Item min. level changes bought in shard auction require you to give back my shards

[altazar]

I pay for three VIP accounts, have since DDO was released. I've bought a number of items on the shard auction and there was NO WARNING at all that those items might have a min. level adjusted. I demand my account to have the shards replaced for each auctioned item that was impacted by the latest update. There was no reason you couldn't provide a patch long ago that would of warned people about these items prior to you actually implementing the changes with today's update. And you might want to check this account, my main's, purchase activity in the last year before you discount my request.

Thank for an expected resolution.

[LXP]

Unfortunately, also items that obviously were not intended to have their minimum level adjusted (as it had never been lost) were hit and made useless by U36. Details here.

[altazar]

My celestial chainmail was also adjusted, that one really knocked me over the edge on this nonsense. There is no technical reason that they can't patch/hot-patch the shard auction house to deal with these bug items immediately once they are discovered. I'm a solo player, erradicate in when I can play throughout a year, and do so for enjoyment - digging through forums etc prior to playing everytime to find out what is or isn't bug to simply protect myself from a shard purchase that will later be nerfed is unacceptable and unless this is resolved - I'll be shutting down my three accounts.

[altazar]

Hey... employees... I'm waiting for a response.

[Inanout]

You deserve at least an answer. Three vip accounts for that long.

[altazar]

No answer still, no attempted contact. I've dumped more than $2200 into DDO just this year... not a dime more outside of my basic 3 VIP accounts until I'm contacted to resolve this issue. And if not contacted by Sept - those 3 VIP accounts will be done as well once their annuals are over.

[Jasparion]

I pay for three VIP accounts, have since DDO was released. I've bought a number of items on the shard auction and there was NO WARNING at all that those items might have a min. level adjusted. I demand my account to have the shards replaced for each auctioned item that was impacted by the latest update. There was no reason you couldn't provide a patch long ago that would of warned people about these items prior to you actually implementing the changes with today's update. And you might want to check this account, my main's, purchase activity in the last year before you discount my request.

Thank for an expected resolution.

Are you angry because you thought Con 10, Speed X items should be ML1?

Or are you angry because you thought you had bought some awesomely bugged gear which would be useful during the low levels only to have the bug subsequently be fixed and now you have some awesomely statted ML14 gear?

Are there any other bugs you are currently taking advantage of? Or will you only complain about them once SSG fix them?

[altazar]

Are you angry because you thought Con 10, Speed X items should be ML1?

I want them to address their "fraud". Specifically, the shard auction house should be fixed immediately where dev's can filter out, purge, remove what they've determined are "bugged" items without needing server downtime. Items that they know they'll eventually change with later updates to the servers. There is no excuse where these bugged items should sit on the shard auction house during the months/weeks before they eventually fix it with the server upgrade.

I don't see these items as "just bugs" once they are allowed on the shard auction house - at that point, they become fraud since the financial dynamics change vs. the base game. I bought something as advertised, that is a contract of sorts.

I grow tired of developers and QA teams in my industry, I've been a Unix/Linux admin since 1995, using "bugs" as an excuse for sloppy work and not being held unaccountable for their sloppy work. "Oh, it's a bug..." with a shrug of a shoulder is unacceptable when really it's "I f**ked up and was crappy at my job".

If DDO is holding to a right that they think they can change items purchased on the shard auction house or on the DDO Store whenever they feel like it, then I will simply stop funding them as a company. If they believe it's acceptable that their customers should spend hours researching if an item on the auction house might or might not be a bugged item or might be changed drastically with a later update - then I'll stop funding them as a company.

For me, my time is worth a lot of money - one of the very reasons why I do leverage the shard auction house and DDO store items a lot. I pulled up my DDO store purchase history, it only goes back to Aug 2015. It's over $6,000 between all the accounts I fund [I pay for my sons accounts as well]. I've had a minimum of three VIP accounts since the game was released, as high as five when all my boys were playing. That cost plus the other DDO store purchases I made since it's release probably has my investment well over $12,000 into this game.

Or are you angry because you thought you had bought some awesomely bugged gear which would be useful during the low levels only to have the bug subsequently be fixed and now you have some awesomely stated ML14 gear?

Half of the gear isn’t even notable at ML14 and NONE of the gear would be justified at the shard cost at ML14.

Are there any other bugs you are currently taking advantage of? Or will you only complain about them once SSG fix them?

What other bugs show up on the auction house or in the DDO store? What other ones involve a financial transaction that then flirts with fraud on their part?

