Some Quick Fusilade w/ Gxbow vs Repeater Comparisons

[SemanticMirage]

All tests done w/ same gear (15% range alacrity) mouse button was held down when fusilade was used and stopped on first reload. (number is how many bolts used so shots assuming bolt consumption is 1 for 1 regular conjured bolts used)

Heavy Repeater

86
84
85

Gxbow

81
84
78


So it seems that at least in fusilade, gxbow is the way to go without a doubt on an arti, not applied would also be the extra doubleshot, crit range, and damage that the gxbow gets which would increase its dps even more. However im curious as to how stuff like snipershot would play into these calculations as the repeater would get 3 shots compared to the gxbows 1 if someone whos good at math could help out there, at least on pure arti or non sniper shot/aimed shot arti builds gxbows are better in fusilade.

[Nightmanis]

All tests done w/ same gear (15% range alacrity) mouse button was held down when fusilade was used and stopped on first reload. (number is how many bolts used so shots assuming bolt consumption is 1 for 1 regular conjured bolts used)

Heavy Repeater

86
84
85

Gxbow

81
84
78


So it seems that at least in fusilade, gxbow is the way to go without a doubt on an arti, not applied would also be the extra doubleshot, crit range, and damage that the gxbow gets which would increase its dps even more. However im curious as to how stuff like snipershot would play into these calculations as the repeater would get 3 shots compared to the gxbows 1 if someone whos good at math could help out there, at least on pure arti or non sniper shot/aimed shot arti builds gxbows are better in fusilade.

13 Rogue 6 Arti build, anyone? Thanks for the info!

[Ultinoob]

For the 18 seconds endless fusilade duration you shot 85 shots with the heavy repeater and 81 with the great crossbow on average. I assume you had zero doubleshot chance for this test. If you did not your test can be inaccurate.

So math for sniper shot. Sniper shot has a cooldown of 6 seconds. In a perfect world you would be able to do 3 sniper shots in 18 seconds, but i doubt that is possible so lets assume 2.

Sniper shot grants you +4 threat range and +2 multiplier.

Assuming Base Damage (BD) is you damage where Ranged Power (RP) is already added in.

Crit range for heavy repeater is 5 and multiplier is 3. That would be 5*(3-1)=10 extra ”hits” per 20 shots. So by the time you have fired 20 (19 hits and on miss) shots you would have done 29 times your BD. For the sniper shot we have 9 threat range and 5 multiplier: 9*(5-1)=36 extra hits. So in 20 shots fired with sniper shot you would do 19+36=55 times BD.

So for a heavy repeater that fires 2*3 sniper shots in 85 shots and 79 normal shots the math says:
2*3*55/20*BD+79*29/20*BD=131.05*BD in the 18 seconds.

For a great crossbow assuming +1 threat range and +1 multiplier and improved critical: 7*(3-1)=14 extra hits for non sniper shot and 11*(5-1)=44.

2*(19+44)/20*BD+79*(19+14)/20*BD=136.65*BD in 18 seconds.

Since it would be logical to assume that the base damage of a great crossbow is greater than a heavy repeater to great crossbow comes out on top.

I already have some test data for heavy repeater found here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/341522

But i miss some for great crossbow without endless fusilade. If you could be so kind to provide some i can do the math for a comparison without endless fusilade. What i need is you to do a test with 15% ranged alacrity with as close to 20 in BAB you can get. Fire for 1 minute and measure the amount of bolts fired. Remember to have 0 doubleshot.

EDIT: Oh yea. If you have the tier 5 mechanic enhancement that gives +30 ranged alacrity please do a test with 30 RA and one with 15.

[SemanticMirage]

For the 18 seconds endless fusilade duration you shot 85 shots with the heavy repeater and 81 with the great crossbow on average. I assume you had zero doubleshot chance for this test. If you did not your test can be inaccurate.

Ah you were correct and i did have doubleshot bonuses during my tests which skewed my answers.

