When is a Rogue not a Rogue...

[SpiritofAlba]

I am a long time but very casual player working vaguely towards completionist. I fancied trying a mechanic build, but already have a rogue life (which was TA and fun). So I have gone for ranger with a deep rogue splash, drow with harper tree, great crossbow. This is the first time I have run a ranged build on my main toon.

So far at L9 (5ranger, 4rogue) and the combo works really well. Free precise and rapid shot from ranger. Sneak attack in ranger trees as well. Undead as favoured enemy. Ranger mix gives a few more HP than pure rogue. Int based build means traps are a breeze, and spot and search both being class skills for ranger means more than enough skill points to go round.

In theory, there is also nice sync for sneaking, again with hide and move silently ranger (as well as rogue) skills, plus relevant ranger spells. However, I am a novice sneaker, and mainly PUG, so not using much in practice.

One unexpected hassle has been crossbow bolt supplies. I'd expected to fill up and equip a quiver and be sorted, but ended up with multiple quivers and still sometimes forget to stock up enough when on a pug zipping through quests. Looking forward to fletching to reduce the rate of burn through stocks.

One unexpected benefit is that ranger gives TWF line free, and with Harper Int to damage, I can fall back on melee in a pinch (like if I run out of ammo, say...). Probably once I get to Rogue 6 I will use the Int to damage for crossbows only in mechanic, and regain some AP from Harper, as the melee fallback will get less viable in higher levels anyway.

DPS is good - really strong from around level 4 when get int bonus to damage (as well as KTA). Falling off a little now, mainly I think because crossbow is nothing special. Can't wait to try out my divine artillery from the bank when hit L13. Survivability is fine, as long as I don't wade into a big mob group.

Main dilemma at this point is whether to also splash a couple of artificer levels. Rune arm imbue would tweak up the DPS, and fits well with int build. However, I think probably improved precise shot from ranger 11 and improved uncanny dodge from rogue 8 are tempting me more.

[Phoenicis]

I am a long time but very casual player working vaguely towards completionist. I fancied trying a mechanic build, but already have a rogue life (which was TA and fun). So I have gone for ranger with a deep rogue splash, drow with harper tree, great crossbow. This is the first time I have run a ranged build on my main toon.

So far at L9 (5ranger, 4rogue) and the combo works really well. Free precise and rapid shot from ranger. Sneak attack in ranger trees as well. Undead as favoured enemy. Ranger mix gives a few more HP than pure rogue. Int based build means traps are a breeze, and spot and search both being class skills for ranger means more than enough skill points to go round.

In theory, there is also nice sync for sneaking, again with hide and move silently ranger (as well as rogue) skills, plus relevant ranger spells. However, I am a novice sneaker, and mainly PUG, so not using much in practice.

One unexpected hassle has been crossbow bolt supplies. I'd expected to fill up and equip a quiver and be sorted, but ended up with multiple quivers and still sometimes forget to stock up enough when on a pug zipping through quests. Looking forward to fletching to reduce the rate of burn through stocks.

One unexpected benefit is that ranger gives TWF line free, and with Harper Int to damage, I can fall back on melee in a pinch (like if I run out of ammo, say...). Probably once I get to Rogue 6 I will use the Int to damage for crossbows only in mechanic, and regain some AP from Harper, as the melee fallback will get less viable in higher levels anyway.

Main dilemma at this point is whether to also splash a couple of artificer levels. Rune arm imbue would tweak up the DPS, and fits well with int build. However, I think probably improved precise shot from ranger 11 and improved uncanny dodge from rogue 8 are tempting me more.

Check your UMD, you may have enough for flame arrow wands from house P. virtually infinite ammo supply from wands right there.

[SpiritofAlba]

Check your UMD, you may have enough for flame arrow wands from house P. virtually infinite ammo supply from wands right there.

Oo, didn't know that one. Been putting points in UMD and have charisma and UMD items, so will certainly check out. Many thanks!

[JOTMON]

go see the Artificer vendor (Taniera Grisvill) in house C and purchase some scrolls..
a little bit of UMD goes a long way....

~Conjure bolts (level 1)
the first level artificer spell is available on scrolls from the artificer vendor to summon 1,000 bolts per casting..