What other bugs allows DDO, if I was to doubt their business integrity, an opportunity to release “bugged” items every other release as to then take advantage of the auction house to drive up revenues where they can then later nerf said items as to keep the “appearances” of avoiding breaking game balance etc? They need to fix the shard auction house as to remove any chance of this being a possibility.

[florestan]

I want them to address their "fraud". Specifically, the shard auction house should be fixed immediately where dev's can filter out, purge, remove what they've determined are "bugged" items without needing server downtime. Items that they know they'll eventually change with later updates to the servers. There is no excuse where these bugged items should sit on the shard auction house during the months/weeks before they eventually fix it with the server upgrade.

I don't see these items as "just bugs" once they are allowed on the shard auction house - at that point, they become fraud since the financial dynamics change vs. the base game. I bought something as advertised, that is a contract of sorts.

I grow tired of developers and QA teams in my industry, I've been a Unix/Linux admin since 1995, using "bugs" as an excuse for sloppy work and not being held unaccountable for their sloppy work. "Oh, it's a bug..." with a shrug of a shoulder is unacceptable when really it's "I f**ked up and was crappy at my job".

If DDO is holding to a right that they think they can change items purchased on the shard auction house or on the DDO Store whenever they feel like it, then I will simply stop funding them as a company. If they believe it's acceptable that their customers should spend hours researching if an item on the auction house might or might not be a bugged item or might be changed drastically with a later update - then I'll stop funding them as a company.

For me, my time is worth a lot of money - one of the very reasons why I do leverage the shard auction house and DDO store items a lot. I pulled up my DDO store purchase history, it only goes back to Aug 2015. It's over $6,000 between all the accounts I fund [I pay for my sons accounts as well]. I've had a minimum of three VIP accounts since the game was released, as high as five when all my boys were playing. That cost plus the other DDO store purchases I made since it's release probably has my investment well over $12,000 into this game.



Half of the gear isn’t even notable at ML14 and NONE of the gear would be justified at the shard cost at ML14.



What other bugs show up on the auction house or in the DDO store? What other ones involve a financial transaction that then flirts with fraud on their part?

What other bugs allows DDO, if I was to doubt their business integrity, an opportunity to release “bugged” items every other release as to then take advantage of the auction house to drive up revenues where they can then later nerf said items as to keep the “appearances” of avoiding breaking game balance etc? They need to fix the shard auction house as to remove any chance of this being a possibility.

Definitely feel your pain, hope you get some resolution. There are often avenues one can take with the better business bureau or your credit card companies if you feel you've paid for something that was not delivered.

[Phoenicis]

What other bugs show up on the auction house or in the DDO store? What other ones involve a financial transaction that then flirts with fraud on their part?

In case you were unaware, on the shard auction house, it's a player selling items. Not SSG.

SSG has no control over what items are listed, and for what prices.

And they (SSG) have been saying for MONTHS that the no ML wondrous items were not WAI and WOULD be fixed.

I believe the principle that applies here is 'Let the buyer beware'

[Steve_Howe]

In case you were unaware, on the shard auction house, it's a player selling items. Not SSG.

SSG has no control over what items are listed, and for what prices.

And they (SSG) have been saying for MONTHS that the no ML wondrous items were not WAI and WOULD be fixed.

I believe the principle that applies here is 'Let the buyer beware'

This.

[altazar]

In case you were unaware, on the shard auction house, it's a player selling items. Not SSG.

A fallacious argument. The REAL transaction is the "fake currency" called shards. The REAL benefactor is SSG. The items on the auction house are "fake" - they are produced by SSG via their code and as with U36 clearly shows, can be modified by SSG.

SSG has no control over what items are listed, and for what prices.

They certainly do have control over what items can or can not be listed. It's their code, not the players. It's their code that can be modified to allow such filtering as needed.

And they (SSG) have been saying for MONTHS that the no ML wondrous items were not WAI and WOULD be fixed.

Did we get a launcher pop up stating this? Were their pop ups in the auction house for the items? They could of easy created an auction house warning message prior to the full update. Again, they could of also designed the shard auction house from the start to allow them to filter/remove items as needed to deal with things like "bugged" items. They choosed to not do so. Again - the REAL profit center here is the purchasing of shards, the REAL benefactor is SSG. There was only one way of knowing about these "wonderous items" being truly bugged and plans were in the works to nerf them - Lamannia server forums. My son ending up telling me about it after I already did the auction purchases.

