain the Shield spell as a permanent effect on you.

Level 9: You gain Radiant Forcefield as an SLA

Level 14: Your Armor Class and Physical Resistance Rating are increased by your Cleric level.
Sev~

One point of PRR, AC, MRR does equate to one point of offense. This is the main reason why wolf form druid is good and bear form druid is terrible. It needs more.

Strength Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 Strength and become immune to Strength damage.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Strength equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: Your Reflex saving throws are now based on Strength instead of Dexterity.

Level 9: You become immune to knock down effects

Level 14: You always make your saving throw against Stun effects.
Sev~

If one must be a cleric whose god requires muscles wouldn't being able to use strength for increasing spell DC instead of wisdom be a thing?

Sun Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 to Fire (Combustion) and Light Spell Power (Radiance) per Cleric level.

When you use Turn Undead you and your allies gain True Sight. in addition, for 20 seconds enemies in the radius of the Turn Undead have their incorporeal miss chance negated and will be inflicted with 10% vulnerability to Light damage.

Level 5: You gain Searing Light as an SLA.

Level 9: You gain Sun Beam as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Sunburst as an SLA
Sev~

Seems a lot more light than fire. Perhaps should just be light.

Trickery Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Enchantment spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Charisma equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Invisibility as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Mind Fog as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Charm Monster, Mass as an SLA
Sev~

More DC power creep.

War Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Damage with melee and ranged weapons. This increases at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th and 20th.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain proficiency in all martial and exotic weapons.

Level 9: Your tactical DCs are increased by half your Cleric level.

Level 14: You gain Holy Sword as an SLA.
Sev~

With the tactical DC ( guess increased base damage was too easy to abuse ) that would probably make this the choice for cleric fighters multibuilds. But unless the warpriest pass is shockingly good, they'll probably avoid the holy sword SLA. After all kensei gives you increased threat range and multiplier without the spell.

Water Domain

Level 2: You gain Water Breathing. You gain +1 to Swimming and +2 Cold Spell Power (Glaciation) per Cleric level.

Your cold spells will use Positive Spell Power if it is higher.

Your healing spells will use Cold Spell Power if it is higher.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Will saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of Cold Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Solid Fog as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Cone of Cold as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Greater Creeping Cold as an SLA
Sev~

Niacs cold Ray, snowball swarm, and Niac's Biting cold to take advantage of the "Master of Water" feat.

[LeoLionxxx]

I still feel like there are too many of these to choose from. This has the potential to overwhelm new players, and I have a feeling many of these will see barely any use, due to others being "better".

You might consider consolidating the 4 elemental Domains - have it grant 4 toggles that grant the ability to be using that certain element. Not sure what to do with the SLAs/other specials though, anyone have any thoughts?

Elemental Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Evocation spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th level Cleric.

Your {element} spells will use Light Spell Power if it is higher.
Your light spells will use {element} Spell Power if it is higher.
-Where <element> = whichever stance (prayer?) you're using ATM.

Your Turn Undead works on Elementals

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a bonus to Reflex saving throws equal to half you Cleric level, and points of {element} Resistance equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: ?

Level 9: ?

Level 14: ?

Animal Domain

Level 14: You gain the Feral Charge ability. Your character to briefly morphs into a bear and charges forward through foes, attacking all foes in the charge area. The attack does weapon damage based on your equipped weapon with a +3(W) bonus, and enemies must make a Reflex saving throw with a DC of 19 + Wisdom modifier + Trip Bonuses or be knocked down. Cooldown is 15 seconds.

This looks rad; DDO could always use more bears! Do you guys have a prototype where you got the visuals working and appealing?
Also, what happens if you do this while shapeshifted into a bear/wolf/tree?

Destruction Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 Melee and Ranged Power. You gain another point of each at 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level Cleric.

You can cast your Cleric spells while raging.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to Melee Power and Ranged Power equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: Durability damage for your items is reduced by 75%.

Level 9: You weapons gain +2 to hit and damage.

Level 14: Your weapon strikes add a stack of Improved Destruction.

Would it be OP if this was "Divine" spells, rather than just Cleric ones?

IDK how powerful Improved Destruction is, but this doesn't feel to be high on the excitement front. Something to make the player feel like a savage barbarian might be more appealing; something similar to Adrenalin perhaps?

Oh, and might like to re-word the LV 5 one, perhaps something like "Your items have 75% less chance to take damage".

Healing Domain

Level 14: Your healing spells are empowered, as if you had the Empower meta-magic. This does not increase their cost.

Does this stack with Empower?
Probably want to make it absolutely clear that this copies regular Empower, and not "empower healing spell" (at least, that's what I read it as).