~flame arrow scrolls (level 3)
allows you to summon your choice of a 500 stack of arrows, bolts, darts, axes, daggers, or shuriken..

~flame arrow wands (level 5).
wand vendor House J and House P.

Summon up a few stacks of bolts, they remain in inventory for as long as you are online and only dissipate after you log out..


There is also the House D favor vendor Tarvin d'Deneith,
http://ddowiki.com/page/Favor

Noted - 75 Favor
sells +3 missile weapon ammunition. Note, this ammunition binds on purchase.
100 Cold Iron Arrows or Bolts - 10pp
100 +3 Arrows or Bolts - 20pp
100 Silver Arrows or Bolts - 30pp
100 Byeshk Arrows or Bolts - 30pp
100 Adamantine Arrows or Bolts - 60pp
Large Wide Quiver (10 types x 250 each), base value 7,500pp

Commended - 150 Favor
you can buy "sturdy" (75% returning) missile weapon ammunition. These come in both the regular and +3 variety. Note, this ammunition binds on purchase.
100 Sturdy Arrows or Bolts - 20pp
100 +3 Sturdy Arrows or Bolts - 40pp
Large Thin Quiver (3 types x 1,000 each) - 7,500pp

..The house D favor vendor has really fallen behind with flame arrow being easily readily available and easier to stock/maintain.
a revamp/upgrade of purchases from the house D favor vendor has been long past due for stack sizes and higher tier options.

[unbongwah]

One unexpected hassle has been crossbow bolt supplies. I'd expected to fill up and equip a quiver and be sorted, but ended up with multiple quivers and still sometimes forget to stock up enough when on a pug zipping through quests. Looking forward to fletching to reduce the rate of burn through stocks.

UMD + Conjure Bolts scrolls FTW.

Main dilemma at this point is whether to also splash a couple of artificer levels. Rune arm imbue would tweak up the DPS, and fits well with int build. However, I think probably improved precise shot from ranger 11 and improved uncanny dodge from rogue 8 are tempting me more.

Well, if you were gonna splash Arty, it would've made sense to do so early on, for the free Rapid Reload, exotic xbow proficiencies, Conjure Bolts spell, and Runearm usage from about lvl 3. Rgr 12 / rog 6 / arty 2 is a solid basis for a rgr PL: e.g., 39 Mechanic (tier-5s) / 24 DWS (Killer + Adv Sneak Atk) / 14 Harper (KtA + Versatile Adept) / 3 human (Dmg Boost + heal amp). Biggest downside is no crit multiplier bonus.

Another option is rog 6 / rgr 6 / ftr 6 with last two lvls into whichever class you want a PL feat in. Ftr 6 opens up Strike w/No Thought (+1 crit multiplier); pick either Kensei or Mechanic tier-5.

[Wipey]

I don't see how any splash is worth losing basically 2/3 of your sneak attack, expert builder or improved evasion.
Doesn't make any sense to splash mechanic.

[SpiritofAlba]

THanks for the thoughts.

Well, if you were gonna splash Arty, it would've made sense to do so early on, for the free Rapid Reload, exotic xbow proficiencies, Conjure Bolts spell, and Runearm usage from about lvl 3.

Fair point, and of course defer to your build knowledge. Though if wanted rune arm that early, would be pushing back evasion.

Rgr 12 / rog 6 / arty 2 is a solid basis for a rgr PL: e.g., 39 Mechanic (tier-5s) / 24 DWS (Killer + Adv Sneak Atk) / 14 Harper (KtA + Versatile Adept) / 3 human (Dmg Boost + heal amp). Biggest downside is no crit multiplier bonus.

That's basically where I was heading, enhancement wise. Drow gives me base int 20, some SR and thought I would like nothing is hidden too, but too many AP goodies elsewhere.

I don't see how any splash is worth losing basically 2/3 of your sneak attack, expert builder or improved evasion.
Doesn't make any sense to splash mechanic.

You are right, if goal is maxing power. Not suggesting this competes with pure rogue mech, rather a way of getting a ranger PL with rogue feel, while still being decent. On a small point, you lose six SA die from rogue levels, but get back three back in ranger tree, so its more like 1/3 than 2/3.