I believe the principle that applies here is 'Let the buyer beware'

Again - stop giving SSG/DDO excuses for their **** poor coding, development, communication and qa failures. There are very simple technical fixes to avoid this issue and they've not implemented them nor do I see any plans in the works to do so. And as things stand, as I've pointed out, they truly are the only party that financially gains in real money due to their lack of fixing this issue for the shard auction house.

[altazar]

Also, add on top now their recent practice of doing their annual gifts/etc to be time limited and requiring logins during time period to gain such gifts. One reason I could justify paying for the VIP membership all these years even though I only play for a couple of weeks at a time and then usually have a couple of months downtime is because when I would login I didn't really miss anything or the benefits they handed out to VIP's.

But if they are now gonna require me to login weekly, read forums prior to gaming or "buying stuff on shard auction house", etc... It no longer will fit into my life. It's a game for me on my downtime. It's not here to fulfill hours in an empty life because I have no life outside of living in a parents basement. I just hope it's not lost on SSG/DDO that those of us that are very occassional players but very loyal ones do bring with us a lot of "real cash". It's cheaper for me to spend money to "buy" things vs spending the time like the 'free to play' players do to gain the same things. It's also cheaper for me to spend money to get things that allow me to solo quests vs. spending the time doing pug's or forming strong relationships with a guild.

[Phoenicis]

A fallacious argument. The REAL transaction is the "fake currency" called shards. The REAL benefactor is SSG. The items on the auction house are "fake" - they are produced by SSG via their code and as with U36 clearly shows, can be modified by SSG.


They certainly do have control over what items can or can not be listed. It's their code, not the players. It's their code that can be modified to allow such filtering as needed.


Did we get a launcher pop up stating this? Were their pop ups in the auction house for the items? They could of easy created an auction house warning message prior to the full update. Again, they could of also designed the shard auction house from the start to allow them to filter/remove items as needed to deal with things like "bugged" items. They choosed to not do so. Again - the REAL profit center here is the purchasing of shards, the REAL benefactor is SSG. There was only one way of knowing about these "wonderous items" being truly bugged and plans were in the works to nerf them - Lamannia server forums. My son ending up telling me about it after I already did the auction purchases.



Again - stop giving SSG/DDO excuses for their **** poor coding, development, communication and qa failures. There are very simple technical fixes to avoid this issue and they've not implemented them nor do I see any plans in the works to do so. And as things stand, as I've pointed out, they truly are the only party that financially gains in real money due to their lack of fixing this issue for the shard auction house.

I will first reiterate, 'let the buyer beware'.

Second, seriously, No ML +10 items? that just SCREAMS bug. And SSG/Turbine has a history of nerfing OP items out from under people.

And no, it wasn't 'Just' on the Lam forums, it was on the main forums as well. All over the place right after the 'fix' for being able to craft on the trinkets went thru and broke the ML.

And, for the record, I had one ML1 trinket that was Wis +5 NA+5. Nice, right? Now it's ML14 and useless at that level.

[Miow]

In case you were unaware, on the shard auction house, it's a player selling items. Not SSG.

SSG has no control over what items are listed, and for what prices.

And they (SSG) have been saying for MONTHS that the no ML wondrous items were not WAI and WOULD be fixed.

I believe the principle that applies here is 'Let the buyer beware'

Actually your wrong they could have made those items not auction-able, it is his mistake to think they wouldn't nerf it but their mistake to allow them to be sold in the first place especially once they realized they would change them. Shards involve real money at the end of the day.

The consequences are some people will spend less, i wouldn't want that if i were a business.

[Enoach]

As far as the not knowing about the coming changes, one might look to this thread and note that they were pulled from their end reward lists (Wheloon and Stormhorns). I think a logical progression of "No longer dropping" to "Modifying existing" is pretty linear in my mind. It was also logical to conclude these were not WAI and as things that are in this realm means it is not a matter of "if" but "when".

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ight=wonderous

I am sorry that you spent Astral Shards to purchase these - I myself was fortunate to "find" the ones that I have so I am not in the same situation as you are in. I do understand you feel slighted. That being said I don't think you have enough ground to demand a refund, but I will wish you luck.

To your point about the Shard Auction House I will disagree with you that SSG can be held accountable. They do prevent some items from being Auctioned but in the end each player posts the items at what they think someone will pay and people buy the items based on what they are willing to pay for them. SSG does not set prices and historically has stayed out of Player to Player interactions to the extent that they don't violate the ToS.