Knowledge Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 to all skills.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Intelligence equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Suggestion as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Feeblemind as an SLA

Level 14: You gain +4 Spell Penetration. You gain +2 to the DC of all spells.

This one doesn't seem very exciting. If you do end up cutting some, this is a great candidate.

Luck Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to your Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saving throws. This increases by +1 at 6th level, +1 at 12th level, and +1 at 18th level.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to saving throws equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Displacement as an SLA

Level 9: You add +2 to the DC of your spells.

Level 14: You no longer automatically fail your saving throws on a roll of 1.

The lv 14 effect sounds nice, though isn't very perceivable to the player.
Perhaps when it triggers, they should also get a buff:

That Was Close
* Your deity saw you were in danger, intervened, and left you with a minor blessing. For 20 seconds, gain a +1 Luck bonus to all ability scores.

The buff given can be heavily debated, of course.

Protection Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to AC, PRR, and MRR. This increases by +1 at 5th level, 10th level, 15th level, and 20th level.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains a Divine bonus to PRR and MRR equal to twice your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain the Shield spell as a permanent effect on you.

Level 9: You gain Radiant Forcefield as an SLA

Level 14: Your Armor Class and Physical Resistance Rating are increased by your Cleric level.

Is Radiant Forcefield an SLA that people like to use? When I played my Arti, I found it cumbersome and not good looking.

Sun Domain

Level 2: You gain +2 to Fire (Combustion) and Light Spell Power (Radiance) per Cleric level.

When you use Turn Undead you and your allies gain True Sight. in addition, for 20 seconds enemies in the radius of the Turn Undead have their incorporeal miss chance negated and will be inflicted with 10% vulnerability to Light damage.

Level 5: You gain Searing Light as an SLA.

Level 9: You gain Sun Beam as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Sunburst as an SLA

Oh, might we like to have a Sunburst guard toggle in here? That would make this feel cool and unique
Also a factor: Sun-elves, the Iconic Clerics, already get sunburst as an SLA: http://ddowiki.com/page/Sun_Elf_(Morninglord)

Trickery Domain

Level 2: You gain +1 to the DC of your Enchantment spells. This increases by +1 at 6th, 12th, and 18th.

When you use Turn Undead your party gains points of Charisma equal to half your Cleric level for 20 seconds

Level 5: You gain Invisibility as an SLA

Level 9: You gain Mind Fog as an SLA

Level 14: You gain Charm Monster, Mass as an SLA

Looks to be very niche, and not very party friendly. I'd say: cut it.

If not, might like to add some oomph to it by letting the charming be more powerful - like buffing charmed creatures.

----------------
Overall, I'm liking the look of these Domains. I can't wait to use one in my upcoming cleric life!

[slarden]

Looks to be very niche, and not very party friendly. I'd say: cut it.

If not, might like to add some oomph to it by letting the charming be more powerful - like buffing charmed creatures.

----------------
Overall, I'm liking the look of these Domains. I can't wait to use one in my upcoming cleric life!

Charms are great for reaper and mind fog is a nice spell to go along with it plus some of the other enchant.

[Niminae]

No, what they are creating is relevant classes.

Because they were not relevant before? That would say a lot regarding your cleric abilities.

Snark all you like. You didn't include the text of yours that I was responding to, so I'll do that for you:

I just want clerics to be more relevant, I think the idea showed here is great but I am worried we are creating new ubber toons.

Clerics with a class pass will not be 'uber.' They will be Clerics with a class pass. Don't have an irrational fear of a relevant Cleric, or a relevant FvS, or a relevant Druid. They won't steal your girlfriend.

I have played first lifer cleric in reaper group and I can tell you they are relevant.

In a group. Now apply that to solo play. I have, have you? I can tell you from personal experience that a Cleric soloing is going to do so at 50% or less of the pace of any other class which has had a class pass.

No matter how much anyone thinks that a certain class should only be useful in a group, that isn't good game design.

I'm not going to claim that you are one of these people since you haven't said as much in this thread, but there are a fairly vocal amount of people on these forums who seem to think that it's perfectly fine to let a class languish for years or to be relegated to a purely support role instead of being a class that any new player might select at character creation and not give up on the game just because they selected a class that needs a group in order to do anything other than crawl through content. That is simply insane.

They are behind and need a boost but the boost as presented seems to be a little too aggressive and pushes the ez button. Yes I do not like ez button.

You are literally years behind the meta. Just as many years as Cleric and FvS have been waiting for their class pass. The 'ez button' already exists. There is no logical or game design reason to deny that same button to another class, since it certainly will not be removed from the many classes which already posses it.