[unbongwah]

losing basically 2/3 of your sneak attack

On a small point, you lose six SA die from rogue levels, but get back three back in ranger tree, so its more like 1/3 than 2/3.

Pure rog 20 Mechanic has 10d6 SA rog lvls + 4d6 Assassin + 3d6 Mechanic cores + 1d6 Sniper enh + 3d6 ISA epic feat = 21d6 SA. Rog 6 / rgr 12 split only has 3d6 SA rog lvls + 4d6 DWS + 1d6 Sniper enh = 8d6* SA. So losing 62% of total SA, making Wipey's estimate pretty close.

However, in both cases, add +7d6 SA if using gt xbows instead of repeaters from Sharpshooter + Sniper. At which point it becomes 28d6 vs 15d6 or a bit closer to half SA.

It's largely irrelevant if you're talking about a HTR build, though, since so much of pure Mechanic DPS is backloaded (Expert Builder etc.).

*You might be able to squeeze in an extra d6 or two from Assassin, but as you can see from my proposed AP spread above, you're somewhat constrained. You'd basically be trading Ranged Power from Harper for extra SA, so it's kind of a wash, IMO.

[Niminae]

Check your UMD, you may have enough for flame arrow wands from house P. virtually infinite ammo supply from wands right there.

This is good advice and has been my solution. Not only can you easily make more stacks during a run, but they also offer another 1d6 fire damage. Fairly handy at lower levels, and especially against trolls, winter wolves and such.

[Wipey]

You are right, if goal is maxing power. Not suggesting this competes with pure rogue mech, rather a way of getting a ranger PL with rogue feel, while still being decent. On a small point, you lose six SA die from rogue levels, but get back three back in ranger tree, so its more like 1/3 than 2/3.

Ah ranger past life. I did those as 11 ranger / 6 rogue / 3 pally repeater tanky "in your face" blitzer Shadarkai.
But such build comes together in very late heroics or even only in epics.
Common "symptom" of many multiclass builds if ease of levelling in heroics is your focus.

For heroics only ranger past life I'd just go Tempest cuz archery sucks donkey balls in heroics, but that's just me :P

[SpiritofAlba]

Pure rog 20 Mechanic has 10d6 SA rog lvls + 4d6 Assassin + 3d6 Mechanic cores + 1d6 Sniper enh + 3d6 ISA epic feat = 21d6 SA. Rog 6 / rgr 12 split only has 3d6 SA rog lvls + 4d6 DWS + 1d6 Sniper enh = 8d6* SA. So losing 62% of total SA, making Wipey's estimate pretty close.

However, in both cases, add +7d6 SA if using gt xbows instead of repeaters from Sharpshooter + Sniper. At which point it becomes 28d6 vs 15d6 or a bit closer to half SA.

It's largely irrelevant if you're talking about a HTR build, though, since so much of pure Mechanic DPS is backloaded (Expert Builder etc).

Arguably ISA out of scope of HTR, and this is probably Rogue 8, and yes using GXB, which makes 25d6 vs 16d6, or drop of 36% perhaps. However, your maths is much better than mine, so I am going to stop there and just appreciate your advice and agree with your last point :-)

This is good advice and has been my solution. Not only can you easily make more stacks during a run, but they also offer another 1d6 fire damage. Fairly handy at lower levels, and especially against trolls, winter wolves and such.

Yep, got my wand, can use it, and very happy. The other lovely thing is that the bolts stack in 500 in normal inventory ( unlike puchased bolts which only stack in 100.)

archery sucks donkey balls in heroics

That sounds a hairy experience, really glad I am using a crossbow :-)

[SpiritofAlba]

I know some folk knock off a life in an evening, but takes me months...

Anyway, L16 now, and just to report its all working lovely. Only learning has been that, while Mechanic is full of goodies, important not to underate DWS in this build. Called shot is particularly juicy:

Performs a ranged attack with +2[W], a +4 bonus to-hit, +2 to critical threat range, and +2 to Critical Damage Multiplier. All that, and a bluff effect too. And only six second cooldown, and can alternate with aimed shot.

With Divine Artillery, can crit for 800+ regularly at this level, which no doubt is peanuts to some, but feels good to me!

Also Killer and probably Merciful Strike still to come.