I retested with 2% doubleshot (shippy buff didnt want to wait out the timer but its so low it wont affect values too much)

This time all tests were conducted with haste+tensers

Heavy Repeater

78
78
80
79

Gxbow

60
60
63
60

Needle (20% alacrity and Light repeater)

80
83
79
78

So clearly my results from before were incorrect. This also leads to an interesting question as to how much doubleshot one needs for the GXBOW to pull ahead in terms of shots per sec.

The average for heavy repeater was 78.75 (well call it 79 for simplicity sake), Gxbow well say is 60, the 63 seems to be an outlier. So doubleshot on repeaters is 1/3rd that off gxbows so were looking for 79+(79*x/3)=60+60x. Solving for x gives roughly 56% doubleshot... However it is my assumption that even at lower doubleshot values the gxbow will pull ahead due to its superior crit profile and damage. The exact doubleshot needed for that is something I am not looking to solve :P. 56% DS is not an absurd value either.

(please any comments if i missed anything here would be nice)

[Ultinoob]

So for a heavy repeater that fires 2*3 sniper shots in 79 shots and 73 normal shots the math says:
2*3*55/20*BD+73*29/20*BD=122.35*BD in the 18 seconds.

For a great crossbow assuming +1 threat range and +1 multiplier and improved critical: 7*(3-1)=14 extra hits for non sniper shot and 11*(5-1)=44.

2*(19+44)/20*BD+58*(19+14)/20*BD=102*BD in 18 seconds.

This is assuming you crit on everything.

[Haphazarduk]

I have been testing this myself but got different results. I'm away from my pc right now but topline results were as follows;

Light Repeater
99 Bolts in 42 seconds
Fusillade = 78 Bolts

Great Xbow
99 bolts in 88 seconds
Fusillade = 45 Bolts
Tests were done with no doubleshot, no speed items or buffs and basic gear. BAB was 11.


I don't have the stats to hand right now but when I added in Mech Reloader the effect on Light Repeater was expected in terms of 10% increase but for GXbow I only got an increase in shot time for 99 bolts of 79 seconds which seems to suggest there's only an alacrity bonus of 10% for Gxbow, not 30%. Weirdly I think Fusillade did get the 30% increase though to 60 shots but I want to retest that and try different BABs.

Hap

[Ultinoob]

I have been testing this myself but got different results.
Light Repeater
Fusillade = 78 Bolts

Great Xbow
[...] Weirdly I think Fusillade did get the 30% increase though to 60 shots but I want to retest that and try different BABs.

Hap

The average for heavy repeater was 78.75 (well call it 79 for simplicity sake), Gxbow well say is 60, the 63 seems to be an outlier. [...]

You findings is not that different. It just seems like maybe SemanticMirage did the test with the repeater without mechanical reloader and the test with the great crossbow with?

Also Haphazarduk if it is possible to do a test of a great crossbow with around 20 in BAB and 0, 15 and 30 in ranged alacrity with no doubleshot i will update my page accordingly - with Rapid reload and rapid shot.

in this post https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/341522 he had a time of 55 seconds on 19 BAB with RR and RS. This was for a heavy repeater. This seems to be a bit off when comparing to your 42 seconds for 99 bolts with a light repeater and BAB 11 unless this result was with mechanical reloader?

[SemanticMirage]

You findings is not that different. It just seems like maybe SemanticMirage did the test with the repeater without mechanical reloader and the test with the great crossbow with?

Also Haphazarduk if it is possible to do a test of a great crossbow with around 20 in BAB and 0, 15 and 30 in ranged alacrity with no doubleshot i will update my page accordingly - with Rapid reload and rapid shot.

in this post https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/341522 he had a time of 55 seconds on 19 BAB with RR and RS. This was for a heavy repeater. This seems to be a bit off when comparing to your 42 seconds for 99 bolts with a light repeater and BAB 11 unless this result was with mechanical reloader?

Hmm very strange, no my tests were done on an arti 8 ranger 6 fighter 6 build so no reloader... i dont see how our values are so different, i had both rapid shot and rapid reload did you?