[Vrdf]

From the comments I have seen so far, it seems the two most pressing concerns are the lack of tradeoffs, since the domains only bring benefits, and the lack of capstone bonuses for pure clerics.

By the way, will there be changes to the enhancement trees as well?

In an unrelated note, clerics as I imagine might even have some fighting capabilities but should not be solo powerhouses, is my view really so out of it? In a game balance sense I really miss each class doing its job.

[Niminae]

So, to me, and I could be wrong, for a "war Cleric", the War Domain seems like a straight downgrade most of the time if not using Favored Weapon, and only a very minor, very late level boost that's likely not worth it to those that do focus on Favored Weapon, (as it currently works). Am I wrong here?

No, you are spot on.

The devs stated a desire to not have a Cleric, which is a full casting progression class, be a superior melee combatant than a Paladin. Or a Fighter, I suppose. And that makes perfect sense. Making a watered down War Domain seems to be one of their ways of ensuring that this isn't the case.

The prior War Domain L9 ability of increasing weapon base damage would have made for some interesting multi-class options. The weapon proficiencies will eliminate the need to spend a feat or take a single level of Fighter or Paladin for the same benefit. But overall a melee Cleric is still going to need to multi-class to grant access to more useful enhancement trees, so that isn't a very useful ability. If combined right with a Cleric Enhancement tree pass it could be useful, but we have zero idea if that is going to happen or happen right.

[SpardaX]

Be really careful about assumptions. All that was said is this:

Starting at level 2, a Cleric will pick one Domain which will provide additional (free) class feats as they level.

Selecting a Domain has not been called a Feat. And it might not be implemented as a Feat. It might be an irrevocable selection, just as is a Warlock Pact selection. Being done at second level rather than at character creation makes this far less likely, since a LR should allow for a different L2 Domain selection, but still the caution about assumptions is a valid one.

But they called it a feat. It's right there in the text you provided. "provide additional (free) class feats". And I was assuming it was like the Warlock Pact selection, because that is also a feat. You click a thing from the Feat box, and you drag it into the Class box. If they don't do that with Clerics, then I dont know how else we can make a selected choice. That is how they've done it, every other time. Selecting your pact is a feat choice, and every boon that comes from your pact is also a thing you need to drag from the feat box onto your character. Even though you can only get the 1 thing, it isnt auto granted, because they are all feats, and from a programming standpoint, the only reason a Fiendish Warlock cant take the Fey abilities, is because it only qualifies for Fiendish.

I am 99% sure this is how domains will be done, because if not, they would have to implement an entirely new level up box. And so far, a class has never had more than 1 "Class" feat at any given level, and I assume it's simply not a thing the system can do, because it was never needed before, and so they would not have added in the capability.

And thus, we get domains at 2 and 5, and not 1 and 6 like the Deities.

[Gregen]

If domains are mandatory there should not be trade-offs. Choosing to impair something for a benefit is one thing, but forcing it is not good. I think the domains add an appropriate amount of power that Clerics can use right now and are not at all OP. In my opinion, it looks good as presented and should stay as is.

[Matthey]

I see a lot of unbalanced and cheesy domain abilities and lacking areas which do not mention fixes. Do the pass right or don't bother.

Add more deities without iconic restrictions (deity abilities can be like domain abilities so do we need both?).
Fix the cleric trees. Some of the enhancements are ridiculously weak compared to others.
How about a little more PRR for "heavy" armor?

PnP clerics used to commonly be heavily armored mace using clerics but DDO clerics can't even choose a mace as their favored weapon unless iconic and the heavy armor doesn't make them anywhere near as defensive as a paladin or fighter in heavy armor (maybe heavy armor scaled by the enhancement bonus should give more PRR than the trees?).

Perhaps the domains could be better incorporated into more deity choices? I would like to see more deities choices for all and then determine whether domains are necessary. The proposed domains seem like putting the carriage before the horse.

[karatemack]

I'm not going to claim that you are one of these people since you haven't said as much in this thread, but there are a fairly vocal amount of people on these forums who seem to think that it's perfectly fine to let a class languish for years or to be relegated to a purely support role instead of being a class that any new player might select at character creation and not give up on the game just because they selected a class that needs a group in order to do anything other than crawl through content. That is simply insane.

Are you serious? Please tell me you really don't believe that Clerics are incapable of soloing effectively...

You are literally years behind the meta. Just as many years as Cleric and FvS have been waiting for their class pass. The 'ez button' already exists. There is no logical or game design reason to deny that same button to another class, since it certainly will not be removed from the many classes which already posses it.