[altazar]

I will first reiterate, 'let the buyer beware'. ...... And SSG/Turbine has a history of nerfing OP items out from under people.

"Has a history of nerfing"..and brings me to my issue. I think it's time for me to stop investing in this game and just switch to 'free to play' once my annual VIP memberships turn out. Unless they resolve how the shard auction can handle this "nerfing of items" after a shard purchase, it's not worth buying shards in the first place or even DDO points since I fundamentally disagree with their business practices that allows them to not fix an issue that could be easily solved.

And no, it wasn't 'Just' on the Lam forums, it was on the main forums as well. All over the place right after the 'fix' for being able to craft on the trinkets went thru and broke the ML.

If I have to comb through forum posts and hope a 'bugged' item has been identified prior to doing a shard auction purchase, it's not worth buying shards in the first place. I use my time to play the game and things that allow me to play it the way I want [solo play]. I don't use my spare time in prepartion of playing the game. I'd rather take the 30 min's to run a toon through STK or WW.

[Mglaxix]

does that mean you could buy this epic challenge item it gets nerfed and expect to be compensated for the shards you spent...... I have seen many many many BTC items listed that are not actionable on the shard house ie.... Masters Gift slotted items Challenge gear and many many more


Before you buy anything due diligence is required by the buyer plain and simple spending any amount of money on something that is questionable is and should always be the buyers responsibility. You are usually buying someone's problem they no longer want to deal with.

Perhaps what SSG and you should be asking is why you did not open a ticket bring it to a dev's attention and get a solid answer before purchasing such items with no min level +10 stats then if the dev approved such an item you would have more than enough in my book to demand to be refunded.

Did you buy your house without checking it out or a car without driving it, I kinda doubt it but if you did would you expect the seller to return you money because you found it did not meet your expectations some time later.


I have some ocean front property in Arizona if anyone is interested in bidding on it let me know

[altazar]

As far as the not knowing about the coming changes, one might look to this thread and note that they were pulled from their end reward lists (Wheloon and Stormhorns). I think a logical progression of "No longer dropping" to "Modifying existing" is pretty linear in my mind. It was also logical to conclude these were not WAI and as things that are in this realm means it is not a matter of "if" but "when".

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ight=wonderous

Never ran Wheloon and Stormhorns and I haven't even attempted crafting. Just saw these were a new item called "wonderous" and some crafting was involved to tweak them. On the main server I'm on, over the last two or three months, there would only be a couple of them on the shard auction in a given week. Their "rarity" left me with the impression that their stats probably had to do with the difficulty in the crafting process and rarity of materials/drops - hence, "wonderous". Their buyout prices also strengthen the that impression.

That being said I don't think you have enough ground to demand a refund, but I will wish you luck.

All I have in this negotition is if I'll spend anonther twelve thousand dollars or not on the game in the next couple of years like I have already. I'll take my business else where.

To your point about the Shard Auction House I will disagree with you that SSG can be held accountable. They do prevent some items from being Auctioned but in the end each player posts the items at what they think someone will pay and people buy the items based on what they are willing to pay for them. SSG does not set prices and historically has stayed out of Player to Player interactions to the extent that they don't violate the ToS.

I have no problem with prices being set the way they are - free-market style. I actually thought the prices were set to an appropriate expectation of what these items were at ML1. I was not rippted off when they were at ML1 - it was a good purchase.

Again, my issue is that DDO allows KNOWN bugged items to their team on the auction house or to stay on it. There is no reason why they can't fix this technical issue. They could easily remove, filter, or create warning messages on items in the shard auction house once an item is identified as being "bugged" and will at some point be nerfed. If their response is, "That's what the forums are for..." I reply, "Taking my business else because you have a shady business practice that allows fraud to easily exist. A fraud caused by you, since you program the items and then later modify them. The sellers don't do that, can't do that - only SSG."

Example of what the auction house code do when going to bid on a bugged item:

"Warning - this item has possibly been selected to be modified in upcoming releases. The currently listed stats could change with the future releases, more importantly - the ML might also be adjusted."

[altazar]

Did you buy your house without checking it out or a car without driving it, I kinda doubt it but if you did would you expect the seller to return you money because you found it did not meet your expectations some time later.

Using your analogy, did they sell me a two story house that was actually a two story house when purchase and then showed up two months later and tore off the second roof saying - "We actually intended that house to be a ranch."