Clerics are behind, yes. But not nearly so far behind as some seem to believe. Even these new toned-down Domains will provide more of a boost than was really needed. The fact that they open up additional multi-class options is interesting and nice... but you do realize that now it will be simple (IE: Little to no effort required) to build for spell spamming damage AND DC casting... right? BB as an SLA at level 9? I get you want an easy button... but just how BIG do you think your easy button needs to be???

[J-mann]

From the comments I have seen so far, it seems the two most pressing concerns are the lack of tradeoffs, since the domains only bring benefits, and the lack of capstone bonuses for pure clerics.

By the way, will there be changes to the enhancement trees as well?

In an unrelated note, clerics as I imagine might even have some fighting capabilities but should not be solo powerhouses, is my view really so out of it? In a game balance sense I really miss each class doing its job.

LOL not sure where you are getting this, a vocal one is saying stuff like this and its crazy. Clerics should be every bit as much the "solo power house" that sorcs/wizards/pallies/artis/mechanics are. There is no reason that they should not be, especially in todays game with its dwindling population.

I see a lot of unbalanced and cheesy domain abilities and lacking areas which do not mention fixes. Do the pass right or don't bother.

Add more deities without iconic restrictions (deity abilities can be like domain abilities so do we need both?).
Fix the cleric trees. Some of the enhancements are ridiculously weak compared to others.
How about a little more PRR for "heavy" armor?

PnP clerics used to commonly be heavily armored mace using clerics but DDO clerics can't even choose a mace as their favored weapon unless iconic and the heavy armor doesn't make them anywhere near as defensive as a paladin or fighter in heavy armor (maybe heavy armor scaled by the enhancement bonus should give more PRR than the trees?).

Perhaps the domains could be better incorporated into more deity choices? I would like to see more deities choices for all and then determine whether domains are necessary. The proposed domains seem like putting the carriage before the horse.

Yup. Locking the only decent weapons behind Iconics is utter fail. There is no reason why FR deities SHOULDN'T be available to normal chars post motu. I can lore up a billion reasons why a fr toon would end up in korthos so others please spare my those poor arguments in a magic world. The warpriest lacks the ability to make 1h weapons worth anything, and the only 2hrs are locked behind Iconics.... so much fail.

Are you serious? Please tell me you really don't believe that Clerics are incapable of soloing effectively...




Clerics are behind, yes. But not nearly so far behind as some seem to believe. Even these new toned-down Domains will provide more of a boost than was really needed. The fact that they open up additional multi-class options is interesting and nice... but you do realize that now it will be simple (IE: Little to no effort required) to build for spell spamming damage AND DC casting... right? BB as an SLA at level 9? I get you want an easy button... but just how BIG do you think your easy button needs to be???

lol they are MILES behind any decent build out there. Arcanes crush them, warlocks crush them, mechanics and arties crush them. They only fair even remotely similarly to melee builds due to the reaper heal nerf and damage spike making melee a bad idea. These domains are a step in the right direction, though the melee ones are very weak and could use a boost along with a tree clean up.

[edrein]

No, you are spot on.

The devs stated a desire to not have a Cleric, which is a full casting progression class, be a superior melee combatant than a Paladin. Or a Fighter, I suppose. And that makes perfect sense. Making a watered down War Domain seems to be one of their ways of ensuring that this isn't the case.

The prior War Domain L9 ability of increasing weapon base damage would have made for some interesting multi-class options. The weapon proficiencies will eliminate the need to spend a feat or take a single level of Fighter or Paladin for the same benefit. But overall a melee Cleric is still going to need to multi-class to grant access to more useful enhancement trees, so that isn't a very useful ability. If combined right with a Cleric Enhancement tree pass it could be useful, but we have zero idea if that is going to happen or happen right.

The prior ability was honestly the only saving grace of the War Domain. The fact the devs somehow managed to miss the mark on all feedback (both the normal forums and PC forums) and put that ability as the level 14 and remove Holy Sword altogether is a major problem here. None of the domains make me want to run a Warpriest any time soon. I'd rather run a FVS warpriest and atleast get the lantern archon for supplemental DPS than run War, Strength, or Destruction domain on a pure divine.

Perhaps I'm wrong and they appeal to splashing. But I've never heard anyone say, "Let's splash cleric into our melee build" in a manner of DPS perspective. At best people splash warpriest for ameliorating strike or they take aura from Radiant Savant for whatever reason. But certainly not for DPS. Clerics lack solid DPS buffing spells, they lack a good DPS enhancement tree, and they've got no class features that benefit DPS.

War Domain with the damage die increase put a cleric warpriest on par with a Swashbuckler at best, while lacking all of the CC goodies, utilities in group buffs, and synergy for multiclassing.